to visit their home country. It also doesn't mention the ages, but it sounds like these might be college students, Not that it makes it any better.

Only pointing that out because the title makes it sound like this was something going on in a local community, but reading it sounds like it is girls from other countries where they are discovering it during medical exams.

Agesim?

The ultimate theft of one's bodily autonomy.

It has got to stop.

like this. It's just unbelievable. Is this driven by male dominance or something? I just find it so absolutely weird and horrible. Individuals responsible for this should serve a long time imprisoned. They also sound like they have some horrific mental problems.

Ritual rule. Oppression via Religion, again.

It has got to stop.

it has to stop. Oppression via Religion is one of the worst brain dead events, we see it endlessly, so many wars, so much misery, humans reacting basically from the brain stem it appears, more or less, no higher level intelligence involved, just reactive behavior.

This is why I see red whenever anyone says we should be tolerant of religion. Religion is the most evil force ever invented by mankind.

Nothing good has ever come from invisible sky fairies and the people who pretend they exist.

Since the koran is suposedly their deity's last word to humankind it would appear the deity doesn't give a rat's ass about this. Odd how Muslims could change pre-Islamic eating habits but not this.

because quite frankly does not the almighty in all religions have the power to do just that?

also its not really a question of "if it predates islam" it is a fact that it predates islam.

The dietary restrictions in Islam are close to the Jewish ones (no predators, but the Jews don't forbid alcohol) for probably the same reasons: predators carry disease, and some of them will eat you while you're trying to collect them.

The need for this law has gone away over time - we know to cook pork properly and the modern domestic hog isn't likely to send you up a tree or tear your ass apart like a wild boar will. But like Tevye said, "Tradition!"

...there is a part in it where Mohammad, in his kindness, tells men not to "cut" a woman too deeply when doing this. So, the Koran doesn't forbid it, but does say to be careful. And this, by the way, is how we know it predates Islam, because Mohammad comments on it as an on-going practice.

It's origins are religious. A specific deity need not be named.

Which is why I have to shake my head when Christians scapegoat Islam as some unique source of evil.

make FGM, a common Arab cultural practice at the the time of Mohammed, haram. Why not? Given the inviolable strictures against pork, pigs have ended up having a better life under Islam than women. Go figure.

First, I am a man. As a man, I am ashamed of my gender and its history of oppressing women. All religions blame the woman, just ask Eve.

Now, I would like to ask women, why do you put up with it? Why do you buy into all this religious BS?

Other questions I have: Why are there gay republicans? Why are there black republicans? Why are there Jewish Nazis? Oh wait, there aren't any. So how come Jews get it right but some women, gays, and blacks get it all wrong

Which makes it another religious custom.

This cultural without exception. But the discussion over at this English Swedish site got very heated, and many people decided that male circumcision is exactly the same and why isn't everyone freaking out over that too. Morons. They had to close the comments on this article. Oh, and also all Muslims should be expelled from Sweden.

What is much more common (happens in the US, too - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/horrific-taboo-female-circumcision-rise-u-s-n66226 ) is for parents to send their daughters back to their native country on holiday - where they are mutilated with impunity.

FGM doesn't spring from a single source. In some places it has a religious component; in others it is primarily cultural. For some, it is so ingrained that it becomes an element of "beauty". When I was in college, I knew a lovely young woman who had moved to the US from Ethiopia. She was Muslim - and had suffered FGM (performed by a woman in her village) when she was a toddler. We had several long conversations about it and she was utterly convinced that it was a good thing. She told me that she never would have married if she hadn't had it done, as no man would have wanted her.

It was horrifying to hear, but such a clear indicator of why this practice continues unabated and on the rise. I strongly suspect that if she had daughters they were "sent home" to have this done.

Frankly, until nations start prosecuting the parents after the fact - since there is no reasonable way to stop them from sending their daughters "on holiday" to the home country - this will continue. If a minor female is found to have undergone this procedure the assumption should start with family culpability. It shouldn't hinge on whether or not the child/young adult will turn them in - obviously, few children are willing to do that. It is child abuse. We don't expect children to report on their parents; when we see evidence of abuse we take action.

felony charge with a serious prison term. To me, this is even far worse than child molestation.

Last edited Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:11 AM - Edit history (1)

When that was a cultural norm in China, a woman with "big" (normal) feet would be considered crude and unattractive, since having "tiny" feet was seen as a sign of social status and wealth (because such a crippled woman could not work). Eventually, being left uncrippled meant a woman was a peasant and therefore not desirable except as someone who would do all the scut work.

Mothers would bind their daughters' feet to make sure they would not be viewed as undesirable and unmarriageable.

In her novel The Good Earth, Pearl S. Buck creates a female character whose feet were never bound. The woman always laments the fact that she is undesirable, and that although she works hard, her husband is only attracted to his concubine with tiny "lotus feet. To make sure that her own daughter will not suffer such obstacles in her life, the woman makes sure her feet are tightly bound while she is still a tiny toddler, even though the child screams, weeps, and begs her mother to stop hurting her.

Foot binding literally crushes all the bones of the feet and bends them inward, as though they were being squished in a trash compactor. It is torture, and it cripples the girl for life.

When tiny, tiny waistlines were most desirable for women, they either squished their ribcages with corsets or even had ribs surgically removed. They could scarcely breathe when wearing the corsets.

Now that huge breasts are all the rage, girls in their teens are being given breast augmentation surgery as birthday or graduation gifts by their foolish parents. Even if the girl doesn't suffer catastrophic complications--which, as you know, are always a risk of even minor surgery, much less such major surgery--they are significantly increasing their risk for other health problems in the future.

Look at Priscilla Presley's face. A once attractive woman deformed her face bizarrely in an attempt to achieve a look considered culturally desirable.

FGM is, I think, the worst of the contemporary practices that harm women in the name of making them desirable, but it is not isolated. It is merely at the most extreme end of a horrifying continuum.

Putting the whole blame on Islam would be not only wrongheaded but dangerous.

This happens when the girls go visit their home country. The class in this case was mostly Somali girls. Sweden has taken in a lot of Somali refugees in the last few years.

They can not jail the people who actually do the cutting, as they are in a foreign country. They can jail the parents when the girls return to Sweden after having FGM. The parents are not supposed to allow this under Swedish law.

...native countries with their parents and it's done there. It's illegal in Sweden. And the parents who had it done could be going to jail thanks to Sweden's laws on it.

These are the daughters of immigrants from predominately Muslim, Middle Eastern or African countries who have gone back to the parent's country of origin and forced to undergo this horrific mutilation. The parents should go to prison and have their parental rights terminated on a permanent basis for every daughter they have. And none of the daughter's should be placed with an immigrant family who could end up doing the same thing to the younger ones. And I promise this isn't just the men; the mothers want it too, because it had been done to them and they believe this is required to preserve family honor so a girl doesn't go out and have sex with every man she brushes up against. They don't trust their daughters, but I guess the sons get to keep their penises because it's ok if the boy has sex outside marriage, it would seem. This a hard story for me to read, mostly because the trauma to the girls is so extreme, and because it's just so barbaric. And irreversible. You can't replace a female clitoris. Maybe they can perform some kind of reconstructive surgery to alleviate any health problems they will have later in life, but any physical pleasure they might have gotten from making love is gone forever.

to a child. It is absolutely barbaric. What some humans are capable of astounds me, how absolutely barbaric and horrible.

It turns a woman into a thing for her husband to masturbate into. With no sexual pleasure of her own, she's more easily controlled, so the theory goes. It certainly ensures she'll bleed copiously on her wedding night.

It's the end game of patriarchy.

No religion, including Islam, sanctions this practice, though the majority of girls this terrible thing is done to are Muslim.

it's all misogynist bullshit

See my post #10 as I've tracked down some info on the subject.

Also makes no mention of the school being postsecondary.

This has got to stop.
Love, Peace and Shelter. Lmsp

what a terrible practice. any culture that considers it okay to mutilate their children...is a culture that needs to grow up.

Fear mongering with threats of harm. Rape as a tool in war. Exposed.
Now. This has got to stop.

where girls and women are not considered human beings! as a woman this just...hurts.

Sound of the crying. OMG !!!

i cannot fathom a mindset that would advocate such an act.

Deserve life in prison with no hope of parole for this. 10 years is nothing to lose for what they are doing.

Here are two sources I found on the subject, both of them scholarly:

http://eige.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Current%20situation%20and%20trends%20of%20female%20genital%20mutilation%20in%20Sweden_EN.pdf

http://sogc.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gui299CPG1311E.pdf

It is illegal in Sweden to take part in female genital mutilation. The practice still occurs within immigrant families as it is common in parts of Africa, of which Sweden has a lot of immigrants from African countries. If they believe it is going to occur, the authorities are suppose to step in and intervene. I'm asking my Swedish friend on Facebook about it right now.

TheLocal.com seems like a crappy source for news. Were there any arrests? Who did they arrest? Over what time period did the mutilations occur? What will Sweden do in response? Are the girls still with their parents?
Here is a slightly better source.

The article still really doesn't state that it is among African immigrants. It is a pity that they'd leave that detail out.

Holland has gotten better, but in Belgium, it was forbidden (though you'd never see it written down anywhere) for the press, when reporting on violent crimes, to say it was committed by a Morroccan (largest immigrant group). It was supposedly in the name of "tolerance," designed to dampen hostility toward immigrants. As is so often the case where theory takes precedence over reality, it had the opposite effect, and extremist rightist groups suddenly were like weeds that were waiting years to get watered. Now in Belgium, when a violent crime is committed, many Belgians, especially the Flemish speakers, say it was committed by "the Swedes." Since there are hardly any Swedish residents of Belgium, and those who are there are hardly the types to have violent tendencies, everyone knows who is really meant.

So, it does not surprise me that the Swedish press exercised self-censorship as to who committed these crimes (for crimes they were). It is ostensibly in the name of tolerance and not wanting to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment. It will, of course, have the opposite effect. It is rather arrogant on the part of the censoring authorities to assume the population in general is ignorant as to what parts of the world have groups that still practice this barbaric ritual.

Some people are jumping to the conclusion that it is the Swedish themselves that are condoning the behavior. I happened to use Google because the first question in my mind was "why?". Having visited Sweden and having Swedish ancestry, it certainly didn't sound like something the Swedish would do. Granted, no country is perfect, but there's no point in putting a noose around a county's neck for doing something that they didn't.

The people exercising the censorship think they are doing the immigrant community a favor, but that is basically a theory they have thought up for themselves to justify their inaction. The population lurches to the right because the far right is the only organized voice out there willing to cry foul. The population at large needs to make their arrogant bureaucracy understand that they are doing neither Sweden nor their new immigrants any favors by sweeping this under the carpet. No one is fooled, and the far right gets a free ride they neither earned nor deserve.

I speak Swedish fairly well, and have friends there. No way in the world they think this is insignificant.

But they do leave lasting scars.

Now in Belgium, when a violent crime is committed, many Belgians, especially the Flemish speakers, say it was committed by "the Swedes." Since there are hardly any Swedish residents of Belgium, and those who are there are hardly the types to have violent tendencies, everyone knows who is really meant.

However, since there is no government edict against giving a perp's description in the USA, the far right may have their own agenda, for example avoiding posts they would rather not see re-posted by the general public. FR already IS far right. The Belgians, on the other hand, would like to prevent provoking their country from heading in that direction.

Even if they sent the children to the home country for a 'vacation' and they returned mutilated.

It is also illegal to use corporal punishment on children & that has been prosecuted there. As I remember it was some school religious? that 'spanked' students.

eom

If Rhinodawg is wrong, refute his claims with facts instead of insulting him. I'm afraid he may be right about Sweden. At least to a degree.

That being said, as a father of two daughters (both of whom I'm extremely proud), I'm very angry over what was done to those poor girls! It truly is a vicious crime!

.

Or are you basing your outrage on a select few internet articles you've read? Get real.

done in the name of religion, but many terrible things are done with the "But that's what my religion teaches!" justification.

Which is among the reasons I so dislike almost all organized religion.

The world's two largest monotheistic religions both have a lot to answer for, given their past and present history.

"dark age" religious mentality going to die out? Yeah I bet some kind of religion is behind this awful abuse.

country.

When school breaks up for the summer holidays the risk of being exposed to the surgery increases for many Swedish girls due to the prospect of visits to their parents' home countries.

"We're working to inform parents that they could face prison if they come back and their children have undergone female genital mutilation," said Petra Blom Andersson, student health coordinator in Norrköping, to the newspaper.

Most girls who undergo the procedure are between the ages of 4-14 years, but the operation is also carried out on infants. Teenagers typically suffer a wide range of complications including period pains and headaches and for some it can be very painful to urinate.

There are no established figures detailing the extent of the female genital mutilation in Sweden, or of how many girls are brought to their parents' countries of origin to get it done.'

Every day, in the name of a "religion" or a so-called hygienic improvement, the foreskins of thousands of male babies are cut off, involuntarily.

Or, to put it more crudely, the end of their penis is cut off and discarded, at a time of their life when they have absolutely no say in the procedure.

What's the damned difference?

and then ask a woman the same, 'what's the damned difference.' Your suggestion is ludicrous.

and OK with me to 'leave.' Stoopid is OK! I do like my 'ludicrous!'

but do NOT attempt to minimize the unparalleled enormity of female genital mutilation by raising your feeble comparison.

They are not the same.

...the "men have it bad toooo" whining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

of denying sensation to a man, and there are some medical reasons for doing so.

Female genital mutilation is done to control women and has no health benefits and many serious health risks.

would be the same thing as removing the clitoris.
I assume your glans is still intact.

Precisely. Thank you.

Slicing off a girl's clitoris is the equivalent of slicing off a boy's penis. That is the damned difference.

Exactly!

A man who is circumcised is still fully capable of experiencing the full range of sensations associated with sex. The lack of a foreskin is no impairment to a man's sex life.

A woman with her clitoris and labia removed, and then largely sown shut, is so far beyond comparison to male circumcision that it's fucking ridiculous.

You're pretty simple minded if you cant see what the difference is.
ETA: Yes, I'm a guy.

the ages or classes of the students but from the context these were girls in grade, middle and possibly even the gymnasium level. The referenced article in English says they were girls between 4 and 14.

It is a terrible crime against these girls not only depriving them of the ability to achieve a clitoral orgasm but as well running the risk of infections, etc.

I would suggest, however, that male circumcision while not perhaps as dramatic is a definite form of genital mutilation. Just as a woman who was mutilated can achieve a vaginal orgasm, a circumcised male can of course achieve climax. But for females a clitoral orgasm either as a result of her own or a partner's stimulation is more common and easier to achieve. As for males I believe the jury is still out on whether the presence of the foreskin enhances sexual arousal and the intensity of orgasm but it is likely it does.

We should not let adults mutilate the genitals of minors period. This should not be permitted any more than we would permit adults to cut off a finger or an ear. If a young man or woman decide of their own free will to undergo circumcision that is then their decision.

Not one word of it in the article. (!) How very correct of them.

The same goes for a lot of the posters in this thread, as well.

Which goes to show how hypocritical correct thinking can be.

power over others genitals was seen as sign of complete control :p

oh wait, we are still fighting to keep our rights to our own private parts.. so I take back the 'at some point'

If they were, Christians/Jews would be cutting dicks completely off, not just nipping at some foreskin.

the two shows you have a level of ignorance that should embarrass you. When they cut off the penis so men can longer enjoy sex - which is all FGM is about - we'll have this discussion. Until then, your attempt at deflection puts you in a very bad light. BTW - Muslim men are also circumcised.

We have a winner.

It's okay. You can say Muslim.
Or, maybe you cannot, for fear of retaliation. On second thought I can see why the paper was silent.

profess one of these two faiths.

As I said, Christianity and Islam as a whole both have a lot to answer for, past and present. But that doesn't reflect on every individual believer, by any means.

There is censorship involved by the Swedish media, which surprises me quite a bit. I was aware there are a large number of immigrants in Sweden.

As well as in other Nordic countries. People like to point at Norway, et al, and how good their system is; part Socialism part capitalistic. But there has been an influx of immigrants; many who do not contribute to those systems but use them, and its starting to weight it down.
Thats why the same things wont work here as well as they've worked over there.

I agree if immigrants are not productive it will weigh down the system. South Korea, where I live, has quite a number of immigrants. Most are either married to Koreans or on work visas with a fair number who are not here on either yet still work.

The NK would just kill everyone in town when they showed up so everyone was on the move all the time, until the Inchon invasion stopped it. I should record all those stories while shes still around.

My FIL is getting up there in age (he's 82) and he also was around during the Korean War. His hometown was outside Pyeongyang. He fled south and eventually fought with the South Koreans (and US) against North Korea. I told my wife I'm going to try to spend more time with him this summer. We don't have a lot in common, but he is such a lonely guy.

Western World x-tian fundies are a smaller percentage of the whole-


Easy to point facts out...


The key is education. A good education instead of brainwashing from a young age is required. The Taliban know this that's why those fucking losers destory every girls school they can get their hands on.

And it may be that to them, an educated woman is also a woman that will start asking questions or standing up for herself.
But the bible is different from the koran in how much violence it actually calls for from followers.

The way I look at it is that here, the christians have the Westboro Baptist folks, and look how 99% of the people react to them. In the Muslim world there are a LOT of their version of Westboro Baptist folks, and they are rarely condemned.

And to be honest, I think it loud and clear but wouldn't dare include it in a post. I have seen people go politically correct to the point of defending this practice. Not on DU, but elsewhere. It takes a heartless person to think insulting someone is worse than what is done to these girls.

How about 40 years to life minimum.

8 years is, I believe, the max in Sweden for first-degree sexual assault.

Regardless, I see your point. I would not be opposed to a potential life sentence for someone who orchestrates these despicable crimes against children.

They should not allow these vile parents to take their little girls out of the country to hack them up.

Certain cultures are cruel beyond reasoning.

You can see the healed images of crotch shots. It's pretty bizzarre looking, and honestly looks hardly functional.