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CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
Sat Dec 27, 2014, 09:20 AM Dec 2014

"Wieder Krieg in Europa? Nicht in unserem Namen!"

Roman Herzog, Antje Vollmer, Wim Wenders, Gerhard Schröder und viele weitere fordern in einem Appell zum Dialog mit Russland auf. ZEIT ONLINE dokumentiert den Aufruf.


Amerikanische und polnische Soldaten bei einer Übung in Polen im Mai 2014 | © Kacper Pempel/Reuters

Excerpt:

Mehr als 60 Persönlichkeiten aus Politik, Wirtschaft, Kultur und Medien warnen in einem Aufruf eindringlich vor einem Krieg mit Russland und fordern eine neue Entspannungspolitik für Europa. Ihren Appell richten sie an die Bundesregierung, die Bundestagsabgeordneten und die Medien.

Initiiert wurde der Aufruf vom früheren Kanzlerberater Horst Teltschik (CDU), dem ehemaligen Verteidigungsstaatssekretär Walther Stützle (SPD) und der früheren Bundestagsvizepräsidentin Antje Vollmer (Grüne). "Uns geht es um ein politisches Signal, dass die berechtigte Kritik an der russischen Ukraine-Politik nicht dazu führt, dass die Fortschritte, die wir in den vergangenen 25 Jahren in den Beziehungen mit Russland erreicht haben, aufgekündigt werden", sagt Teltschik zur Motivation für den Appell.

Unterzeichnet haben den Text unter anderem die ehemaligen Regierungschefs von Berlin und Brandenburg, Eberhard Diepgen und Manfred Stolpe, der ehemalige SPD-Vorsitzende Hans-Jochen Vogel, Alt-Bundeskanzler Gerhard Schröder, Alt-Bundespräsident Roman Herzog und der Schauspieler Mario Adorf.


LINK to Zeit Online:

http://www.zeit.de/politik/2014-12/aufruf-russland-dialog
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Wieder Krieg in Europa? Nicht in unserem Namen!" (Original Post) CJCRANE Dec 2014 OP
Most of us do not speak or read German. MADem Dec 2014 #1
"I know nothing!" - LiberalElite Dec 2014 #2
Raus! Raus! Schnell!!!! MADem Dec 2014 #8
Google says: bemildred Dec 2014 #3
I don't know German either... CJCRANE Dec 2014 #6
Summary: DetlefK Dec 2014 #4
There have been many cases where Igel Dec 2014 #7
I found a readable translation reorg Dec 2014 #5

MADem

(135,425 posts)
8. Raus! Raus! Schnell!!!!
Sun Dec 28, 2014, 06:27 AM
Dec 2014

Jawohl mein kommandant!! (or führer, frau or herr!)

Achtung!!

Bitter!

Ja/Nein!

Verboten!!!

Auf Wiedersehen!!

I know there's more, if I just think on it for a bit...!

I guess that goofy program did indeed live up to the phrase "Vee haf ways of making you talk!!!!"

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
3. Google says:
Sat Dec 27, 2014, 10:41 AM
Dec 2014
More than 60 personalities from politics, economy, culture and media warn forcefully in an appeal against a war with Russia and calling for a new policy of détente in Europe. Their call they make to the federal government, members of parliament and the media.

The call by former Chancellor advisor Horst Teltschik (CDU), the former Defence Secretary Walther Stützle (SPD) and former Vice-President of the Bundestag Antje Vollmer was initiated (Green). "We are talking about a political signal that the justified criticism of the Russian Ukraine's policy does not mean that the progress we have achieved over the past 25 years in relations with Russia will be terminated," Teltschik says the motivation for the appeal.

Have signed the text, inter alia, the former Government of Berlin and Brandenburg, Eberhard Diepgen and Manfred Stolpe, former SPD chairman Hans-Jochen Vogel, former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, former German President Roman Herzog and actor Mario Adorf.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
6. I don't know German either...
Sat Dec 27, 2014, 12:18 PM
Dec 2014

but I couldn't find any mention of this in the Western MSM in English. It was commented on in RT but I know that isn't a popular source here so I decided to post the original and leave it up to DU's resident language wizards to find a suitable translation, and...Viola!

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
4. Summary:
Sat Dec 27, 2014, 11:05 AM
Dec 2014

- The annexion of Crimea was illegal.
- Russia felt attacked when NATO proposed Georgia and Ukraine to join.
- Russia has historically always been a member of the european community and should not be isolated.
- Peace.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
7. There have been many cases where
Sat Dec 27, 2014, 12:45 PM
Dec 2014

peoples, countries, and individuals have felt attacked.

In many cases, not even hostile words were uttered. The attacks were perceived, interpreted to be present in some abstract sense. Invading, killing, even just beating up such "attackers" is usually punishable by law. There has to be intent to attack, for the most part, and some actual actions that constitute an attack. For the entire attack to happen solely in the mind of the self-perceived victim is invariably a horrible, horrible idea, however it may be falsely justified in political discussions.

Take Putin's statement last spring that the sanctions were an act of war. By that token, Israel, still under sanctions that date back decades, has been patient in not unilaterally attacking Lebanon, Iraq, Sa'udiyya, Syria or many other Arab states. The putative attacks by Israel against targets in Syria must be well justified and completely legal. Currently Ukraine would be justified in attacking Russian territory. Iran is more than justified in any actions it takes to blow up US military ships--or attack German ships, for that matter, since Germany has sanctions and has committed "acts of war" against Iran.

I rather doubt these "personalities" would say such acts would be justified.

You see, I doubt they really believe that "perceptions" are sufficient justification for attacking others unilaterally--unless the attacks don't really affect them but the consequences of reacting to the attacks do. They might lose money, they might lose leverage, they might be forced to see not repression (many looked at the USSR and only saw truth and light) but bloodshed. Heck, money might be diverted from domestic programs they want and their own sense of do-goodery in order to keep foreign women from being raped and children from being killed. Or even the worst thing possible--increased military expenditures (with the possibility of Germans being dragged into the actual fighting). And it pays to remember that if we support Russia, Russia will support you ... with contracts and orders, with continued royalties from entertainment, etc.

It's takes a strong character to give one's word and, when it hurts you to keep your word to do so cheerfully. In many Western cultures, for many people the best self-sacrifice is the self-sacrifice that brings you something--it's fine to get a warm fuzzy feeling from self-sacrifice, but even better if you can parlay that warm fuzzy feeling into a media campaign that increases your income or power.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
5. I found a readable translation
Sat Dec 27, 2014, 11:23 AM
Dec 2014

Last edited Sat Dec 27, 2014, 01:12 PM - Edit history (1)

(no such luck in any English newspaper, though).

The appeal (without introduction and closing remarks):

... We, the undersigned, appeal to the Federal Government of Germany to assume its responsibility for peace in Europe. We need a new policy of détente in Europe. This is only possible on the basis of equal security for all and mutually respected partners. The German government is not pursuing a go-it-alone policy, as long as it continues to call, during this stalemate, for calm and dialogue with Russia. The need of the Russians for security is as legitimate as is that of the Germans, the Poles, the Baltic States, and the Ukrainians.

We must also not push Russia out of Europe ... Since the Congress of Vienna in 1814, Russia has been a recognized global player in Europe. All who have tried to change that have failed violently, the last being the megalomaniacal Germany of Hitler, which set out in 1941 to murderously subjugate Russia.

We call upon the members of the German Bundestag, delegated by the people as their political representatives, to deal appropriately with the seriousness of the situation. . . . Whoever is constructing a bogeyman, putting the blame on only one side, is exacerbating tensions, when the signals should be for de-escalation.

We appeal to the media, to more scrupulously adhere to their obligation to provide unbiased reporting than they have hitherto done. Editorialists and leading commentators are demonizing entire nations, without fully taking their histories into account. Any journalist experienced in foreign affairs would understand the Russians' fear, since members of NATO in 2008 invited Georgia and Ukraine to join the Alliance. It is not about Putin. Heads of state come and go. What is at stake is Europe.

https://www.vetr.com/posts/6961775644-60-Prominent-Germans-Appeal-Against-Another-War-In-Europe-It-Is-Not-About-Putin-What


Here is another one:

https://cooptv.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/very-prominent-german-signatories-another-war-in-europe-not-in-our-name/
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