Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:25 PM Jun 2014

Obama orders review of pesticides' effect on bees

Source: Phys.org

The White House on Friday ordered environmental regulators to review the effect that pesticides may be having on bees and other pollinators that have suffered significant losses in recent years.

Environmental advocates welcomed the plan but said it did not go far enough, noting that the European Union has already banned three common pesticides, known as neonicotinoids, on the basis that they were making bees sick.

Honey bees contribute $15 billion in value to US crops annually, and have suffered severe losses in recent years due to a phenomenon known as colony collapse disorder.

Scientists still do not fully understand why various types of bees and butterflies are dying, but research points to a combination of stresses, including parasites, pathogens and exposure to pesticides widely used in farming.

Read more: http://phys.org/news/2014-06-obama-pesticides-effect-bees.html

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Obama orders review of pesticides' effect on bees (Original Post) n2doc Jun 2014 OP
Hope it's not too late. sarge43 Jun 2014 #1
Agree. And how long will this "review" take? Auggie Jun 2014 #2
This is just Starcats Jun 2014 #28
they'll bounce back. Javaman Jun 2014 #14
Depends upon where and when they swarm sarge43 Jun 2014 #16
What part of the country do you live in? Javaman Jun 2014 #37
Central NH sarge43 Jun 2014 #38
Yeah, to put it very mildly, your winters are a lot more intense than ours. :) Javaman Jun 2014 #40
Intense is one word for them sarge43 Jun 2014 #41
Wel that is good news. Of course, Monsanto will do everything it truedelphi Jun 2014 #43
It's also HERBICIDES that need to be checked out. Specifically "Round Up". Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #3
Round up does not hurt insects per say ..... it can reduce their needed food and nesting places Botany Jun 2014 #9
As someone who researched the Pesticide/Herbicide situation and their harmful truedelphi Jun 2014 #21
I do restoration ecology as part of my business Botany Jun 2014 #36
Oh yeah, right.Fracking is friggin' truedelphi Jun 2014 #44
BTW, Roundup is not merely Glyphosate - it is truedelphi Jun 2014 #25
Very interesting info - thanks klook Jun 2014 #35
Klook, i found the information you provided to be very pertinent and truedelphi Jun 2014 #42
The honeybee is going extinct lovuian Jun 2014 #4
Honey bees are not actually the most serious problem. yellowcanine Jun 2014 #30
LOL! Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #55
K&R DeSwiss Jun 2014 #5
I've got virtually no fruit on any of my fruit trees, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #6
It really is very scary. n/t truedelphi Jun 2014 #24
lets see ... who will benefit from the death of bees .... could it be leftyohiolib Jun 2014 #7
Some corporation already invented fake mechanical bees. glinda Jun 2014 #11
let me guess. the right-wing is crapping themselves over this and why it's bad leftyohiolib Jun 2014 #8
neonicotinoids is the stuff to look at Botany Jun 2014 #10
And we are using MORE neonicotinoids because of GMO crops, not less. pnwmom Jun 2014 #12
You can bet Monsanto is already trying to make a GMO bee dpbrown Jun 2014 #13
THANK YOU Dopers_Greed Jun 2014 #15
this is part of administration's broader initiative to restore all animal pollinators MBS Jun 2014 #17
Excellent! You should make an OP about this. arcane1 Jun 2014 #31
About a decade after the alarm bells started ringing. Better late then never, I guess? Exultant Democracy Jun 2014 #18
Recommend. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #19
A GMO Bee? Gamecock Lefty Jun 2014 #20
Monsanto deserves all the hate they get. And more. arcane1 Jun 2014 #32
Do you think we believe that Monsanto roody Jun 2014 #52
bout damn time!!!!!!! heaven05 Jun 2014 #22
He's only a year behind dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #23
oh I know,trite, but heaven05 Jun 2014 #26
You're being kind lark Jun 2014 #27
Well the UK does not have the magnitude of a totally obstructionist parliment/congress to deal with. hue Jun 2014 #34
Just another distraction . . . Richard D Jun 2014 #29
Bee-nghazi? arcane1 Jun 2014 #33
I was . . . Richard D Jun 2014 #46
Wise. arcane1 Jun 2014 #47
"Monarch butterfly decline linked to spread of GM crops" Trillo Jun 2014 #39
...even if that is true, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #56
Shoudn't this have been done 5-10 years ago? AAO Jun 2014 #45
It was. And last year. And the year before. Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #57
I'm glad this is finally being addressed. A Little Weird Jun 2014 #48
So am I, but will it actually get addressed? .. olddad56 Jun 2014 #49
Actually, he is not addressing the problem at all. Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #58
Maybe he can study the effect of depleted uranium on children while he's at it. grahamhgreen Jun 2014 #50
non sequitur much? Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #54
Bees,Butterflies and birds packman Jun 2014 #51
Meh! Ordering yet another unfunded review. This will be the third in three years!!! Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #53

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
1. Hope it's not too late.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:32 PM
Jun 2014

This waiting until the eleventh hour is stupid and dangerous. This problem has been known for several years now.

Starcats

(19 posts)
28. This is just
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jun 2014

a postponement mechanism. Whenever there is no intentions to mitigate a crisis govt. orders another study. Methinks Monsanto, Bayer, etc., are calling the shots. The obvious - Govt. is p'owned by major corporations.

Javaman

(62,442 posts)
14. they'll bounce back.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:40 PM
Jun 2014

I keep bees and they are quite remarkable little producers of little bees.

My opinion is this: if they ban this pesticide (as they should), allowing the bees to over populate a hive would make them swarm (which is how they grow hive population). if enough bee keepers do this, I believe in about a year, the bee population, if allowed to, would return to normal.

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
16. Depends upon where and when they swarm
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:50 PM
Jun 2014

For the past ten years, at least one of our hives swarm (some times more. You mean you haven't heard my husband's howls of pain?). However, no feral hives have shown up yet.

If our bees make a break for it any time after June, they won't be able to build up enough to survive the winters

In more temperate climates they probably have a fighting chance.

That 'cide has to be banned. We did it with DDT and the world wagged on.

Javaman

(62,442 posts)
37. What part of the country do you live in?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 04:23 PM
Jun 2014

I'm in Texas. Swarming in June isn't that bad down here.

I had a hive swarm twice in a week in August a few years ago. that really hit me hard, but because are winters are pretty mild compared to the rest of the country, they were fine and had enough honey in reserve.

I just remember my GF saying to me, "oh look, they're swarming again". LOL

I became very philosophical after that. LOL

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
38. Central NH
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 04:38 PM
Jun 2014

By the end of October the girls are in lock down until the beginning of April. If we can bag the swarm and get them established in a new hive, their chances are pretty good. Otherwise, howls of pain.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
43. Wel that is good news. Of course, Monsanto will do everything it
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:03 PM
Jun 2014

Can, as will Bayer and the other companies, from allowing any ban of any pesticides to occur.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
9. Round up does not hurt insects per say ..... it can reduce their needed food and nesting places
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:51 PM
Jun 2014

One of the biggest threats to monarchs, honey bees, native pollinators, and other
things in the environment is invasive non native species and round up aka Glyphosates
are a very useful tool in ecological restorations.


truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
21. As someone who researched the Pesticide/Herbicide situation and their harmful
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:06 PM
Jun 2014

Effects, I came to the conclusion that the whole "invasive species" situation is simply a way for the Big Pesticide manufacturers to take over the ecology movement and hit fragile eco systems with their poisons.

In many ways, how is it possible to restore an environment to the way it should be? We don't have thousands of wild animals per square block of acreage peeing and pooping. We don't have Native people creating fish ponds every so many quarter miles.

In some more enlightened areas of the world, people actually band together and hand pull invasive species. (For example, in Marin Cunty, Calif.)

But many invasive species seem to be Mother Nature's way of helping us out, or trying to help us out.

Unsprayed star thistle happens to be one of the best foods in the world for bees. Bees that encounter it end up producing a very delectable honey. And thistles of all sorts ought to be utilized by people everywhere to help them with their allergies and their liver problems. But "eco experts" consider the thistles to be terrible, and so instead of bees getting to forage on the star thistle, the thistle gets sprayed and the bees end up with one fewer crops to feast on.

Instead, our culture has become a "Spray Spray Spray!" culture, killing off so many things and also ruining the health of the soil in the process.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
36. I do restoration ecology as part of my business
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 04:14 PM
Jun 2014

The introduction of non native species has been a hammer to the natural
biodiveristy of the ecosystem in many ways.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
44. Oh yeah, right.Fracking is friggin'
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:06 PM
Jun 2014

Fine and our governing officials seem to be lining up to promote fracking. Who needs clean water or clean air or decent healthy soil?

But let a star thistle cluster hit a hillside, and suddenly that same government is up in arms about the end of the eco system. At first glance, it doesn't seem like one section of the government knows what the other is doing. But Big Industry is paying for both those programs.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
25. BTW, Roundup is not merely Glyphosate - it is
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:27 PM
Jun 2014

41% glyphosate, 15% POEA, and the rest supposedly water.

But if the rest is water, then how is it the product is sprayable? (If you ever get on friendly terms with an organic chemist - ask him that. He or she will explain that for RoundUp to be sprayable, it has to contain an aldehyde, which the company has lied about since its first days of dealing with the EPA, decades ago. Without that aldehyde, the product would remain in cake form.)

So it is quite possible that back in the seventies, and eighties, and all the way through most of the nineties, RoundUp contained formaldehyde. This would explain why so many people who were avid joggers, and hikers ended up with MS, as there are many indications that over exposure to formaldehyde can cause a person to have MS. (It does seem that at some point in the late Nineties, that a different aldehyde than formaldehyde was utilized in the RoundUp formulation)

And then, back to the subject of POEA:

Glyphosate is used extensively as a non-selective herbicide by both professional applicators and consumers and its use is likely to increase further as it is one of the first herbicides against which crops have been genetically modified to increase their tolerance. Commercial glyphosate-based formulations most commonly range from concentrates containing 41% or more glyphosate to 1% glyphosate formulations marketed for domestic use. They generally consist of an aqueous mixture of the isopropylamine (IPA) salt of glyphosate, a surfactant, and various minor components including anti-foaming and colour agents, biocides and inorganic ions to produce pH adjustment.

The mechanisms of toxicity of glyphosate formulations are complicated. Not only is glyphosate used as five different salts but commercial formulations of it contain surfactants, which vary in nature and concentration. As a result, human poisoning with this herbicide is not with the active ingredient alone but with complex and variable mixtures. Therefore, It is difficult to separate the toxicity of glyphosate from that of the formulation as a whole or to determine the contribution of surfactants to overall toxicity. Experimental studies suggest that the toxicity of the surfactant, polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA), is greater than the toxicity of glyphosate alone and commercial formulations alone.

klook

(12,134 posts)
35. Very interesting info - thanks
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 04:12 PM
Jun 2014

I found this link to a good article summarizing recent findings and general info about glyphosate:
Gut-Wrenching: New Studies Reveal the Insidious Effects of Glyphosate (Cornucopia Institute)

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
42. Klook, i found the information you provided to be very pertinent and
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 04:57 PM
Jun 2014

Important as well.

And I like that Cornucopia Institute; what a find!

Also, in reading this over, I remembered one other thing - one of the things that happens synergistically with RoundUp and humans is that it amplifies certain pharmaceutical drugs. I used to have a whole sheet of info that detailed what drugs were amplified if consumed at a time when a person also was out there spraying RoundUp. You would think our FDA or EPA would tell us about this, but most people never find out.

And RoundUp is deadly for people with celiac disease, as the combination of having celiac disease and being around RoundUp often ends up in a very fast spreading stomach cancer. My neighborhood lost one of its favorite people to this combination. One day he was out and about and spraying RoundUp on a weekly basis for various concerns, like Big Golf Courses, and then he was found to have stage four stomach cancer, and then very short time later, he died.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
30. Honey bees are not actually the most serious problem.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:50 PM
Jun 2014

It is the loss of native pollinators - particularly bumble bees, which would have the greatest effect on food crops. Most native pollinators are way more important. Honey bees are important because they can be moved around fairly easily to pollinate specific crops - but this is actually part of the problem - All the moving around on semi trucks, getting there early and sitting in hot parking lots with no food except sugar water - and then being dumped into orchards in such large numbers that the bee colonies will not collect enough pollen and nectar to sustain healthy colonies - and there are few other flowers around to collect pollen and nectar. In the wild honey bees and native pollinators thrive on diverse food sources and diverse habitat. That is what is being lost to housing developments, shopping malls, highways, and monoculture agriculture which rips out the hedge rows and plants only a few crops, each of whch flowers all at the same time - what are the bees supposed to do the rest of the growing season?

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
6. I've got virtually no fruit on any of my fruit trees,
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:46 PM
Jun 2014

strawberries aren't producing nearly as well as I'd hoped, and I think I've seen fewer than 2 dozen honeybees all spring long. I used to see more than that in a single look around me when I was out in the yard.

 

leftyohiolib

(5,917 posts)
7. lets see ... who will benefit from the death of bees .... could it be
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:46 PM
Jun 2014

satan i mean monsanto-. so look to them for the bee-killers

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
12. And we are using MORE neonicotinoids because of GMO crops, not less.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:04 PM
Jun 2014
http://blog.ucsusa.org/genetically-engineered-crops-in-the-real-world-bt-corn-insecticide-use-and-honeybees-2


One of the most frequently mentioned benefits of genetically engineered crops is a reduction in chemical pesticide use on corn and cotton. These chemicals typically kill not only pest insects but also beneficial insects that help control pests or pollinate crops. They may also harm other friendly organisms like birds.


Honey bee on an apple blossom. USDA photo

But in reality, corn engineered to kill certain insect pests—AKA Bt corn—has mainly resulted in the replacement of one group of chemical insecticides with another. Previously, corn may have been sprayed, or soil treated with chemical insecticides to control several insect pests, especially corn rootworm. Bt has largely eliminated (at least for the time being) the demand for insecticides to control rootworm or European corn borer.

But those who tout the benefits of GE fail to mention that today virtually all corn seed is treated instead with chemical insecticides called neonicotinoids to ward off several corn insects not well controlled by Bt toxins. And while almost all corn is now treated with insecticide via the seed, substantial amounts of corn went untreated by insecticides prior to Bt. For example, corn alternated (rotated) with soybeans from year to year usually needed little or no insecticide treatment, and only five to 10 percent of corn was sprayed for corn borers.

Dead bees

A new publication by several academic entomologists on the impact of neonicotinoid insecticides on honey bees shows that such seed treatment may be having serious repercussions. Previous research has linked neonicotinoids to bee deaths as a possible contributor to colony collapse disorder, which is wreaking havoc on bees across the United States.

SNIP

Gamecock Lefty

(698 posts)
20. A GMO Bee?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:01 PM
Jun 2014

Now that's funny, but if a GMO bee helps restore populations, go for it!

And what's with all the hate towards Monsanto? Try feeding the world with nothing but organics. Not happening.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
32. Monsanto deserves all the hate they get. And more.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

It's not organics that cause hunger. It's greed.

lark

(23,003 posts)
27. You're being kind
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jun 2014

We're a year behind now and are just starting to study the impacts of pesticides. How long will the studying take and will anything actually get done? Can you imagine the Repugs going along with a ban? Unless Obama bans them unilaterally, which I'm not sure if it's possible, I think things will only get worse.

hue

(4,949 posts)
34. Well the UK does not have the magnitude of a totally obstructionist parliment/congress to deal with.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:58 PM
Jun 2014

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
39. "Monarch butterfly decline linked to spread of GM crops"
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 04:47 PM
Jun 2014

From the OP: "Scientists still do not fully understand why various types of bees and butterflies are dying...."



The main cause of the monarch butterfly's decline is the loss of milkweed — its food — in its U.S. breeding grounds, a new study has found. That all but confirms that the spread of genetically modified crops is indirectly killing the monarch.

This past winter, the number of monarch butterflies wintering in Mexico fell to its lowest since 1993, when records first started being kept, the World Wildlife Fund and Mexico's Environment Department reported in January. That report blamed the loss of milkweed owing to genetically modified crops and urban sprawl in the U.S. and illegal logging in the butterflies' Mexican wintering ground.

Monarch migration said to be in trouble as numbers fall

Now, an analysis combining all the known data about monarch populations and the factors that influence them shows that the monarch's biggest threat is in the U.S., not Mexico.

The leaves of the milkweed plant are the only place that monarchs lay their eggs and the only food that monarch butterfly caterpillars will eat. A large proportion of monarchs east of the Rocky Mountains breed in the U.S. corn belt, stretching from Kansas in the west to Ohio in the east, and south to north from Missouri to North Dakota.

more ...

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
57. It was. And last year. And the year before.
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:31 PM
Jun 2014

Why the hell is he ordering yet another?

It is true that the science is not definitive, but reviewing the science for a third time in three years will not change that.

A Little Weird

(1,754 posts)
48. I'm glad this is finally being addressed.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:11 PM
Jun 2014

Lots of great info about this topic and how you can help the pollinators over at the Xerces Society - http://www.xerces.org/

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
49. So am I, but will it actually get addressed? ..
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:29 AM
Jun 2014

The president can order any problem to be solved, but as inept and inefficient as our federal, state and local governments have become, it takes a lot more than a person in a powerful position ordering that a problem be solved. Especially when we have so many political and corporate forces hiding in the shadows and working against the common good of the people. I struggle with staying positive about the problems that face our nation and our planet, especially when the environment is concerned. Lets hope that something good comes from this executive order.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
51. Bees,Butterflies and birds
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:20 AM
Jun 2014

Every year that goes by, I see less and less of them.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Whole Foods did a demo (pic above) to show its customers what impact bees have in their choices. They estimated that it would remove over 50% of fruit and veggies and even impact the meat prices and diary products.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
53. Meh! Ordering yet another unfunded review. This will be the third in three years!!!
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:28 PM
Jun 2014

Two reports exist already. The problem is not the lack of review, it's the lack of solid information.

Fund it!!

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Obama orders review of pe...