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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 03:41 PM Jun 2014

Bosnian Serbs erect statue to man who ignited WWI

Source: WCNC / AP

SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) -- Marking the eve of the centennial of the beginning of World War I in their own way, Bosnian Serbs on Friday unveiled a monument in their part of Sarajevo to the man who ignited the war by assassinating the Austro-Hungarian crown prince on June 28, 1914.

At the other end of the city, the Vienna Philharmonic orchestra was rehearsing for Saturday's grand EU-sponsored performance, planned as a symbolic start of a new century of peace at the place where the century of wars in Europe started 100 years ago.

The two separate events testify to the depth of lingering divisions in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where one side performed works of Austrian, German and French composers in a salute to European integration while the other celebrated the man who assassinated the emperor's heir as a national hero.

>

A century ago Austria accused Serbia of masterminding the assassination and attacked the country with backing from Germany. Serbia's allies, Russia and France, were quickly drawn in and later Britain, its sprawling Commonwealth empire and the United States also joined the fighting. When the mass slaughter known as the Great War ended in 1918, it had claimed some 14 million lives.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BOSNIA_WWI_MONUMENT?SITE=WCNC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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Bosnian Serbs erect statue to man who ignited WWI (Original Post) dipsydoodle Jun 2014 OP
Archduke Ferdinand was the last person who should've been targeted... Cooley Hurd Jun 2014 #1
Was a complete fuck up dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #2
I wonder what Europe would look like had Franz Ferdinand not been assassinated. Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #3
For starters Hitler would have remained of no consequence. dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #5
About the same salib Jun 2014 #6
But a small difference in timing might have, for instance, made a difference to Russia muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #8
Back in the 90s Kelvin Mace Jun 2014 #7
+1000! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2014 #15
Anything that makes Klink *and* Hogan facepalm has to be bad. malthaussen Jun 2014 #19
Compeltly? Dr. Strange Jun 2014 #22
Well, technically Kelvin Mace Jul 2014 #24
there's a lot on our dear dynastic friend A-H MisterP Jun 2014 #17
Would American rebels have killed George III's heir had they the chance? whatthehey Jul 2014 #25
No. Assassination is never OK. Coventina Jul 2014 #26
Not sure I can be that absolutist whatthehey Jul 2014 #27
Certainly, there can be gray areas during times of openly declared war. Coventina Jul 2014 #28
That's certainly in questionable taste. alarimer Jun 2014 #4
they cant seem to shake iamthebandfanman Jun 2014 #10
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #9
Well, then, Alex P Notkeaton Jun 2014 #11
IMO . . . another_liberal Jun 2014 #12
Jury results for #9 Lancero Jun 2014 #13
I agree with the hide. Saying all members of a group are alike is simply idiotic. n/t nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #14
Wow. That is some truly fucked-up thinking. Just... wow. n/t TygrBright Jun 2014 #16
Proving dumb never dies. malthaussen Jun 2014 #18
Amazing.. Historic NY Jun 2014 #20
Well, why not? The 9/11 memorial has a souvenir shop. malthaussen Jun 2014 #21
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Honoring a murderer? Coventina Jun 2014 #23
The assassination of Ferdinand was a spark but not the cause, imo. yellowcanine Jul 2014 #29
 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
1. Archduke Ferdinand was the last person who should've been targeted...
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 03:50 PM
Jun 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria#Political_views

Political views

Historians have disagreed on how to characterize the political philosophies of Franz Ferdinand, some attributing generally liberal views on the empire's nationalities while others have emphasized his dynastic centralism, Catholic conservatism, and tendency to clash with other leaders.[10] He advocated granting greater autonomy to ethnic groups within the Empire and addressing their grievances, especially the Czechs in Bohemia and the south Slavic peoples in Croatia and Bosnia, who had been left out of the Austro-Hungarian compromise of 1867.[26] Yet his feelings towards the Hungarians were less generous, often described as antipathy. For example, in 1904 he wrote that "The Hungarians are all rabble, regardless of whether they are minister or duke, cardinal or burgher, peasant, hussar, domestic servant, or revolutionary" and he regarded even István Tisza as a revolutionary and "patented traitor".[27] He regarded Hungarian nationalism as a revolutionary threat to the Habsburg dynasty and reportedly became angry when officers of the 9th Hussars Regiment (which he commanded) spoke Hungarian in his presence — despite the fact that it was the official regimental language.[11] He further regarded the Hungarian branch of the Dual Monarchy's army, the Honvédség, as an unreliable and potentially threatening force within the empire, complaining at the Hungarians' failure to provide funds for the joint army[28] and opposing the formation of artillery units within the Hungarian forces.[29]

He also advocated a careful approach towards Serbia - repeatedly locking horns with Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf, Vienna's hard-line Chief of the General Staff, warning that harsh treatment of Serbia would bring Austria-Hungary into open conflict with Russia, to the ruin of both Empires.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
2. Was a complete fuck up
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jun 2014

compounded those choosing to honour existing alliances.

I doubt that if projected in advance that 14 million would die as a result that those alliances would've held up.

salib

(2,116 posts)
6. About the same
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 04:21 PM
Jun 2014

The complex of alliances was already locked into place and the animosities abundant. It was nearly inevitable. The assassination was a pretext at best. Someone else would have arranged a Gulf of Tonkin.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,156 posts)
8. But a small difference in timing might have, for instance, made a difference to Russia
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 05:19 PM
Jun 2014

and its revolutions. Just things like the timing of the entry of Turkey into the war could have had knock-on effects.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
7. Back in the 90s
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 04:58 PM
Jun 2014

when Sarajevo had degenerated into a kill zone and the debate was hot and heavy about what the U.S./NATO/UN should do, a conservative of my acquaintance dismissed the whole situation:

Great Mind: "We have no business getting involved over there. Who cares if someone shoots someone in Sarajevo?"

Me: "Ever hear of Archduke Ferdinand and a guy named Princip?"

Great Mind: "No."

Me: "Of course you haven't, never mind."

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
19. Anything that makes Klink *and* Hogan facepalm has to be bad.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:06 AM
Jun 2014

I am truly astonished that a mind could be depraved enough to conceive this.

-- Mal

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
24. Well, technically
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 10:28 AM
Jul 2014

Klink wasn't a Nazi, that would have been Major Hoechstetter.

(Ok, I am pedantic, and you would have thought I would have caught the typo. I did, but didn't have any editing software to fix it. I am going to strip the caption and keep the image).

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
25. Would American rebels have killed George III's heir had they the chance?
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 01:34 PM
Jul 2014

Would it have been ok or not?

The future George IV was a pretty dissolute libertine by the way.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
27. Not sure I can be that absolutist
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 02:33 PM
Jul 2014

What's the difference between assassination and killing enemy commanders in insurrections or wars? Serbian nationalists certainly weren't trying to avoid war with Austria, just wage it in a way they had some hope, much like many rebels. Obviously both people were high enough up in the occupying nation's leadership to be material. Should occupied France not have killed German officers? Where, exactly, is the line? Does it take some formal war declaration to make it ok, or something else?

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
28. Certainly, there can be gray areas during times of openly declared war.
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 04:04 PM
Jul 2014

However, this was not the case with Ferdinand.

Also, what exactly was he guilty of, besides being the heir?

He was being assassinated for who he was, not his actions.

Certainly nothing admissible in any reputable court.

Therefore, clearly a crime and not an act of war.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
4. That's certainly in questionable taste.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 04:12 PM
Jun 2014

14 million dead and they choose to honor the assassin who started it all. Hmmm.

Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

 

Alex P Notkeaton

(309 posts)
11. Well, then,
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 06:17 PM
Jun 2014

we need a new Mount Rushmore, with the faces of Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz! How else are we gonna honor our war criminals, huh?

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
12. IMO . . .
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 06:37 PM
Jun 2014

Dedicating that statue is as close to endorsing future European wars as one could possibly get.

Some fuckin' people!

Lancero

(2,983 posts)
13. Jury results for #9
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 07:33 PM
Jun 2014

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

bigoted towards an entire people . there are ways to discuss this without things like "they are a sick sick SICK people".

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 27, 2014, 07:31 PM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alerter. Iamthebandfanman needs to check his/her ethnic hatred.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I found this to be borderline because the poster did half ass limit the condemnation but barely and real nastily so I'm supporting the hide. I will tell them that I knew a nice Serbian lady and knew her for a year and she did not fit that mold at all and was a friend to this black/mixed person.
TheKentuckian
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This isn't bigotry. This is racism.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: He may be right but this post could have been with a little more taste.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If this was written about any other entire group of people based on nationality, race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, it would not be viewed favorably and considered bigoted. Being about Serbians, should be considered no differently.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
21. Well, why not? The 9/11 memorial has a souvenir shop.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:45 PM
Jun 2014

Think Germany missed out not offering paid tours of Bergen-Belsen.

-- Mal

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
23. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Honoring a murderer?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 08:00 PM
Jun 2014

If that's one of your national heroes, you need to re-think your nation.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
29. The assassination of Ferdinand was a spark but not the cause, imo.
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 04:21 PM
Jul 2014

All of the major European powers were preparing for war, mistakenly thinking that the way to prevent war was to build up arms - rather than focusing on diplomacy. They also entered into alliances which guaranteed that the entry of one country into war would bring in more countries on their side. This was a recipe for world war.

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