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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:35 PM Jun 2014

Radioactive elements from Fukushima-1 can get into deep layers of groundwater - TV

Source: Voice of Russia

TEPCO, the operator company of the crippled Fukushima-1 NPP in the North-East of Japan, has stated that the liquid with a high content of radioactive substances could get into deep layers of the groundwater, the NHK TV channel reports.

The deep layers of the groundwater lie at a distance of about 25 meters from the soil surface. After the level of tritium in one of the technical wells near the first unit of the station reached 4.7 thousand becquerels per liter, experts suspected radioactive contamination of the deep waters. Experts do not exclude that transfer of the radioactive water into the deep layers is connected with the decrease of pressure in them. According to experts, drilling works carried out in the territory of the station during the experiment on freezing the radioactive water could lead to this. It is also not excluded that a liquid with a high content of radioactive elements can leak into the sea.

Since this April, TEPCO launched an experiment on freezing 11 thousand tons of radioactive water that had accumulated in underground tunnels of the station in order to prevent its infiltration into the soil and further transfer into the sea. For this purpose the company installed vertical pipes with freezing agent in the tunnels of two units of the station. Ice wall of radioactive water formed from freezing had to create a barrier for the leakage of this water. However, due to constructional features of the tunnels, it is impossible to freeze part of the water.

The problem of accumulating radioactive water remains one of the unresolved problems of the Fukusima-1. The underground rooms and tanks have accumulated about 440 thousand tons of water with high level of radiation. The volume of the polluted water under the earth grows daily by 400 tons owing to groundwater coming from the upland.

<snip>

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_25/Radioactive-elements-from-Fukushima-1-can-get-into-deep-layers-of-groundwater-TV-7625/

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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bananas

(27,509 posts)
1. Tepco finally admitted the "possibility" that contaminated water penetrated to the deep layer of the
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:37 PM
Jun 2014
http://fukushima-diary.com/2014/06/tepco-finally-admitted-the-possibility-that-contaminated-water-penetrated-to-the-deep-layer-of-the-ground/

Tepco finally admitted the “possibility” that contaminated water penetrated to the deep layer of the ground

Posted by Mochizuki on June 25th, 2014

Tepco finally admitted the possibility that contaminated water penetrated to the deep layer of the ground. Tepco announced in the extraordinary press conference of 6/24/2014.

Fukushima Diary has been pointing out the possibility for months.

(cf, Tritium density in deep underground broke the highest record ever, 4,700,000 Bq/m3 [URL])

<snip>

Tepco is still “under investigation” for the cause, but they are stating the construction of frozen water wall might have spread the contaminated water accidentally.

If the contaminated water is penetrating to deep layer of the ground, there are few measures to stop it spreading. It can also travel underground of the ocean bed to come up to the sea offshore of Fukushima plant.

<snip>

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
2. Bringing the health effects of Strontium to the water supply of ~13 million people.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 08:10 PM
Jun 2014

Tokyo is downstream.

They could open up the largest health spa of it's kind in the world. Silly, yes, but since there is no solution to contaminating the water supply of 13 million-ish people, they might want to have something to do before the leukemia and cancers take over.

>However, due to constructional features of the tunnels, it is impossible to freeze part of the water.

Love this. They have created the biggest Dirt Slurpee in the world, and were told this would happen. Complete waste of time and money, thought it did delay real action and allow a few people to continue making good salaries, may have dulled the public pressure enough to continue. Can add it to the kids who were unnecessarily exposed in Fukushima and now have cancer early inaction and cover up.



FBaggins

(26,697 posts)
7. Where on earth did you get that notion?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:34 AM
Jun 2014

Tokyo is in no sense "downstream" from Fukushima.

Love this. They have created the biggest Dirt Slurpee in the world,

You're repeating a common recent error. They haven't had any trouble freezing the ground... because they've only just started working on that "wall". The water they're struggling to freeze is entirely unrelated.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
3. TEPCO has shown us one thing
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 08:13 PM
Jun 2014

and that is that the nuclear power industry don't really have answers to many of our questions about the safety of a nuclear power plant
We should shut the nuclear power plants we have down and deal with the consequences of that as we must. As they say necessity is the mother of invention or something to that effect

Most of our nuclear power plants are sited near large population centers. That fact scares the hell out of me

I'm most proud that the people of northeast Oklahoma put a stop to PSO, (Public Service Company Of Oklahoma,) from siting a nuclear power plant a few miles outside of Tulsa Oklahoma. It would been about 12 to 15 miles west southwest of me here in Chouteau. Way too close for comfort to me

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
6. TEPCO is nothing next to GE. Where would they be without them?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:10 AM
Jun 2014

Hey, whats on MSNBC tonight? Wonder what they are saying about Fukushima?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
5. There is only one way GW gets that polluted
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:54 AM
Jun 2014

The cores from the 3 melted reactors are leaching out into the groundwater- GW.

That means the cores have burned down into the earth all the way to the lower level aquifer.

Which means the melted cores are un-recoverable and will probably be polluting the ground water for a thousand years or more.

FBaggins

(26,697 posts)
8. That post has exectly zero connection with reality
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:38 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Thu Jun 26, 2014, 07:10 AM - Edit history (1)

Unless we give partial credit for spelling.

They didn't find core materials. No uranium... or cesium... let alone plutonium or strontium. They found tritium.

Tritium is Hydrogen... it's part of the water molecule... so it can go wherever water can go.

Which necessarily includes the water table.

Tritium is by far the most common release from an operating reactor (though less common in bwrs)...so this could even be decades-old.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
10. Ice wall
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:19 PM
Jun 2014

The ice wall they are building landward of the melted cores has proven to be impossible. The ground is too hot to be able to be frozen because the cores have heated the ground and continue to heat the ground.

They probably knew this all along and are just using the ice wall process to actually try and cool the melted cores which are deep underground now.

I wish them luck. They are venturing into the unknown and the pollution is entering the pacific daily and will be for a thousand years.

The reality is that this is a grand experiment with all of us losers.

Hopefully this type situation can be stopped from happening again. The only way to do that is to shut them all down, now.

FBaggins

(26,697 posts)
11. Still no closer to reality. Sorry.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jun 2014
The ice wall they are building landward of the melted cores has proven to be impossible.

That's entirely within your own imagination. They've only just started drilling holes for the wall, they haven't even tried to cool it yet... let alone fail at the attempt. That's months away.

You took a bad translation of a bad translation and then invented your own theory for why it was happening... when it never happened in the first place.

And... as usual... the theory had no basis at all.

Fukushima I NPP Telephone Game (Nth Time): "Ice Plug for Trench Water Not Working" Morphed into "Frozen Soil Wall Around Reactor Buildings Not Working"

It involves both the Japanese media and the foreign media, both in Japanese and in English, following the usual pattern of:


Original Japanese article appears in the Japanese media;

Original Japanese article is then translated into English incorrectly;

English article freaks out the foreign readers;

English article is then translated back into Japanese;

Japanese readers freak out reading the translated Japanese article.


http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2014/06/fukushima-i-npp-telephone-game-nth-time.html


Then we add step 6 - Nutcases on enenews invent their own reality around the reasons for the japanese freak-out.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
12. Enenews nutcases?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:49 PM
Jun 2014

Hah. The nutcases are those who make excuses for the nuke mistakes.

The nuke supporters were the ones claiming nukes are safe. Now that their whole belief and faith system in the nukes has been utterly destroyed, the nukers are left with doing nothing more than blaming the victims. Which is what rightwingers do; blame victims.

The ice wall will not work as intended because the ground is over heated by the presence of the cores in the ground. However, it may help to keep the cores cool. Maybe.

FBaggins

(26,697 posts)
13. I suppose I could be more PC
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:36 PM
Jun 2014

People who do not live in the same reality as the rest of the world.

The ice wall will not work as intended because the ground is over heated by the presence of the cores in the ground

Yet stragely... this magic overheating doesn't show up anywhere else. You know... like on thermometers?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
14. Yep
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:58 PM
Jun 2014

Some people are still caught up in the nukes are safe religion and will do or say anything to keep that failed dogma alive.

Are you still stuck on the 'cores are not' hot falsity? Where are the cores? Deep underground, the cores melted through the metal containment then through the concrete and into the ground.

The managers of this disaster have been pumping tons of water on these cores to keep them cool. Much of that polluted water is running off into the ocean. They recognize the problem. Instead of using water, they are praying they can keep the cores cool with the ice wall process. I hope they succeed; life in the ocean can't live with the man made radiation flowing 24/7/365 into its living areas.

FBaggins

(26,697 posts)
17. Thanks for proving my point.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 09:06 AM
Jun 2014
Are you still stuck on the 'cores are not' hot falsity?

It's nowhere close to "falsity". It's your imaginary scenario that is itself nowhere close to reality.

Let me lay it out for you yet again. The amount of heat produced by the cores is not debatable... it's a knowable value. It would be a complex calculation to come up with an exact figure, but it's a physical constant for each isotope. I know that you imagine three white-hot cores down there well below the basements of their respective units... heating up the entire Pacific - but it simply isn't possible.

Unless fission restarted and the cores are active. That still wouldn't be enough to heat the oceans (as in one of the nutiest of your theories)... but at least it would make cooling impossible (the RE nutiness of the day). The problem with that is that there would be no way to hide it. The large garden hose worth of water that they're pouring into each reactor wouldn't come close (operating reactors use hundreds of tons of water per second... not 3-4 tons per hour). Fission necessarily means that large amounts of I131 would be created. That's incredibly easy to detect and it hasn't been found anywhere near Fukushima for well over three years.

Where are the cores? Deep underground, the cores melted through the metal containment then through the concrete and into the ground.

Nope... they're right where they've been since a few days after the event began. At least two (probably three) melted through the RPV into the PCV, and in at least one case ate through several centimeters of concrete. In no case is it thought to have eated through the steel shell of the PCV... let alone the several feet of reinforced concrete below that. Nobody knows whether a particular unit has 20% of the corium still in the RPV... or 40%... or none at all, but that's all that's meant by "don't know where the cores are". In no sense has it ever meant "they're somewhere in the ground under the buidings and we don't know where"

Instead of using water, they are praying they can keep the cores cool with the ice wall process.

Roughly as ludicrous as so many of your fantasies... but at least entertaining. You think they're putting ice walls all the way around all four reactors in order to cool the cores?
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
18. You have one point
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jun 2014

And that is only to whitewash away the failures of nuclear power.

It is sad someone like you is so bent out of shape in your foolish attempts to deny the reality that nuclear power is a killer.

In your post above you claim i say that Fuku is heating the 'entire' pacific. That fabrication of yours shows you will say anything. Like your claim that they use a garden hose worth of water to cool the cores.

Gawd, man, don't you see how foolish you are?

bananas

(27,509 posts)
15. ROFL - Talk about nutcases! FBaggins, you're using a site that links to Gary North!
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:58 PM
Jun 2014

Your source lists the following sites on his blogroll:

Market / Economic News, Analysis, Commentary

Drudge Report (news is fast)
...
Gary North's Specific Answers (paid site)
...
Stratfor.com
...


Drudge and Stratfor are bad enough, but Gary North?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North_%28economist%29

<snip>

North has written that the "starting point for all economic analysis" lies in the fact that "God [has] cursed the earth" in Genesis 3:17–19; this "made scarcity an inescapable fact of man's existence".[18] In his 1982 Dominion Covenant: Genesis, North wrote that mainstream modern economics, whether libertarian, conservative or liberal, is "in disintegration" because it is "humanist" in its approach and consequently rejects the notion that "biblical revelation" is necessary for sound economic theory. He also wrote that economics "must begin with the [Biblical] story of creation" if it is not to collapse into "total chaos".[19]

<snip>

North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[23] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[24][25] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[26]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[27][28]

<snip>

North predicted a Y2K catastrophe in print and on-line,[32] and predicted that a Y2K date roll-over failure of the global Information Technology (I.T.) infrastructure would precipitate severe disruption and the complete collapse of the international economy, leaving U.S. Christians to restore society following the collapse.[33][34]

<snip>


edit to add:

FBaggins

(26,697 posts)
16. Seriously? I'll tell you what... let me save you some embarassment.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:50 AM
Jun 2014

You delete that ridiculous post... and I'll delete this one - instead of posting links to the dozen or more times that you've used the exact same blog in your threads/posts.

indeed

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
9. water flows down from their mountians to the sea is a fact. radioactive mess is at edge of the sea.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 07:26 AM
Jun 2014

"volume of the polluted water under the earth grows daily by 400 tons"

It is NOT "radioactive water can leak into the sea", it does leak into the sea.

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