I have to say that I get just as good produce from Trader Joe's and for WAY less than anything I ever saw at Whole Foods. I haven't gone there in probably six years. When I did it was as a happenstance, as I just moved to Atlanta. I thought it was a regular supermarket. I had an eye opening experience, that is for sure.

I can go to my *international market* and get limes 10 for a dollar. As a matter of fact, I did that just yesterday!

I think we are not talking about the same place… but farmers markets do indeed, rock.

Its an international farmers market I thought. you can get produce and spices.

I was talking about a market where I live now, (in the DC Area) but YES, we used to shop at the Dekalb Farmers Market!

That place is amazing and when we can get there, we always stock up on spices. The fresh veggies and fruits are just out of this world!

It's one of the things I miss about living there, that place just rocks.

I just won't buy produce that way. I have to pick individual items, making sure each one is of the ripeness and quality I'm looking for. Nothing worse than finding bad produce underneath the several good ones on top. I do like Trader Joe's for other things, however. And I miss my little local vegetable guy--3 lemons for a dollar--who got run out of the storefront after 45 years by big-time restaurateur Rick Bayless. Hey Rick, how can you say you're for local and sustainable when you do that?

Whole Foods is overpriced on produce, but sometimes the quality is better than you can get elsewhere. (Not always, you have to know your stuff). But at my Whole Foods, when you buy bulk products and weigh them, you punch in the kind of container you've put it in (plastic bag, herb bag, plastic container, etc.) and it subtracts that weight--unlike what the article in the OP states.

I think different WFs are managed very differently. There's only one here I like to shop at. It's more ... real ... or something. Both the customers and the people who work there.

... in the old section where the traditional shops (and a lot of the tourist attractions) are. I wanted some fruit, and there was a small, traditional, produce-only store, not a supermercato, with fruit and vegetables stacked up to the ceiling and one small aisle in the center.

So I went in, and started picking and choosing some items from the display baskets and then presented my selection to the shop keeper. He took my money, but gave me a real dirty look. What was that about?

After I left I looked back and watched as a few other customers come up to the store. They all stood OUTSIDE the store, and pointed in the general direction of what they wanted. The shopkeeper would then pick and chose, rather than the customer, and the customer would pay up and get whatever he was given.

Seems like I really broke protocol and was probably considered arrogant for my customer first behavior.

This was not the case in the supermercati, which were run much like an American supermarket.

I'm envious you got to make one in Florence!

Francis Ford Coppola got every detail right.

they provided plastic gloves!

There was also a sign advising to only touch the produce you were buying.

I had a hard time trying to pick out what I wanted!

They would have had to go in with HazMat suites and detox the area!

Their other stuff is frequently very well priced and good quality.

Whole food is good but far too expensive!

and expanded it across the country while maintaining the original concept and the original owner as CEO for quite awhile.

And another big part is wine. Only a small section of produce, most of which is prepackaged.

I enjoy some of their prepared stuff like hummus but can't really buy much there. I do the majority of my shopping at a local grocery but do go to Whole Foods for bulk spices, freshly ground peanut and almond butters, and organic produce that I can select individually.

Only in CA???

This borders on over-regulation.

If you don't like the prices at whole foods, don't shop there. Like the poster above said, farmers markets are far more interesting and a hell of a lot cheaper.

Let's roll out the ol' right-wing talking points.

This is cheating. It is theft. It is crime. It is a pathetic breach of trust.

How much can those containers weigh?

My point is, the stuff is already marked up so much, I would be shocked if this is not an oversight as opposed to "cheating" or "theft". Most likely it was just a screw up.

And yes, there can be too much regulation. Regulations can reach a point that the social good they do is outweighed by the cost they inflict on the consumer. That is not a right-wing talking point. It is part of main-stream public policy theory.

So yes, I stick by my statement, sounds like over-regulation. I could be wrong. Need more facts.

is right. There isnt a industry today that is "over regulated." Most likely this corp made millions by cheating consumers. And after they pay their paltry fine, will turn around and continue. It's the new business model.

And I will stick with this statement, "Corporations are not "over-regulated."

And I don't really disagree with you, we generally need more regulation, especially in the corporate sphere. I was just trying to point out that not all regulation is created equal, and not all regulation is good. It can go too far. I's surprised that is controversial, but I probably did not do a good job of laying a foundation.

My other point is really more related to the irony of a corporation that caters to the wealthy, that has already marked up their prices more than any of its competitors, getting stuck with a fine for something so stupid. Now if they did it on purpose or were "willfully blind" that would be a different story.

Look, I don't like being put in the position of defending whole foods or any other big corp for that matter. It is distasteful. But as a small business owner, I can attest that I have violated numerous regulations without meaning to. The cost to educate myself about all of them, much less fully comply, would make it difficult for me to continue in business. I do my best, though.

to complain you've been the victim of one. Wikipedia's got a good article.

Not subtracting the tare from a container of $30/pound prepared food does add up very quickly. Regulations exist to protect even you for paying $30/pound for a two cent container. Not doing this robbed everybody who bought their products. It's like putting a thumb on the scale.

Anti regulation people usually haven't read the history of why we got regulations in the first place. Saying we have "too many regulations" speaks of profound ignorance.

Is a good example of why I chided you about right-wing talking points.

My experience is that as soon as you adopt the term you have adopted the meme. In this case over-regulation implies that there is too much, simply because it is too much. In fact, I believe that is a good summary of your response. Again, looks like the right-wing line (kinda like Joe the Plumber): "I run a small (always small) business, and I know there are too many regulations because I could not survive if I conformed to all of them."

Now, I am not saying that you are a right-winger. However by using their language and concomitant assumptions, you head off in the direction of their conclusions. Why not the language like: are some regulations "right" or "correct" or "effective" or sufficient, instead of "too much"?

And yes, it does rub me the wrong way to see these memes here.

In the context of regulating big corporations, I see your point. And agree most regulations are needed, sufficient and effective. And many, many industries need more regulations because the ones they have are not sufficient nor effective (most polluters come to mind). Did WF overcharge? The fines say yes. Was it purposeful? Who knows. If it was, they are idiots to mess with the brand.

I am still a relative newbie, I admit. And the glee I see here anytime business gets its comeuppance takes a little getting used to. I don't reflexively hate business or capitalism. It has many, many problems. And don't get me started about what the repugs are doing. What they advocate is not capitalism. It is oligarchy, crony capitalism, soft fascism. It sure as hell is not capitalism.

As to my post, I guess my thought process was "I happen to think that Whole Foods tries, at least so much as a soulless machine can try, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt." That may be the dumbest thing I have thought in a while (actually, it is not - I think up some pretty dumb things), but that is basically what went through my head.

As to the over-regulation comment, I still wonder whether we need to have a regulation that says the minuscule weight of a container must be excluded from the weight of the product being sold? Maybe so, maybe not. To me, it seems a little silly to regulate that. As a consumer, I always figured the weight of the container was NOT being subtracted, but since it was so small, I didn't care. I also figured if it was being subtracted, then the price would be ever so slightly higher to make up the difference, so it is basically a wash.

I guess I would rather focus regulatory effort and $$ on bigger issues, and leave the little stuff to the market.

Hope I did a better job explaining myself this time. Folks may not agree with me, and I respect that. I may very well be wrong!

You see, when powerful rich companies overcharge, like say, the cable company, you don't have a choice. Maximum orices need to be set

Anyone who como'sins about regulation needs more regulation. Heavy control is what is needed to make conservatives behave. Remember, they are sociopaths and violent animals. Preferabl ehile foods should have been seized, and liberals installed instead of it's tea ostprty owner eh is having a wonderful time taking stupid hippy money

I think not.

WF chose to ignore the rules (or regulations that were in place) if they did not believe them to be fair, they have the choice to take efforts to change them through the legislative process. Consumers have every right to shop some where else if they don't like the price, certainly. They also have the right to expect that merchants are playing by the rules when they shop.

near the product says the cost will be?

Really?

Deducting the weight of the container is standard everywhere. It is a rule usually set by the Department of Weights and Measures for consistency. Every modern scale has some programmed way of deducting the "tare". Anyone who uses a scale to sell things should know this rule, just like they probably have to get their scale certified for accuracy once a year or so. From the article, it sounds like Whole Foods was ignoring the law despite numerous citations.

and it rings up on the cash register as $4.49, that's fraud.

They are not stupid. They know what they did.

Then along comes a post that illustrates part of the reason strong consumer laws are almost extinct in this country. Water carriers.

I wish it were possible for middle- and lower-class proponents of so-called free enterprise and laissez-faire economics to live just one week in the world they think they want to exist. Just one.

For some reason the image of a herd of stampeding elephants racing away from all hell breaking loose comes to mind. (I realize that the analogy of elephants is imperfect as they are far too intelligent to star in this scenario, but you get the idea.)

Ironically, in Minnesota at least, many rural areas do not have them.

When you buy something and the price is listed and you get to the register and they charge more than they listed do you smile and say, well this is my choice, to be ripped off and go merrily on your way?

Well, kind of it is...the problem is the company had one price on the shelf and a higher one in the computer.

It ran an ad saying "buy a steak get a free lobster tail." I thought "ALL RIGHT!" I don't usually fire up the barbecue but thought this special would make it worthwhile. It had a long time since I had "surf and turf."

I went into the store to find that all the steaks were packaged two to a package. And the sign in the store read that I would get a free lobster tail with the purchase of one package (two steaks!!!).

I wanted two steaks and two lobster tails for my wife and me, so I clarified with an employee that I would have to buy two packages of steaks to receive two free lobster tails. "Yes," was the answer so I had to buy four steaks to receive the two free lobster tails.

I complained to management that I believed this to be false advertising. I also filled out a customer-comment card.

Well, I still haven't had "surf and turf," and I'm starting to check-out "Natural Grocers" as an alternative to WF.

I could see people more likely to share a steak than a damn lobster tail. If you're buying "a" steak, that means ONE steak. They were trying to rip you off.

That's a great little deal!

Haven't shopped there for years. Where I shop, I get to talk with the farmer and get way better produce. Or I go buy grass fed milk and pastured eggs from an employee owned co op. Why the hell would I go back to a greenwashing corporation who treats their employees like crap?

Reading this makes me all the more grateful for the area that we live in. Just a few miles north of us cattle are grazing on thousands of acres of green grass and forest covered hills, we haven’t bought any beef from the market for six months, since we bought a side of organic grass raised beef from a farmer fifteen miles from our home. We know who, how and where it was raised. The total cost including butchering, wrapping and labeling to our specifications, was about $3.75 a pound. Our chicken that’s raised cage free can be locally sourced as well. All the eggs we buy are local organic cage free and bought from the people that we know who raised them. We shop at our new co-op as much as possible and buy organic vegetables from the people that grew them. All of this is priced far cheaper than at the regular market. This is fast becoming a movement in the area from Northern CA to Washington and may be the wave of the future, and yes I’m aware of all the problems this model would have in large cities.

When I lived in Northern CA, it felt like living in heaven. The food, the wine, the beauty of the land was ideal in every way. You sound like you've found all the best sources and I can imagine how delicious it all is! Here in SoCal, we have to do a bit more driving to find everything but have managed to do the same. Especially buying meat directly from the farmer is the best investment we ever made. I encourage everyone to go in with your friends & neighbors because not only do you save a ton of money, it tastes amazing.

For us, it is a lot of work and more expensive than eating crap, but not only do we eat out very little because our home made food tastes far superior, but have found a huge decrease in doctor's bills. My partner had terrible teeth when we met and has not had a problem or a cavity since. In over a decade, neither of us has had any kind of sickness and we both look and feel better than ever in our lives. I get accused of spreading woo around here, but everyone I know who puts effort into their diet, shopping and cooking, is incredibly pleased with the results.

overcharging!!!!




Whole Paycheck, indeed!

I won't go there. We have so many better, more affordable options in my area.

they had gone up to 3 locations, but what a difference in price. Yes, Whole Paycheck it was and apparently still is. Part of the problem is that organic produce just doesn't have the shelf life (profit margin) of gassed food, and local specialty food suppliers are also expensive...for the same reason...so they just made it a Yuppie Store.

the cash register. When you shop try to have a good idea what everything is supposed to cost and then watch to make sure that is what you get charged. And if they do overcharge you say something.

And the thing is, in my experience the incorrect pricing almost always seems to be in favor of the retailer. If these merely were random errors you would think that an equal number of goods would be underpriced, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

My local grocery store (HEB) overcharges all the time. I save my receipts, double-check them, and get the amount refunded. Lately, they have been charging an extra dollar per bag of pistachios. I went through my recent receipts, and found three instances. I'll be taking those with me on the next visit. I must mention that they also make errors in the customer's favor from time to time, like my favorite apples being undercharged by 30 cents a pound.
My local Best Buy always has errors with their pricing as well (Flash Drive 8.99 sale/ 29.99 at check out). That being said, the consumer has a large responsibility to make sure that they are being charged correctly if they don't want to make an extra trip later to iron things out.

You won't be seeing any half broken down Chevys or Fords .. unless of course they're owned by employees. Don't get me wrong their produce is laid out beautifully and they have an excellent food bar etc. But I can't afford those prices per pound. They stay in business; so I guess as long as people are willing to pay these prices it will continue. It's a damn shame we can't all have access to quality food.

for more calories. Never. Potatoes, beans, carrots and onions are ~28 cents per pound wholesale meaning at minimum wage it takes 3 minutes to earn enough to buy that pound:

Last edited Fri Jul 25, 2014, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

And comparing salad bar products to potato chips by weight is pure silliness.

Also, wholesale prices aside, nothing in your post justifies the sad state of affairs that is Whole Foods, where presentation is all that matters, and higher profits the main course.

Name calling is childish and is not a refutation of anything I stated.

Thus, really, there is no name calling.

The prices are ridiculous. It's all about the presentation. There is no actual benefit to buying the food they provide compared to any old supermarket. It's pure nonsense.

He wastes soooo much damn money at this store. Mainly on produce, sheesh I grow my own vegetables, I don't get why other people that want organic produce don't do that. I work a full time job, and I'm still able to maintain it just fine. Haven't lost anything so far, in fact I picked 6 tomatoes from 2 plants today.

on which to have our own gardens.

I shop at Whole Foods because it is the closest grocery store to my apt. building (a 5 min walk down a pretty landscaped path) and I don't own a car. The mini-markets are even more expensive and since I am on foot, carrying groceries back from the next closest supermarket would be a schlep.

But my brother has a huge backyard, that's why I don't understand why he doesn't grow his own veggies. With him it's the opposite he has to go out of his way to get to whole foods. He lives 30 minutes from WF, 5 minutes from Kroger, and about 10 minutes away from Aldis ( wonderful store btw). Plus the farmers market is nearby. Doesn't make since for him to spend spend spend at WF when he lives near so many other stores. I do enjoy WF but BOYYYYY is it pricey where I live.

There is nothing like garden grown vegetables. I grew up in a family that had lots of land w/ an Italian dad gardener and it was wonderful to have home grown vegetables year round (my mom would freeze and/or can what we couldn't eat during harvest).

I think that is why I love vegetables as an adult, because I know how good they can taste when they come from a home grown garden. I think that some people don't even know what real vegetables taste like because they have only had corporate supermarket versions of them.

I like living in a city, but there are definitely some downsides.

and sure as hell no way you could do a god damn thing about it if you were...

Just reminding everyone

I think it's pretty much a given when you walk in the door

Pope fined for being Catholic
Bear fined for etc.

and you ain't gonna see that....

The place is based on nothing but scams to charge people ridiculous amounts of money for products that are worth much less.

Please don't shop a Whole Foods!

Nearly every single time I bought anything from that store that was marked "on sale", the cash register rang it up at full price anyway.

perceive to be "the lower classes." That's why WF gets away with ripping people off - it's another "status" thing where people throw their money away.

At least it appears that way to me.

It's the only grocery store that I know of within walking distance of my job.

It's the only grocery store within walking distance of MANY that you might perceive to be "the lower classes". (This is a separate problem in urban areas - google "food deserts" for more about it.)

I don't approve of the owner's politics and I agree that they charge too high on many items. I'm sure the "lower classes" who shop there because it's the only place in reach, are just going there for the best value they can get on fresh produce, at the only place they can get it. (Ok, there are food trucks that sell fruit. Wanna compare prices??)

But, I can do the Whole Foods salad bar and get a MUCH healthier lunch for cheaper than anywhere else around my work. Unfortunately it's barely in walking distance so I don't get much time to eat if I do that. If it were closer I'd probably go there every day just for that.

Keep in mind also, that their competition is NOT the regular grocery store, it is other natural foods stores that sell similar products, that can't be found in most "regular" grocery stores (although that's changing, and Whole Foods' stock is reflecting that). I have found Whole Foods to be generally competitive with the other natural foods stores that I have shopped at. Usually cheaper (presumably due to economies of scale), but the other natural foods stores generally have the benefit of being locally owned and run, so I prefer to go there for my usual shopping.

I happen to shop there because it is the only store (besides mini-markets) that is within walking distance. I live in the middle of a city and don't have a car. I only shop for myself and the convenience of having Whole Foods a few minutes walk away outweighs the hassle of going to a slightly cheaper, but still overpriced, market in a neighborhood that I will have to travel to via a very, very long walk or numerous different public transportation switches.

I have tried several times to shop at our local WF, prices are crazy. Maybe this action will prompt them to clean up their act. Price reasonably and honestly.

I'd shop there but I don't like their way of doing business.
Too $$ and sometimes hard to understand their pricing .
Don't they use comparison shoppers? Can they not see that their practices turn people off? If they were honestly competitive, I'm sure their business would improve.

Glad to see someone has caught up with them.

I can

That is, I can find some of the vegetarian brands I like (Tofurky, Quorn, gardein) in greater variety of choices and for much less per unit cost than I can at my closest grocery, Kroger. I shop at Kroger far more often because they're a 24-hour store, have U-SCAN (which I prefer, especially as I use all of my own bags and can bag them faster than someone unfamiliar with them), and they're less than two miles away. Whole Foods is further, but they have a better selection of the kinds of foods I want, not to mention a higher quality of the same.

Now, if HEB would build one of their big stores close by (their smaller stores are a joke for us vegetarians, as in lower quality on produce and less selection/variety) then I'd switch to them again. Same for their Central Market being closer. It's like Whole Foods in variety and quality, but lower prices. It's just that much further away.