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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 02:47 PM Jun 2014

Van Hollen: Clerks issuing licenses to gay couples could be charged

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Madison — Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said Thursday that same-sex couples who have wed in recent days are not married in the eyes of the law and that county clerks issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples could be prosecuted.

"You do have many people in Wisconsin basically taking the law into their own hands and there can be legal repercussions for that," Van Hollen said. "So, depending on who believes they're married under the law and who doesn't believe they're married under the law may cause them to get themselves in some legal problems that I think are going to take years for them and the courts to work out."

He said he did not believe same-sex couples could be prosecuted but that county clerks risked that happening.

"That's going to be up to district attorneys, not me," he said. "There are penalties within our marriage code, within our statutes, and hopefully they're acting with full awareness of what's contained therein."

-snip-

Read more: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/van-hollen-clerks-issuing-licenses-to-gay-couples-could-be-charged-b99289932z1-262892731.html

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Van Hollen: Clerks issuing licenses to gay couples could be charged (Original Post) DonViejo Jun 2014 OP
what a despicable SOB.... n/t hlthe2b Jun 2014 #1
I'll add idiot to that. n/t Mr.Bill Jun 2014 #2
And fool. nt Raphael Campos Jun 2014 #31
Thank god he's keeping us safe from teh gays. Orrex Jun 2014 #3
Wisconsin USED to be a wonderful state 1Greensix Jun 2014 #4
Agreed. I went to school there when Shalala was chancellor, and it was just starting closeupready Jun 2014 #5
Wisconsin USED to be a wonderful state AlbertCat Jun 2014 #16
it was until 2000 PatrynXX Jun 2014 #24
The last time I was across the border it was way too political CatholicEdHead Jun 2014 #25
There is a meaness to Walker Republicans style of 'governing' riversedge Jun 2014 #28
The AG Vaon Hollen is just as mean and evil. TxVietVet Jun 2014 #36
I moved to Wisconsin and worked there for 20 years before Gov. Wanker got in. TxVietVet Jun 2014 #35
Yup! This is why I say I live in Mordor! It's a red Repuke hell and they are destroying our state! hue Jun 2014 #47
Asshole. blackspade Jun 2014 #6
+1 nt Raphael Campos Jun 2014 #32
Buncha sorry-ass mean sonofableeps... shenmue Jun 2014 #7
I'm guessing that by the time they got to trial the law will probably be overturned. n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2014 #8
The Courts Have Already Struck Down The Law DallasNE Jun 2014 #9
If he won't recognize the law of the land, wouldn't that disqualify him from the job? nt silvershadow Jun 2014 #10
It was AG Holder who recently emphasized discretion in enforcing laws. I'll post the link and some 24601 Jun 2014 #23
Van Hollen's argument is melm00se Jun 2014 #11
No real crime in Wisconsin? Mz Pip Jun 2014 #12
The AG must have gone to a very poor law school......... Swede Atlanta Jun 2014 #13
Thank you for that law lesson. I hope someone sends your (or an equally savvy post) to the clerks... Moonwalk Jun 2014 #19
No he's pandering to his base warrant46 Jun 2014 #29
Lol. Iggo Jun 2014 #41
Very true!! RW Catholic Church is a huge force for evil control here! hue Jun 2014 #48
He knows..... cynzke Jun 2014 #37
so when the courts fo against you azurnoir Jun 2014 #14
I see it as a threat. riversedge Jun 2014 #21
Yesterday Van H. told the adminstrative arm riversedge Jun 2014 #15
Nearly all Wisconsin counties allowing marriage licenses for same-sex couples riversedge Jun 2014 #17
+1 nt Raphael Campos Jun 2014 #39
I would consider it amazing that many counties have already issued licenses. LiberalFighter Jun 2014 #42
kick & recommended. William769 Jun 2014 #18
Attorneys general who do not recognize court decisions could be charged KamaAina Jun 2014 #20
Local resident to file lawsuit to stop Milwaukee County same-sex weddings riversedge Jun 2014 #22
So Braun thinks his civil rights are being violated because gay couples are marrying. Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #26
We have a lot of nuts since tea party Walker became our gov. riversedge Jun 2014 #27
Mr. Braun....... Swede Atlanta Jun 2014 #38
He doesnt' have standing Bartlet Jun 2014 #44
There is no stay in effect Gothmog Jun 2014 #30
And there also is no injunction in effect. So there is nothing yet to be stayed. When Judge 24601 Jun 2014 #34
For pity's sake! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2014 #33
The Scopes Monkey Trial was about a public employee breaking a bad law. I say, "Go for it." Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #40
Can you please add (Wisconsin) in parenthesis to the title? Thanks (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #43
what did Van Hollen say? mackerel Jun 2014 #45
Correct me if I am wrong. Half-Century Man Jun 2014 #46
Why does he hate marriage? Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2014 #49
K&R for telling it like it is in WI hue Jun 2014 #50
it is no longer a gay rights issue, it is a human rights issue. olddad56 Jun 2014 #51
Unfortunately Lefta Dissenter Jun 2014 #52
is the law same sex or same gender? greymattermom Jun 2014 #53
It's like they love being complete assholes... EEO Jun 2014 #54

1Greensix

(111 posts)
4. Wisconsin USED to be a wonderful state
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jun 2014

I was born and raised in Wisconsin so I do know something about the state, even though I haven't lived there for nearly 50 years. It used to be a wonderfully friendly and openly progressive state. People got along with each other and cities like Madison looked like parks with houses dropped in. No fences, and clean yards.
Today, I wouldn't live there on a bet. Republican conservatives are destroying HOPE for the average person. Their governor is one of the biggest assholes in the whole country, and overshadows their other big asshole, Senator Paul Ryan. Conservatives there are hoping for a Civil War so they can use all the guns and ammo they've been hoarding. Their militias are nuttier than their Tea Party members, but racism is still at the heart of their insanity.
It Used to be a great place to live. But, that was fifty years ago.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
5. Agreed. I went to school there when Shalala was chancellor, and it was just starting
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

to turn GOP when I left. Things went downhill from there, and I'd not even consider going back.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
16. Wisconsin USED to be a wonderful state
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jun 2014

Hey.... you get what you voted for....

SERIOUSLY.... doncha hate that stupid meme? No, we who vote against stupid Teabaggers DON'T get what we voted for, and sometimes the voting ain't so upfront and true. I'm from North Popelina (formally North Carolina) and even the dumbass Teabaggers aren't getting "what they voted for" after being bombarded with millions of dollars of lies and twisted ads.

NC used to be a much better (not perfect by any sans tho') state too.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
24. it was until 2000
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:55 PM
Jun 2014

I left for Iowa for whatever reason. MN and WI I like IL I like was never big on IA. too political. now towns along the border with MN, IA or IL not too bad but further you go east the colder it gets. (ahem colder as in no souls there. )

CatholicEdHead

(9,740 posts)
25. The last time I was across the border it was way too political
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:31 PM
Jun 2014

And in a real cold way to toe the line or else. Even as conservative as North and South Dakota are, it is different than Wisconsin now, Wisconsin's form is outright mean and spiteful. I could feel the racial tension in the Milwaukee suburbs that was worse than I saw down south (LA, MS, AL).

TxVietVet

(1,905 posts)
36. The AG Vaon Hollen is just as mean and evil.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:15 AM
Jun 2014

He first ran on a platform on how he was going to take Jim Doyle's "corrupt" administration and send them all to jail. He convicted one person from Doyle's term and it got thrown out of the court on appeal and the judge who presided over the appeal boxed Van Hollen's ears pretty good calling him a very incompetent lawyer.

Wisconsin changed as bad as Texas did. I left Texas working construction and didn't recognize how bad Texas changed until I returned after 22 years gone.

TxVietVet

(1,905 posts)
35. I moved to Wisconsin and worked there for 20 years before Gov. Wanker got in.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:43 AM
Jun 2014

I left in 2010, right after Wanker was elected.
Conservanazi hate radio blasts the constant lies and conservative propaganda 24/7 by some of the biggest idiots in Wisconsin.

My co-workers would spew out the same propaganda all day, chapter and verse.

Many, many white folks in Wisconsin are now very racists. Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha had big ghettoes when I left. They just keep alienating people against minorities.

In my twenty years there working union construction, the Milwaukee area went from very pro-union to very pro-conservanazi.

Many of my former co-workers are nothing more than conservanut tools.

hue

(4,949 posts)
47. Yup! This is why I say I live in Mordor! It's a red Repuke hell and they are destroying our state!
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 04:45 PM
Jun 2014

shenmue

(38,501 posts)
7. Buncha sorry-ass mean sonofableeps...
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014

Grrr.



Can't they just let people live? What is this, the Salem Witch Trials again?

DallasNE

(7,392 posts)
9. The Courts Have Already Struck Down The Law
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jun 2014

And the courts have cleared same sex marriages to start. Here the AG seems to be saying that while the law has been struck down the penalties within the law are still in effect. Hopefully the next step will be a cease and desist order against the AG.

24601

(3,940 posts)
23. It was AG Holder who recently emphasized discretion in enforcing laws. I'll post the link and some
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:48 PM
Jun 2014

of his words.

http://thehill.com/regulation/administration/202932-holder-claims-vast-amount-of-discretion-in-enforcing-law

“There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has — and, more specifically, that an attorney general has,” Holder responded. “But that discretion has to be used in an appropriate way so that your acting consistent with the aims of the statute but at the same time making sure that you are acting in a way that is consistent with our values, consistent with the Constitution and protecting the American people.”

Substitute any governor for the President and any state AG for AG Holder.

melm00se

(4,973 posts)
11. Van Hollen's argument is
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:27 PM
Jun 2014
She (U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb) has not yet entered an injunction instructing public officials what to do about her finding.


Mz Pip

(27,403 posts)
12. No real crime in Wisconsin?
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jun 2014


More fear mongering from the right. I am so sick of these self righteous twits.
 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
13. The AG must have gone to a very poor law school.........
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 04:29 PM
Jun 2014

When a federal judge issues a ruling that a state law is unconstitutional and does not issue a stay, a state and it's employees must comply with the judge's decision. The state can appeal and even ask for an emergency stay but that does not invalidate the judge's ruling.

This AG must have done law school by correspondence maybe with the University of Uzbekibeikstan or something but any law student who has understood anything during time in school will know these basic facts.

If your anti-gay marriage statute is invalidated then any law that provides for prosecutions for marrying someone who is gay is also invalidated. Period, end of sentence. There is no gray area here.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
19. Thank you for that law lesson. I hope someone sends your (or an equally savvy post) to the clerks...
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:29 PM
Jun 2014

He's clearly trying to scare the clerks into stopping, knowing that's the only way to put the breaks on this. It has all the desperation of a two-year old throwing a temper tantrum.

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
29. No he's pandering to his base
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 07:07 PM
Jun 2014

The homophobic catlick church in Wisconsin who gave millions of $$$ to pass the abominable voter sponsored amendment in the first place.

cynzke

(1,254 posts)
37. He knows.....
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:18 AM
Jun 2014

that is why he throws out the caveat that the DA's should prosecute clerks. Van Hollen knows full well that the DA's won't actually do that.

riversedge

(69,713 posts)
15. Yesterday Van H. told the adminstrative arm
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:01 PM
Jun 2014

to go ahead and process the clerk's marriage certificates. they had been on hold for some reason.Today he threatens them The man is out of control and schizophrenic. Where is @GovWalker??

riversedge

(69,713 posts)
17. Nearly all Wisconsin counties allowing marriage licenses for same-sex couples
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:04 PM
Jun 2014

So Van H. passes the buck to county DA's!! who will be targeted??

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/262901321.html


Nearly all Wisconsin counties allowing marriage licenses for same-sex couples


By Sharif Durhams of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2014 12:05 p.m.



A number of media outlets, including the Journal Sentinel, have been calling county clerks throughout the state to see which are allowing same-sex couples to get marriage licenses.

In the latest count, the Wisconsin State Journal reports that as of midday Thursday clerks in 60 of Wisconsin's 72 counties are issuing such licenses. The Associated Press, meanwhile, reports that all but nine of the counties are issuing the licenses.

The AP tally also notes that at least 573 licenses have been issued to gay couples so far.

LiberalFighter

(50,491 posts)
42. I would consider it amazing that many counties have already issued licenses.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:54 PM
Jun 2014

It speaks volumes as to the extent it is in Wisconsin. It is not an isolated situation which many possibly thought.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
20. Attorneys general who do not recognize court decisions could be charged
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:30 PM
Jun 2014

with malfeasance, or if a court order has been issued, with contempt.

riversedge

(69,713 posts)
22. Local resident to file lawsuit to stop Milwaukee County same-sex weddings
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jun 2014

The crazies are on the loose over this issue in Wisconsin!

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/06/resident-says-he-will-file-lawsuit-to-stop-milwaukee-county-same-sex-weddings/#.U5obWOuf9L0.twitter

Local resident to file lawsuit to stop Milwaukee County same-se

Thursday, June 12, 2014
16 Comments

MILWAUKEE — A Wisconsin man says the the legal process is moving too slowly so he’s filing a lawsuit to stop same-sex weddings in Milwaukee County, claiming that his civil rights are being violated because gay couples are marrying.
Bob Braun

Bob Braun

WISN-TV reports that Bob Braun of West Allis, Wis., told a same-sex couple who were obtaining their marriage license at the Milwaukee County Clerks office on Tuesday, that he was there to obtain the necessary paperwork to sue the county clerk and the county executive for issuing same-sex marriage licenses.

“We’re filing a lawsuit against the people who are allowing you and telling them to stop doing it,” Braun told Kari George and Joan Fecteau, who had brought their daughter and friends to witness their wedding.

Braun doesn’t want to wait for the federal courts to rule, and says he’ll file his lawsuit Thursday asking a Milwaukee County judge to stop the weddings.x weddings





Louisiana1976

(3,962 posts)
26. So Braun thinks his civil rights are being violated because gay couples are marrying.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:40 PM
Jun 2014

That man is certifiably nuts.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
38. Mr. Braun.......
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:47 AM
Jun 2014

Not only are you a bigot but a stupid one at that.

A U.S. District Court Judge has issued a ruling that the Wisconsin state's ban on same-gender marriage is unconstitutional - i.e. it is not consistent with the U.S. Constitution.

No state judge or court, even the state supreme court, has the authority to stop weddings or overturn the District Court judge's ruling. It is now out of the state's hands from that perspective.

The state may appeal the decision to the appropriate Circuit Court even asking for an emergency stay. If the appeal is declined or the emergency stay not granted the state may appeal to the SCOTUS.

But nothing a state court does now, even the state Supreme Court, can affect the ruling of the U.S. District Court judge now.

Bartlet

(172 posts)
44. He doesnt' have standing
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 05:42 PM
Jun 2014

You don't just get to file a laws suit because you don't like something, you have to demonstrate some harm. There is no harm this dimwit has suffered except to his infantile fragile right wing turd ego. This dolt can pretend to file all he want's, it will go exactly no where.

24601

(3,940 posts)
34. And there also is no injunction in effect. So there is nothing yet to be stayed. When Judge
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jun 2014

Crabb completes her action and issues an injunction, the actual order to do or not do something, the AG will appeal and request a stay of the injunction pending that appeal. If she denies the appeal, he will request the circuit court to stay her injunction pending that appeal.

Ultimately all these cases will reach the SCOTUS which has yet to rule if defining marriage is a state power or not. If they rule that it is, and all the previous state laws and constitutional provisions are reinstates, then there is the question of the status of any marriage conducted in the interim.

This has the potential to be a very messy case - that SCOTUS could have avoided with a definitive ruling in the Prop 9 case rather than a narrow ruling on standing.

On the other hand, it will be a trial lawyers bonanza.



Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
46. Correct me if I am wrong.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:52 PM
Jun 2014

I thought if a law was found to be unconstitutional, it invalidated the law for the entirety of it's existence. It was never a valid law to begin with, so it is now officially recognized as a waste of paper and time. The law never had legally enforceable power, despite actions of any executive branch of government in the past.

Evidentially Van Hollen went to the same law school the Circuit Court Judge who ordered the destruction of evidence in Wisconsin, Mt Moneymaster School of Law, in Draconiania Wi.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
51. it is no longer a gay rights issue, it is a human rights issue.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jun 2014

What ever happen to a persons right to the pursuit of happiness. Everyone has the right to marry the person the love. It doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to the pursuit of happiness. It might conflict with someone's bigoted and archaic religious beliefs, but those beliefs are personal and have nothing to do with how another person chooses to spend their life with.

greymattermom

(5,751 posts)
53. is the law same sex or same gender?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:13 AM
Jun 2014

If it's same sex, a chromosome test should be required before a marriage license is issued. Please pass this on to all of your tea party friends. They need to take up this cause if they're serious about this.

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