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OneCrazyDiamond

(2,029 posts)
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:11 AM Jun 2014

Smith & Wesson: Americans are buying fewer guns

Source: CNN

Smith & Wesson posted disappointing earnings and a weak forecast for one simple reason: Americans are buying fewer guns.

Shares of the gunmaker plunged 12% in premarket trading Friday as it dawned on investors that the once high-flying gun industry is coming down to Earth.

shares dropped more than 12% before the bell

The gun industry has experienced an intense run-up in demand over the last couple years, fueled by concerns of more rigorous gun restrictions in the wake of President Obama's reelection and a series of mass shootings including the Sandy Hook massacre in Newtown, Conn.

Read more: http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/20/news/companies/smith-wesson-earnings/



69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Smith & Wesson: Americans are buying fewer guns (Original Post) OneCrazyDiamond Jun 2014 OP
Possibly because their key market keeps killing itself... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #1
If only their key market didn't take so many innocents along with them. nt valerief Jun 2014 #4
Would that be too much to ask? Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #6
No kidding. Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #59
Math not your strong suit? nt hack89 Jun 2014 #47
Let's go with that... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #62
You seem to think their key market is diminishing hack89 Jun 2014 #63
Here's the problem Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #65
Lets look at the individual rates. hack89 Jun 2014 #66
I'm sure that a parent.... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #67
Which has has nothing to do with your original point. hack89 Jun 2014 #68
"Think of it as evolution in action." truebluegreen Jun 2014 #52
+1 Pakhet Jun 2014 #57
I wonder if this means the gun manufacturers will, paradoxically, tell the NRA to dial Aristus Jun 2014 #2
S&W reports a significant increase in handgun sales hack89 Jun 2014 #18
Uh-oh. Another national disaster is looming. That'll pick up gun sales. nt valerief Jun 2014 #3
As long as Diane Feinstein keeps quiet hack89 Jun 2014 #16
Or another shooting spree sakabatou Jun 2014 #46
Unlike most products guns pretty much last forever. former9thward Jun 2014 #5
My cousin hunts with a 100-year-old rifle Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #7
I have a 1889 Savage .303 that works great. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #21
Let's see...Cost per pound on that venison would be.... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #29
Plus 130 bucks for the tag... AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #30
Don't forget the beer (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #31
0$ for me. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #37
Our camp is reasonably dry... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #39
Not sure I buy the saturation argument. Wasn't the market pretty saturated 20 years ago too? MillennialDem Jun 2014 #53
Well, yes there are always new generations coming up. former9thward Jun 2014 #54
There are more millennials than baby boomers. In fact we will make up a MillennialDem Jun 2014 #56
It wasn't "saturation" so much as it just is a wave losing its steam Cosmocat Jun 2014 #55
Not if the old guns are no longer "fashionable" NickB79 Jun 2014 #64
careful laundry_queen Jun 2014 #69
They can now release the new models so the gun hoarders have to upgrade. Sunlei Jun 2014 #8
You can't buy a gun online, never could. former9thward Jun 2014 #10
walmart does everything these days! Sunlei Jun 2014 #17
Except for Curio & Relic license holders who can indeed get older guns thru the mail/online...n/t EX500rider Jun 2014 #38
which is a type of FFL Duckhunter935 Jun 2014 #51
I thought a lot of these gun companies NewJeffCT Jun 2014 #9
Besides saturation. ChazInAz Jun 2014 #11
NRA! Time to get busy ginning up more fear! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #12
Wayne will give DiFi a call and all will be good. nt hack89 Jun 2014 #14
so you're using DU to bash Dianne Feinstein from the right? CreekDog Jun 2014 #32
No - just pointing out what drives gun sales hack89 Jun 2014 #33
Dianne Feinstein is nowhere in that article CreekDog Jun 2014 #34
"But Obama failed to get a bill through Congress that would have placed restrictions on these guns" hack89 Jun 2014 #36
There are only so many TeaBags with only so much money n/t broadcaster75201 Jun 2014 #13
"S&W reported a hefty increase in handgun sales" hack89 Jun 2014 #15
That may be due to the fact that everybody who ever considered that he might want ... spin Jun 2014 #19
It was a great marketing strategy by the gun manufacturers, via the NRA PeoViejo Jun 2014 #40
Yup. It worked so well the market dried up. (n/t) spin Jun 2014 #43
yea warrior1 Jun 2014 #20
That's because S&W is garbage. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #22
Sig Saur opinion? PatrynXX Jun 2014 #24
No experience with them, so I can't say. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #25
My model 629 would beg to differ. nt Llewlladdwr Jun 2014 #60
also could be that all the slowly disappating gun owners PatrynXX Jun 2014 #23
this right here frylock Jun 2014 #27
Did you actually read the OP? The part that talked about 30% jump in handgun sales? hack89 Jun 2014 #35
Proof of evolution. Intelligence comes with progress. onehandle Jun 2014 #26
Considering you didn't fully read the OP's links hack89 Jun 2014 #41
He'll come around if Apple produces a gun. nt Union Scribe Jun 2014 #44
Need another "gun ban" media push to drive sales back up pediatricmedic Jun 2014 #28
Gun sales may have hit saturation, but do not overlook ammunition sales SkatmanRoth Jun 2014 #42
Stop. Stop. Your plight will make us all cry. (nt) Paladin Jun 2014 #45
I hear sweetapogee Jun 2014 #48
I Have a 1950s S&W Snubnose Wolf Frankula Jun 2014 #49
Maybe the price on the C.O.R.E. will come down ileus Jun 2014 #50
They've squeezed all the mileage they could out of their Blue_Tires Jun 2014 #58
At work I saw a new 25 shot semi-auto shot gun Omaha Steve Jun 2014 #61

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
6. Would that be too much to ask?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:20 AM
Jun 2014

My wife has said this on many occasions when there's a mass murder/suicide. Just kill yourself and leave everybody else out of it.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
63. You seem to think their key market is diminishing
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:19 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:08 AM - Edit history (1)

Because of gun related violence. Since gun deaths have been steadily decreasing while the population has been increasing, your math is doesn't work.


I know you didn't really mean what you said - gun discussions are driven by snark and emotions where rational thought sometimes takes a back seat. I just contributed some snark of my own.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
65. Here's the problem
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jun 2014

First of all, snark is supposed to be amusing. So there's that.

The second is the fact that gun deaths aren't declining. Since the late 1990's (after the spike in homicides earlier in the decade) the rate of gun deaths in the U.S. settled back into a persistent rate of about 10.3 per 100,000 in population. The raw number of gun deaths has actually increased -- which is why even with a growing population, the rate has remained around 10.3.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states (note that the figures come from the CDC).

So actually, the math works pretty well.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
66. Lets look at the individual rates.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:25 AM
Jun 2014

gun homicides, handgun homicides, long gun homicides, gun accidents, all down.

Long gun suicides steady

Handgun suicides, gun suicides (other), gun homicides (other) up

What you have pointed out is a mental health issue - if suicide rates had fallen the same as homicides and accidents, the overall rate would be much lower. Remember that two thirds of gun deaths are suicides.

Are you saying that their key market is suicide prone? Maybe I misunderstood your point.


Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
67. I'm sure that a parent....
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:31 PM
Jun 2014

who is washing what's left of their kid's cerebral cortex off his bedroom wall will take great comfort in knowing that the rate of long gun homicides has gone down.

Aristus

(66,096 posts)
2. I wonder if this means the gun manufacturers will, paradoxically, tell the NRA to dial
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:13 AM
Jun 2014

down the Rambo rhetoric for once. Sounds like the arms-dealers' branding is being damaged due to their products doing exactly what they were designed to do...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
18. S&W reports a significant increase in handgun sales
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:04 AM
Jun 2014

which means that people are buying for self defense. Which means you will see more and not less Rambo rhetoric. Which is a shame.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
5. Unlike most products guns pretty much last forever.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:19 AM
Jun 2014

The last gun I bought was about 20 years ago. I know I will never buy another gun for the rest of my life. At some point the market gets saturated.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
7. My cousin hunts with a 100-year-old rifle
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:21 AM
Jun 2014

Has to do his own loads because they stopped manufacturing that particular ammo about twenty years ago. But the rifle is in perfectly good working order.

I think most of the sales in the last twenty years have been people who already owned one firearm, going out and purchasing their second, third, fourth...

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
21. I have a 1889 Savage .303 that works great.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jun 2014

Costs about 20 bucks every time I fire it, but hey, it's a museum piece you can still take a deer with.

(they stopped making ammo for it in the 20's, and British .303 doesn't fit.)

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
29. Let's see...Cost per pound on that venison would be....
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:32 PM
Jun 2014

With a price per round that high, it definitely encourages good marksmanship!

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
37. 0$ for me.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:38 PM
Jun 2014

I don't go with people who do, either. Too easy to have a fuckup. Hunting is Serious Business(TM), and I don't have time to be managing other people's recreational inebriation at the same time.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
39. Our camp is reasonably dry...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:15 PM
Jun 2014

Is that like "sort of pregnant"? We typically have a a little wine with dinner (my in-laws are Italian), and then we do "shooters for the shooter" doing a shot for whomever got a deer that day.

I suppose that sounds like a lot if you're used to none at all, but it's really not a rowdy camp in the least. Everyone is in the bunk by 9:30.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
53. Not sure I buy the saturation argument. Wasn't the market pretty saturated 20 years ago too?
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:36 PM
Jun 2014

I get that people who are 40 or older are probably relatively less likely to buy a gun. Those 40 and up probably already have a gun if they're ever going to own one. The prime market for new gun buyers would be those 18-34 or so (ie Millennials) and there are more 18-34 year olds now than there were 20 years ago. Sure some of people my age and younger will buy used guns or get inherited/gifted guns, but wasn't that the case 20 years ago too?

Of course this discounts collectors and those gun buyers who need to have the latest and greatest model.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
54. Well, yes there are always new generations coming up.
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:49 PM
Jun 2014

But they are not as big as the 'baby-boom' generation which I think is saturated. This is problem not only for gun manufacturers but other products which tend to last a long time like houses.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
56. There are more millennials than baby boomers. In fact we will make up a
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:48 PM
Jun 2014

plurality of the electorate in 2016 or 2020.

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
55. It wasn't "saturation" so much as it just is a wave losing its steam
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:58 PM
Jun 2014

my inlaws, real good people, but NRA card carrying rural types, when Sandy Hook hit were all agitated that there was going to be all this new gun legislation and went out and got AR-15s, all of them, cause in their minds it was going to be this great thing that would soon lose the right to have, even if they probably were never going to go out and get one before Sandy Hook.

Combine this with the usual bump in sales with a democratic president, and it is more like people going to a food bar and gourging themselves to the point where they can't eat any more.

NickB79

(19,114 posts)
64. Not if the old guns are no longer "fashionable"
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:36 AM
Jun 2014

Purely anecdotal, but most of my coworkers who are 20-30 yr old are gravitating towards semi-automatic rifles instead of "old-fashioned" bolt actions, pumps ore lever actions. And since I work in a factory located in the Midwest, staffed largely by guys with high school diplomas, virtually everyone there owns guns, hunts, etc.

A gun purchased 20 years ago might be perfectly serviceable if properly cared for, but when it's owner decides to sell it, the younger generation looking for new guns of their own will turn up their noses at it in favor of an AR or AK variant because they've become convinced that you can't be a bad-ass without a fully tricked out tactical weapons system. The used gun racks at Cabela's are filled with bolt action deer rifles gathering dust.

I've literally seen a group of guys in their mid-20's laugh at by a friend who brought his dad's old .30-30 lever action rifle to the shooting range when they were all carrying new, semi-auto guns. He looked really uncomfortable, and I noticed no one shot the .30-30 the entire time they were there. It's almost like a form of peer pressure among the younger gun owning crowd at work.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
69. careful
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 03:25 PM
Jun 2014

or the gun manufacturers will start using planned obsolescence in gun manufacturing. (I wonder what part of a gun would be okay to 'break' after 5 years?)

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
8. They can now release the new models so the gun hoarders have to upgrade.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:23 AM
Jun 2014

Walmart used to be the largest gun sellers in the USA.

Are they still selling guns online or did that stop last year?

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
10. You can't buy a gun online, never could.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:30 AM
Jun 2014

A gun can be ordered online but the gun will go to a FFL holder. You have to physically go to the FFL holder and get a background check before picking it up.

NewJeffCT

(56,827 posts)
9. I thought a lot of these gun companies
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:30 AM
Jun 2014

have been having record profits - you know, the annual "buy all your guns now before Obama bans them" rush?

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
12. NRA! Time to get busy ginning up more fear!
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:37 AM
Jun 2014

Sales are slipping!

You push your consumers to buy and buy and buy, but unless you're selling something that is consumed, eventually you hit market saturation. My question would be, 'How are ammunition sales doing?'

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
34. Dianne Feinstein is nowhere in that article
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:33 PM
Jun 2014

you're just attempting to bash her from the right as often as you can in this thread.

you think you're clever.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
36. "But Obama failed to get a bill through Congress that would have placed restrictions on these guns"
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:37 PM
Jun 2014

Come on now, you are smarter than this. You know that an AWB was DiFi pet project.

spin

(17,493 posts)
19. That may be due to the fact that everybody who ever considered that he might want ...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:08 AM
Jun 2014

a firearm bought one or more in the last couple of years.

After the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy there was a lot of talk about passing strong gun control including another assault weapons ban.

The sale of firearms and ammo absolutely skyrocketed at that point. There were long lines at gun shows and the shelves were bare in gun stores. You had to get on a waiting list to buy many common firearms and ammo.

Obviously many people were concerned that draconian gun laws would pass through Congress and be signed by the President.

Fortunately I predicted that strong gun control laws would never pass in a Republican control House. I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised when they couldn't even pass in a Democratically controlled Senate.

Therefore I didn't buy any new firearms at that time. The prices were too inflated because of the demand. In a year or so, many of these firearms will be a great bargain when the owners who rarely use them will be willing to sell them. I may decide to buy some at that time.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
40. It was a great marketing strategy by the gun manufacturers, via the NRA
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 06:19 PM
Jun 2014

Be afraid, buy a Gun.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
24. Sig Saur opinion?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:45 AM
Jun 2014

dad loves his and then the M400 zzzz brother nah he built his own AR-15. much heavier. doesn't feel like a toy gun.. brother is also a better teacher on how to shoot guns.. like don't aim at anything you don't intend to kill. Which he scolded me once for doing. not with the AR-15

So what does dad do when he gets his M400 (AR-15) he aims it at my brother. Oh hello X_X I guess my brother figured out what dad is. There's a name for them. Tact tard Wannbe Soldier X_X hey dad was in the national guard but I don't wanna be anywhere near him when he's shooting..

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
25. No experience with them, so I can't say.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:47 AM
Jun 2014

For pistols, my preference is Springfield. Rifles... anything but Olympic Arms. Every fifth employee on their assembly line is actually an angry beaver.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
35. Did you actually read the OP? The part that talked about 30% jump in handgun sales?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jun 2014

the panic buying for rifles is over but handgun sales are steadily increasing. I really question the notion that there are fewer and fewer gun owners.

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
26. Proof of evolution. Intelligence comes with progress.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:12 PM
Jun 2014

Or vice-versa.

Am I implying that dumber people are obsessed with guns?

You bet your ass I am.

Please alert, gungeoneers.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
41. Considering you didn't fully read the OP's links
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 08:00 PM
Jun 2014

Before offering your opinion, perhaps you should lay off judging other people's intelligence. Your track record is certainly not Mensa quality.

SkatmanRoth

(843 posts)
42. Gun sales may have hit saturation, but do not overlook ammunition sales
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 08:45 PM
Jun 2014

The purchase of bullets is still outstripping production. Even with a three box per person limit, it is still impossible to find 22 long rifle. For the folks that hand load, the components for .45 ACP are not to be found. Primers are at a premium.

sweetapogee

(1,168 posts)
48. I hear
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:39 PM
Jun 2014

That the smokeless powders used by all pistol and shotgun handloaders has been, and still is in very high demand and hence not easy to buy. Not available.

Wolf Frankula

(3,595 posts)
49. I Have a 1950s S&W Snubnose
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:10 AM
Jun 2014

It is in excellent shape and I don't need another pistol. The Wife has a vintage 1960s Walther. Our rifle is older than I am and is in excellent shape. Our newest weapon, (now 20 years old) is a reproduction matchlock musket. We don't need any more guns.

Sorry S&W, shan't be a customer any time soon.

Wolf

ileus

(15,396 posts)
50. Maybe the price on the C.O.R.E. will come down
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:29 AM
Jun 2014

650 for a 5" poly gun is just dumb. I don't want to shell out 650 bucks then turn around and spend 450 on an optic.

Now if they'd come down 100 bucks that would be just enough motivation to pick one up.

I'm in the market for a double duty handgun, one that can be a fun target/plinker at the range and still be a good night stand pistol.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
58. They've squeezed all the mileage they could out of their
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jun 2014

"Obama's coming for their guns" -fear campaign....

Omaha Steve

(99,073 posts)
61. At work I saw a new 25 shot semi-auto shot gun
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 10:12 PM
Jun 2014

About $850.

Gun makers need a higher wage to sell more gns. But then some say let the kids eat mac & cheese, so I can make my firearm payments.

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