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IDemo

(16,926 posts)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:23 AM Jun 2014

Obama nominates fundraiser to Paris post

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama has nominated a big-dollar political fundraiser for the president and the CEO of an economic and political advisory firm, Jane Hartley, to be the U.S. ambassador to France.

Hartley is the CEO of Observatory Group and raised more than $500,000 for Obama's 2012 re-election campaign.

If confirmed by the Senate, she would replace Charles Rivkin. He became assistant secretary of state for economic and business affairs in February.

The White House announcement came Friday as Obama was in France for the 70th anniversary of D-Day.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Obama-nominates-fundraiser-to-Paris-post-5534582.php

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Obama nominates fundraiser to Paris post (Original Post) IDemo Jun 2014 OP
If I were French, I'd be insulted Demeter Jun 2014 #1
You're not serious, are you? MADem Jun 2014 #16
Shirley Temple Actually did work and was qualified (go figure...Ronnie screwed up) Demeter Jun 2014 #17
Shirley was a conservative Republican and a Big Money Donor. MADem Jun 2014 #33
"they sent Caroline to Japan hoping she'd get radiation poisoning." TeamPooka Jun 2014 #43
"Joseph P. Kennedy and the Creation of the SEC (1934-35)" ucrdem Jun 2014 #24
"Set a thief to catch a thief." FDR. MADem Jun 2014 #37
Reagan made John Gavin the Ambassador to Mexico. displacedtexan Jun 2014 #32
It always been part heaven05 Jun 2014 #2
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #6
yeah, yeah heaven05 Jun 2014 #10
So what? IDemo Jun 2014 #8
when it changes as you would wish heaven05 Jun 2014 #9
Not just money; fame AND connections. Don't you think it makes sense for a President to MADem Jun 2014 #19
from wikipedia Demeter Jun 2014 #22
Yes, it does, actually! She was at a party with Henry Kissinger--that's how everyone gets jobs? MADem Jun 2014 #40
I found this.. Cha Jun 2014 #52
If she knows her Le Pens from her Sarkosys from her Hollandes, she's doing better than MADem Jun 2014 #54
Precisely! Oh but, "she raised money for Cha Jun 2014 #58
Funny how it has been OK for every President in the modern 20th Century to put fundraisers in MADem Jun 2014 #59
any excuse to knee jerk. Cha Jun 2014 #60
I'm shocked, shocked frazzled Jun 2014 #3
And what has happened to the strength of our institutions during that period? newthinking Jun 2014 #7
You think this hasn't ALWAYS been the case? NYC Liberal Jun 2014 #18
Pretty much so. Will the French go on strike and start rioting over this? freshwest Jun 2014 #47
meritocracy theaocp Jun 2014 #4
Paris is a plum assignment. Beacool Jun 2014 #5
Joe had already been inaugural chair of the SEC (1932-35) ucrdem Jun 2014 #11
Well, he did score points for having as his mistress the top actress of her time. Beacool Jun 2014 #23
The guy she murders in Sunset Blvd is named Joe. ucrdem Jun 2014 #29
You know what? Beacool Jun 2014 #30
He even had her on the boat with his wife and kids, the basstid! No shame, really! MADem Jun 2014 #41
Turns out she's worked in other Dem administrations: ucrdem Jun 2014 #12
Not that it matters but the U.S. does pay all entertainment expenses. former9thward Jun 2014 #14
Some expenses. But this is Paris. ucrdem Jun 2014 #15
See the link at post 20--there's a reason why rich people are given these jobs; poor folk MADem Jun 2014 #21
See #24 for a note on Joe Kennedy, founding chair of the SEC. ucrdem Jun 2014 #25
And THAT was a "Fox Watching the Henhouse" appointment, too. MADem Jun 2014 #27
Apparently it's more fun to be outraged... greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #28
Precisely. MADem Jun 2014 #31
They have to know how to entertain without apparent effort and in a grand style. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #38
I know for a FACT that wealthy ambassadors supplement the entertainment funds. MADem Jun 2014 #20
As someone directly affected by this kind of appointment, I'm pissed DFW Jun 2014 #13
I'm not pissed--I think it's a good deal all around. MADem Jun 2014 #26
That's NOT the way it worked with my friend, but he was the exception, not the rule DFW Jun 2014 #35
I wouldn't let it trouble me. If the Number Two was an idiot as well, I'd be concerned. MADem Jun 2014 #42
Far be it from me to disagree with you or DFW, but that pic is LOL! freshwest Jun 2014 #45
It's the perfect one to be snarky about him, without being "OTT"--you could always MADem Jun 2014 #49
Yup! But if confronted with orders from the reichwing, I'd use the other. They'd never catch on! freshwest Jun 2014 #50
I recognize and support you as one of the adults in the room, DFW Demeter Jun 2014 #34
It is still a rather diverse group, it seems to me DFW Jun 2014 #36
Is this person unqualified, in your opinion? CTyankee Jun 2014 #53
This is such a NON-STORY. I don't even know why it was posted at DU. Discussionist might be better. dballance Jun 2014 #39
As someone else pointed out the NONSTORY ... GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #46
Why is this reported as if it is unusual? Every president does this. 6000eliot Jun 2014 #44
It may, as Rick Santorum said, have something to do with the ...uhhh.. unnnnh ... blaaaaaaa.....!!!! MADem Jun 2014 #55
+1000! 6000eliot Jun 2014 #57
according to some republican I was arguing with on quora, redruddyred Jun 2014 #48
Does she speak French...??? Historic NY Jun 2014 #51
Yes, she does. nt MADem Jun 2014 #56
What would Don Siegelman think? Octafish Jun 2014 #61
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
1. If I were French, I'd be insulted
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:30 AM
Jun 2014

A nation should be given a diplomat, not a bag woman, for such a post.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
16. You're not serious, are you?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:20 PM
Jun 2014

Everyone knows that the key ambassadorships go to fundraisers--how do you think Caroline Kennedy (NOT a diplomat, never held elective office, and not a terribly inspiring public ummmmmm, aaaaaaah, like, unnnh, public speaker), got to go to Japan? How do you think Shirley Temple got not one, but TWO, ambassadorships? How do you think JFK's dad, the bootlegger and actress-chaser, got to go to the Court of St. James?

The person who does the WORK is the deputy--they're career civil service and they are great--knowledgeable, smart, able to handle anything and everything from a presidential visit during a key local holiday to a noncombatant evacuation operation of US citizens. The principal diplomats, though, they're cronies and they always have been. Some are better than others, but "eh"--those are bought-and-paid-for gigs.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
17. Shirley Temple Actually did work and was qualified (go figure...Ronnie screwed up)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:23 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:54 PM - Edit history (1)

my suspicion is they sent Caroline to Japan hoping she'd get radiation poisoning.

As for Joe Kennedy, way before my time.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
33. Shirley was a conservative Republican and a Big Money Donor.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:27 PM
Jun 2014

She bought the gigs, make no mistake.

Here's a revealing look at the process: http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/plum-posts

It's one of the few instances where rich so-and-so's "give back." I say let them.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
24. "Joseph P. Kennedy and the Creation of the SEC (1934-35)"
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:59 PM
Jun 2014

Kennedy was one of five SEC commissioners appointed by FDR and founding chair:



SEC Commission with Senior Staff: Paul Gourrich (front row, second from left); Robert E. Healy (front row, fourth from right); Joseph P. Kennedy (front row, third from right); James M. Landis (front row, far right); George C. Mathews (front row, second from right); Kemper Simpson (back row, fourth from right)

http://www.sechistorical.org/museum/galleries/kennedy/


He was appointed ambassador to Britain four years later.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
37. "Set a thief to catch a thief." FDR.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:36 PM
Jun 2014

That appointment was PAYBACK for a campaign debt--he put a One Percenter in charge, and he knew it. For Joe's part, he knew that if he were to put his bootlegger/whoremonger reputation in the rear view mirror, he HAD to do a good job:

On July 1, 1934, FDR discharged his campaign debt by appointing Kennedy the first chairman of the newly formed Securities & Exchange Commission. Kennedy’s charge was to regulate stock markets and purge them of the very practices that he had exploited. The press was outraged: “like putting the fox in the hen house.” In private, Roosevelt rejoined, “set a thief to catch a thief.” Confounding critics, Kennedy organized the commission brilliantly, appointing a high-quality staff and carefully mediating between the zealous business-hating New Deal reformers and the legions of Roosevelt haters in the business community.

The success added to his stature as one of the most influential men in America. He became as close to Roosevelt as anybody came to that master manipulator of men. Unlike FDR’s many sycophants, Kennedy always gave the president a straight answer, whether he liked it or not. When FDR admonished him for an open liaison, Kennedy said he would terminate that relationship when FDR halted his affair with his secretary, Marguerite “Missy” LeHand. In 1935, Kennedy stepped down as SEC chair and campaigned for FDR in the 1936 election, writing a book, “Why I’m for Roosevelt.” In 1937, he was named ambassador to the Court of St. James.





http://www.pittsburghquarterly.com/index.php/Historic-Profiles/money-power-and-purpose.html

Joe had the idea that his son was going to be President of the US, even way back then--he just didn't think the son would be Jack. But make no mistake, that was a crony appointment, by a guy who didn't "deserve" the job.

And his ambassadorship was payback for campaigning for FDR yet again.

Response to heaven05 (Reply #2)

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
10. yeah, yeah
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:00 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sun Jun 8, 2014, 01:58 PM - Edit history (2)

hope and change in more of a politically substantial manner than any republican would have led us in. That's what also?!?! The system is corrupt, not necessarily the politician.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
8. So what?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:42 AM
Jun 2014

Yes, this has been the standard test for diplomatic appointments for a very long time. It's one of the biggest ways for the American political system to shout to the world that money talks here. Instead of choosing people based upon an extensive background in the diplomatic corps or with worthwhile experience in working with a country in some way which would add to their knowledge and qualifications, it's a given that donors will get the post.

That something has "always been the case" does not exempt it from a critical look.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
9. when it changes as you would wish
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:57 AM
Jun 2014

it changes and I have no argument with what you say. It has been our example to tout wealth as a prime indicator of our so called democracy for decades and decades. Money trumps all in our political system. Until the influence of the wealthy is minimalized in our political system, this type of corruption will remain. I don't like it, but it's a fact of life.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
19. Not just money; fame AND connections. Don't you think it makes sense for a President to
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:38 PM
Jun 2014

nominate a FRIEND to these posts? And who is a better friend than a fundraiser? They've obviously got the POTUS's best interests at heart, and they have delivered in the past. The FRIEND will be honest with the POTUS, and the POTUS can speak frankly with the friend. What's the problem, really?

Every ambassadorship of any substance is like this--and the locals LIKE it because they know they aren't talking to some "functionary" with a particular skillset and "country knowledge," they are talking to someone who has the EAR of the President. That's the purpose; that's the utility of the person.

The DEPUTY ambassador is the person with the diplomatic skills, the country knowledge, the language talent, etc. That's the person the locals go to if they need to do serious business that has to do with simple nuts and bolts. But, if they want a word with the POTUS by proxy, they go to the ambassador.

The system works. The reason it works is because the person the POTUS has chosen, out of friendship and loyalty, can get a call through to the Oval Office if needs must, without having to go through STATE.


This is movie star John Gavin. He was ambassador to Mexico, appointed by Reagan. He didn't have any diplomatic experience.


Here's Shirley "animal crackers in my soup" Temple Black--Gerald Ford sent her to Ghana, and GHW Bush sent her to Czechoslovakia. She had no diplomatic experience when Ford tapped her. She was a rich, conservative Republican, though.

If you want someone with "extensive diplomatic experience" you talk to Number 2 in the pecking order. If you want someone who will get your point across to the POTUS, you talk to the fundraiser/movie star/celebrity/businessperson/tycoon that POTUS has sent along as his rep.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
22. from wikipedia
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:52 PM
Jun 2014

In January 1950, Temple met Charles Alden Black, a WWII United States Navy intelligence officer and Silver Star recipient who was Assistant to the President of the Hawaiian Pineapple Company. Conservative and patrician, he was the son of James B. Black, the president and later chairman of Pacific Gas and Electric, and reputedly one of the richest young men in California. Temple and Black were married in his parents' Del Monte, California, home on December 16, 1950, before a small assembly of family and friends.

The family relocated to Washington, D.C., when Black was recalled to the Navy at the outbreak of the Korean War. Temple gave birth to their son, Charles Alden Black, Jr., in Washington, D.C., on April 28, 1952. Following the war's end and Black's discharge from the Navy, the family returned to California in May 1953. Black managed television station KABC-TV in Los Angeles, and Temple became a homemaker. Their daughter Lori was born on April 9, 1954. Lori went on to be a bassist in the grunge band the Melvins. In September 1954, Charles, Sr. became director of business operations for the Stanford Research Institute and the family moved to Atherton, California. The couple remained married for 54 years until his death on August 4, 2005, at home in Woodside of complications from a bone marrow disease....

Following her venture into television, Temple became active in the Republican Party in California. In 1967, she ran unsuccessfully in a special election in California's 11th congressional district to fill the seat left vacant by the death of eight-term Republican J. Arthur Younger from leukemia. She ran as a conservative and lost to law school professor Pete McCloskey, a liberal Republican who was a staunch opponent of the Vietnam War....


Temple served on numerous boards of directors of large enterprises and organizations including The Walt Disney Company, Del Monte, Bank of America, the Bank of California, BANCAL Tri-State, Fireman's Fund Insurance, the United States Commission for UNESCO, the United Nations Association and the National Wildlife Federation....

Temple was extensively involved with the Commonwealth Club of California, a public-affairs forum headquartered in San Francisco. She spoke at several of the meetings through the years and served as its president in 1984.

Temple got her start in foreign service after her failed run for Congress in 1967, when Henry Kissinger overheard her talking about Namibia at a party and was surprised that she knew anything about it. She was appointed Representative to the 24th United Nations General Assembly by President Richard M. Nixon (September – December 1969), and was appointed United States Ambassador to Ghana (December 6, 1974 – July 13, 1976) by President Gerald R. Ford. She was appointed first female Chief of Protocol of the United States (July 1, 1976 – January 21, 1977), and was in charge of arrangements for President Jimmy Carter's inauguration and inaugural ball. She served as the United States Ambassador to Czechoslovakia (August 23, 1989 – July 12, 1992), having been appointed by President George H. W. Bush. She was the first and only female US ambassador to Czechoslovakia.

Temple was a personal witness to two crucial moments in the history of Czechoslovakia's fight against Communism. Temple was in Prague in August 1968 as a representative of the International Federation of Multiple Sclerosis Societies and was actually going to meet up with Czechoslovakian party leader Alexander Dubček on the very day that Soviet-backed forces invaded the country. Dubček fell out of favor with the Soviets after a series of reforms known as the Prague Spring. Temple, who was stranded at a hotel as the tanks rolled in, sought refuge on the roof of the hotel. It was from here she saw an unarmed woman on the street gunned down by Soviet forces, a sight which stayed with her for the rest of her life.

Later, after she became ambassador to Czechoslovakia, she was present during the Velvet Revolution, which brought about the end of Communism in Czechoslovakia. Temple played a critical role in hastening the end of the Communist regime by openly sympathizing with anti-Communist dissidents and later establishing formal diplomatic relations with the newly elected government led by Václav Havel. She took the unusual step of personally accompanying Havel on his first official visit to Washington, riding along on the same plane...


THAT DOESN'T SMACK OF QUID PRO QUO, NOW, DOES IT?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
40. Yes, it does, actually! She was at a party with Henry Kissinger--that's how everyone gets jobs?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jun 2014

Nooooo...that's not how professional diplomats are hired! However, rich people wanting a bit of excitement and purpose and "position" in their lives...well, there ya go!

How do you think she GOT that UN posting from Nixon? Because he just, ya know, liked her? Naaah--here's how it went down:

Black indeed came back, but perhaps not in the way she initially imagined. In 1968, she went on a European fundraising tour for the Nixon presidential campaign. In 1969, President Nixon appointed her to the five-member delegation to the UN General Assembly, where she earned praise for speaking out on issues such as environmental problems and refugee crises. She later served as US ambassador to Ghana from 1974 to 1976, President Gerald Ford's chief of protocol for the State Department from 1976 to 1977, and ambassador to Czechoslovakia in 1989, serving there during the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe.



http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/02/shirley-temple-dead-85-politics-congress-vietnam-nixon


And, you DO know that an AMBASSADORSHIP, under the Nixon administration, went for a minimum of a cool quarter million dollars in campaign contributions? All he gave her was a lousy UN delegation slot--and she pulled in far more than that! Of course Shirley had some serious "draw" and name recognition; she could make that amount with a hand tied behind her back:

Seven years after that, she ran unsuccessfully for Congress in California but stayed in politics, helping raise more than $2 million for President Richard Nixon's 1972 re-election campaign.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/11/us-shirley-temple-idUSBREA1A0LD20140211

The bottom line is this: Shirley Temple Black's diplomatic career was founded on her early screen career coupled with her enormous wealth and prodigious ability to fundraise. THAT is why she danced in the rarefied air where she could meet Henry Kissinger at a dinner party; that's why she delivered over two million bucks to the GOP in just one election cycle. Money talks--no, it SCREAMS. Now, she may have done well at her jobs--and good for her--but if she had been Shirley Temple Black, unknown but clever graduate of a doctoral program at one of America's finest universities, with the VERY SAME knowledge, the VERY SAME political view, and the VERY SAME physical appearance, but without the bankroll, she would not have been given the time of day.

Money talks. She had it. She knew how to raise it. Quid pro quo, indeed. And that's the name of that tune!!

Cha

(295,929 posts)
52. I found this..
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 05:38 AM
Jun 2014
"A senior White House official insisted that Ms. Hartley was well qualified for the position because of her role as the chief executive of economic consulting firms for the past two decades and “her depth of knowledge of French political and economic policies.” The White House official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that Ms. Hartley speaks conversational French."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/07/world/europe/obama-nominates-ambassadors-to-france-and-ireland-jane-hartley-kevin-omalley.html?_r=0

And, her predecessor went on to become assistant sec of state for.. from the OP..

"If confirmed by the Senate, she would replace Charles Rivkin. He became assistant secretary of state for economic and business affairs in February."

Pretty sure President Obama is going to send an Ambassador to France who knows what she's doing I don't care how much money she's raised for our Campaign.

Some here would rather the republicons be the only ones who raise money.. it looks like. It's unfortunate it has to be this way but money helps counteract the Tsunami of Koch Lies.

Thanks for all your logic, MADem~ to Jane Hartley~bless her fundraising heart~

MADem

(135,425 posts)
54. If she knows her Le Pens from her Sarkosys from her Hollandes, she's doing better than
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:50 PM
Jun 2014

90 percent of the USA!!! And if she's suave enough to entertain with grace and charm, so that people WANT to come to her shindigs, that's good too (a lot of intelligence work goes on at those things).

MADem

(135,425 posts)
59. Funny how it has been OK for every President in the modern 20th Century to put fundraisers in
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jun 2014

ambassadorial posts, but when OBAMA does it, it's suddenly a topic of conversation and pouting criticism on a Democratic message board.

Gotta wonder ....

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
3. I'm shocked, shocked
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:34 AM
Jun 2014

Never has this happened, except for


Pamela Harriman 1993–1997
Felix Rohatyn 1997–2000
Howard H. Leach 2001–2005
Craig Roberts Stapleton 2005–2009
Charles Rivkin 2009–2013.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
7. And what has happened to the strength of our institutions during that period?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

Your info looks to me like evidence of the growing power of the influence of big money over recent decades?

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
5. Paris is a plum assignment.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:57 AM
Jun 2014

He'll just be one of the many donors who have been appointed to that ambassadorship. It stinks, but that's a political reality that has been going on for many years. How else did Joe Kennedy become ambassador to Britain in the 1930s?

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
11. Joe had already been inaugural chair of the SEC (1932-35)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:01 AM
Jun 2014

and first head of the newly organized Maritime Commission (1935-38) when he was appointed ambassador so there was a little more to it than ill-gotten bootleggin' dirty Hollywood money.


p.s. yes the last part is

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
23. Well, he did score points for having as his mistress the top actress of her time.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:57 PM
Jun 2014

Gloria Swanson.





ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
29. The guy she murders in Sunset Blvd is named Joe.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:11 PM
Jun 2014

I always thought Billy Wilder was kind of an asshole.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
41. He even had her on the boat with his wife and kids, the basstid! No shame, really!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jun 2014

Plus, he ruined her career--she was truly "seduced and abandoned." He promised to manage her career, instead he made it worse. Eventually he dumped her. In the meantime, he waved her in front of his wife in the rudest way--no wonder poor Rose was such a miserable person.

Not a nice guy.

Like Howard Hughes and others, Kennedy was not immune to Hollywood’s feminine charms. Kennedy’s took the form of a very public liaison with reigning movie queen Gloria Swanson. Not yet 30, Swanson decided to produce her own pictures. Independent of his several day jobs, Kennedy became her banker, advisor and lover. They produced the big budget flop “Queen Kelly.” Joe complained that he had lost his shirt ($1 million) on the film. However, most of the money was lost by Swanson because the astute Kennedy had secured his investment with a cut of Swanson’s future (profitable) vehicles. You might say that Joe Kennedy screwed Gloria Swanson literally and figuratively. Their affair lasted long after their business arrangement. She was often a guest in the Kennedy home. Rose was a friendly and gracious hostess, and the children were smitten by the Hollywood star.

http://www.pittsburghquarterly.com/index.php/Historic-Profiles/money-power-and-purpose/All-Pages.html

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
12. Turns out she's worked in other Dem administrations:
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:25 AM
Jun 2014

from a Forbes bio:

From 1977 until 1981, Ms. Hartley worked in the Carter Administration at the White House as Senior Assistant in the Office of Public Liaison and as Director, Congressional Relations, Department of Housing and Urban Development.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/jane-hartley/


Presumably she also speaks and reads at least a little français. Not that I'm leaping to her defense but the thing about the $$ is that in this position she's going to need it as there's a lot of entertaining involved and I doubt the USG is going to spring for every croissant and coiffure not to mention her couture.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
21. See the link at post 20--there's a reason why rich people are given these jobs; poor folk
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:49 PM
Jun 2014

don't have the dough to entertain properly and the American people would scrutinize every dime if it came out of the official coffers.

The link provided at post 20 is this one:

http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/plum-posts

MADem

(135,425 posts)
27. And THAT was a "Fox Watching the Henhouse" appointment, too.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:08 PM
Jun 2014

That unrepentant bootlegger got rich selling an illegal product and was one of the few bastards that didn't take a complete bath during the great Depression!

That wasn't a "Gee, what a good guy" posting, that was a crony appointment at its best...or worst, depending on perspective!

greatauntoftriplets

(175,698 posts)
28. Apparently it's more fun to be outraged...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:08 PM
Jun 2014

than to acknowledge how the world operates. This is true of virtually every country.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
31. Precisely.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:20 PM
Jun 2014

Other nations do it, too--they choose someone who is LOYAL to the leader, who knows how to charm, who has a certain draw because they're either famous, or connected, or whatever. And money always helps, because without it, you can't throw a good party.

A great example from abroad is Bandar Bush. A smart guy, make no mistake, but he didn't get any of his postings because he was the smartest guy in the room. He got his postings because he was the child of a Royal and a concubine, basically, and he had the sunniest personality going--he was a charmer from infancy. Plus, he was "down with the brown" and he made the Saudis look way more diverse than they actually were. Anyone talking to him KNEW that if they wanted to get a message to the King of SA, he was the conduit.

When he left his ambassadorship, he basically ran the Saudi national security-intel game.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,698 posts)
38. They have to know how to entertain without apparent effort and in a grand style.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:41 PM
Jun 2014

That's especially true in Paris, where style is of the utmost importance. They also need the life experience not to be intimidated by grand houses (the Paris embassy is gorgeous) or dealing with significant household staff. And, as you say, elsewhere in this thread, it's the deputy who does the heavy lifting. The ambassador represents his/her country and it helps them do their job to have friends in high places.

Also, the historic statistics back the contention that Obama isn't the first president to do this.

And historically, about 55 of those spots have gone to "political" appointees — wealthy donors or top fund-raisers. These are usually gigs in nice, stable countries like France or Italy. (By contrast, countries that require more diplomatic finesse — Egypt, say — tend to get more experienced "career" appointees to head up their embassies.)


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/07/want-to-be-an-ambassador-in-paris-thatll-be-1-1-million/

Bandar Bush is a great example. So is Perle Mesta from ages ago.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
20. I know for a FACT that wealthy ambassadors supplement the entertainment funds.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:47 PM
Jun 2014

They'll also shell out to refurbish their quarters.

http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/plum-posts


In 1993, Pamela Digby Churchill Hayward Harriman shipped her renowned art collection, including Van Gogh’s White Roses (which she had received from her last husband, Averell Harriman), to the American ambassador’s residence, on Rue du Faubourg St.-Honoré in Paris. Days later the English-born socialite, famed for her meticulous elegance and her unparalleled ability to charm powerful men, arrived to take her position as the ambassador to France, appointed by President Clinton. Except perhaps among the Democratic Party insiders for whom she had raised millions and plotted campaign strategy, Harriman, who always kept the embassy awash in fresh orchids, was known more for her hosting abilities than for her deftness in trade talk and diplomacy.

In the aftermath of the killing of Ambassador Christopher Stevens in Ben­ghazi, Libya, last September, it’s clearer than ever that the title "ambassador" connotes two very distinct jobs, with two wholly different candidate pools. When it comes to posts in Central America, Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, or Haiti, deep ­pockets and chumminess with the commander-in-chief are incidental, at most, and usually irrelevant. (China and Mexico can fall into that category too, depending on the political climate.) Career diplomats are sent to those places, and they receive hardship allowances and danger pay to live in often perilous conditions and keep tabs on impending political uprisings, human rights abuses, and potential threats to America and its interests. Then there are the jobs in Western Europe — particularly France, Italy, and the United Kingdom — and other always friendly places such as New Zealand, Japan, and many Caribbean countries, where maintaining the status quo, through attending social functions and cultural events, is the bulk of the job description. These ambassadorships are hung like bait for wealthy and influential friends of would-be presidents.

"Cash for cachet” has been going on since this nation's early days, when the Founding Fathers appointed well-heeled friends to overseas posts. Since then influential nondiplomats have regularly been rewarded with the best embassy jobs. FDR made Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. ambassador to the U.K.; former child movie star Shirley Temple Black served in two ambassador posts under two different presidents; playwright, congresswoman, and socialite Clare Boothe Luce (wife of publisher Henry Luce) was ambassador to Italy under Eisenhower; and actor John Gavin served as ambassador to Mexico under Ronald Reagan. But more than fame, it’s campaign donations that can seal an appointment. In 1971, President Richard Nixon told White House chief of staff H.R. Haldeman, “Anybody who wants to be an ambassador must at least give $250,000.” Haldeman agreed, according to released recordings, stating, “I think any contributor under $100,000 we shouldn’t consider for any kind of thing."

In the wake of Watergate, President Jimmy Carter signed the 1980 Foreign Service Act into law, which states that an appointed or assigned chief of mission should know a country’s language and have a deep “knowledge and understanding of the history, the culture, the economic and political institutions, and the interests of that country and its people.” The act also says, “Contributions to political campaigns should not be a factor ..... It’s a piece of legislation that no president since has had any qualms about ignoring. In part this is because wealth is an essential requirement for being an ambassador, at least in such high-profile posts as London and Paris. Campaign donations aren’t the end of the spending spree; they’re just the beginning. Not only do ambassadors abandon their private sector professions to serve, they inevitably use personal accounts for entertaining, decorating, and dressing like a diplomat, because Congress appropriates enough funds for embassies to operate, period — not operate stylishly. Pamela Harriman reportedly spent between $120,000 and $180,000 a year entertaining in Paris on behalf of her country.....

DFW

(54,058 posts)
13. As someone directly affected by this kind of appointment, I'm pissed
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:27 AM
Jun 2014

Calls for a career diplomat (and a good one, not a State hack) are correct. Just because Bush Lite appointed an total oaf, with a wife who kept harassing a diplomat friend of mine (ambassador from another NATO country) because he didn't have a picture of Bush on his piano in his Embassy Residence. He explained that his piano only had photos of those heads of state under he had served personally, which is why there was a pic of him and Bill Clinton. My friend happens to be the finest Foreign Service Officer of ANY country (including ours, I'm sad to say) I ever met, and I cringed when he told me of the Bush hack's wife harassing him to put a photo of Bush on the piano.

I realize it is SOP to appoint political friends and big fundraisers to posts like Paris, London and Berlin, but I think of guys like Phil Lader, who did us proud as our ambassador to Britain under Clinton, and get steamed when I think of how often the people in these posts are NOT qualified to assume them. In the case of unqualified hacks, the underlings do all the work, of course, but the ambassador to a post like that is not, or shouldn't be, a ceremonial job.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
26. I'm not pissed--I think it's a good deal all around.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:04 PM
Jun 2014

The country gets an ambassador with the President's ear, and we save money by letting rich bastards pick up the tab for a change. See: http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/plum-posts

Your friend should have stooped to conquer, and put THIS pic of Bush on the piano, perhaps with a tiny little annotation at the bottom, saying, "In honor of (name of busybody)." Further, he could take the thing off the piano and shove it in a drawer any time she wasn't in his house. This is how you say FUCK YOU with a smile:



Or this one:



See? Subtle, but snarky.

If your friend wants to stay "politics free" in his work, he needs to get out of the diplomatic corps, at least the upper reaches. That IS what functionaries have to deal with--it goes with the job. It's a milieu rife with politics, and every four years, there's a rumble in the jungle as a consequence of the Presidential election. It's just the nature of the beast.

And here's the real bottom line--when STATE needs to resolve an issue with a country that has a "money" ambassador, who gets the call? The principal, or the deputy? Answer--the latter. The deputy fixes the situation and briefs the principal. The principal pretends that they're the big cheese, but anyone who MATTERS knows better. No, the deputy doesn't get the glory, but the deputy isn't spending tens of thousands at a pop to make the USA look good either.

That's just how it works.

DFW

(54,058 posts)
35. That's NOT the way it worked with my friend, but he was the exception, not the rule
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:32 PM
Jun 2014

When there was a virus outbreak in Zaire, where he had been ambassador, he left Paris to go down and help the victims. He wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty, and he sure as hell didn't have to--his uncle was prime minister of his country at the time. He was a case where the ambassador was from the foreign service BEFORE his uncle was head of government, and happened to get the Washington (and later Paris) spots while his uncle was PM.

If the ambassador is a political appointment, I'm not saying it is always a mistake, but the appointment has to be someone capable of at least representing the country admirably. Bush appointed buffoons to both London and Paris. His appointment to the Court of St. James came because the donor liked horses, and Cheney knew the Queen liked horses. Nothing more important to discuss with the British government than horses, anyhow, is there? You can make a political appointment without embarrassing the country. I know Clinton's ambassador to Romania. He was a political appointment, but he took the job seriously, did what he did to represent the USA, learned to speak some Romanian, and has kept in touch with his Romanian friends, going back there usually twice a year. Bush's ambassadors went to the races and demanded to put photos on pianos in reception rooms on the Rue Faubourg Ste. Honoré.

T'aint the same.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
42. I wouldn't let it trouble me. If the Number Two was an idiot as well, I'd be concerned.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:47 PM
Jun 2014

But I have dealt with obtuse ambassadors, myself, and the best way to handle them is to Go Around Them. And that is easily done, because the more hubris they have, the more inattentive they often are. They're too busy worrying about themselves to worry about anything that can be made to sound a bit boring.

Like I said, that piano picture thing could have been easily managed--were it me, I'd pick the 2nd photo, more formal, but makes him look just a hair drunk. OR, I'd take every frigging picture off the piano when I knew that The Nitwit was on the guest list, and replace it with a giant bowl of expensive flowers.

Rome-London-Paris are the Big Three for Big Money, and this applies no matter who the POTUS is. The staffs at these places are generally outstanding, even when the principal is a moron, and the local national hires are a treasure trove of background. And I'm not saying Romania does not matter, but it's not one of those Big Three joints.

It is what it is--other countries do it too. The ambassadors on Embassy Row in DC are a damn sight richer and more worldly than their counterparts in some shit outpost in the middle of nowhere, and those DC denizens have an inside track with their leaders, too.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
49. It's the perfect one to be snarky about him, without being "OTT"--you could always
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

act like you thought it made him seem more "approachable" when in actual fact he looks like a total moron!

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
34. I recognize and support you as one of the adults in the room, DFW
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jun 2014

Sometimes I think DU is full of snarky teenagers who can't see beyond "what is" to "what might be", if a little brain and brawn, ethics and manners were applied.

DFW

(54,058 posts)
36. It is still a rather diverse group, it seems to me
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jun 2014

But the types you describe are hardly scarce, I agree.

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
53. Is this person unqualified, in your opinion?
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 09:59 AM
Jun 2014

I'm not arguing for the SOP but given the scheme of things, is she going to make anything worse? I think it would be great to have people like Lader, but if not, will this appointment be an out and out disaster?

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
39. This is such a NON-STORY. I don't even know why it was posted at DU. Discussionist might be better.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:44 PM
Jun 2014

I wish all of you who want to do nothing but bash Obama for everything he does that might be the same as every other President has done would just go on over to Discussionist. That seems to be quite a popular sport there.

Here at DU we're supposed to be supportive of Democrats in order to get more of them elected. Continuously bashing our Democratic President doesn't help achieve that goal. Sure, you don't have be a robotic zombie and agree with everything he does. Say, the drones and attendant kill-list for example. However, this is such a non-story it doesn't deserve any attention on a pro-Dem board like DU much less the amount it has gotten here.

6000eliot

(5,643 posts)
44. Why is this reported as if it is unusual? Every president does this.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 04:35 PM
Jun 2014

And, this is not even the first time the media had tried this with President Obama. Before he was president, I NEVER saw this as a headline.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
55. It may, as Rick Santorum said, have something to do with the ...uhhh.. unnnnh ... blaaaaaaa.....!!!!
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:54 PM
Jun 2014

But hey, one never knows, do one?

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
48. according to some republican I was arguing with on quora,
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:32 PM
Jun 2014

we appoint business people for political posts because they are the most qualified. ostensibly this is also why we chose cheney, according to him.

I wonder how prevalent this pov is.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
61. What would Don Siegelman think?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:21 AM
Jun 2014

Guy languishes in federal pen on a lie cooked up by Rove, "political favors."

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