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Eko

(7,170 posts)
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:44 AM Jun 2014

Let Me Show You Why Edward Snowden is a Traitor and Not a Patriot

Did a search for this, could not find a dupe.
From the article http://www.forwardprogressives.com/let-me-show-why-edward-snowden-traitor-not-patriot/

For the sake of argument let’s say that everything Snowden stole pertaining to possible illegal activity by the NSA is 100% legit and every last bit of it is proven to be unconstitutional. Then yes, I would agree that he’s a patriot and a hero for risking everything to take that stand.

Except that’s not all he stole, nor is it all that he’s leaked.

Telling a newspaper in China that the United States government spied on Chinese computers isn’t “revealing unconstitutional surveillance of Americans” and leaking that classified information is illegal.

Writing an “open letter” trying to get Brazil to grant him political asylum by offering to help Brazil investigate United States surveillance, because Snowden leaked information about the U.S. spying on the Brazilian government, isn’t “standing up for the Constitutional rights of Americans.”

Saying that the NSA is “in bed” with Germany and other governments, working together on elaborate surveillance programs, isn’t “protecting the freedom of American citizens.”

Leaking documents showing that Sweden has helped the United States spy on Russia isn’t “being a patriot.”

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Let Me Show You Why Edward Snowden is a Traitor and Not a Patriot (Original Post) Eko Jun 2014 OP
Whatever Snowden and Greenwald are or are not only deflects from the realities. merrily Jun 2014 #1
+1 newfie11 Jun 2014 #2
+2 nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #4
Thank you Edward Snowden. SamKnause Jun 2014 #3
See...there's never been any question for me that Snowden is a traitor. n/t Chan790 Jun 2014 #5
Traitor is such a simple word Stuckinthebush Jun 2014 #6
We really don't need a new word. FBaggins Jun 2014 #7
Nah. Too simple Stuckinthebush Jun 2014 #8
Espionage against other nations isn't unconstitutional FBaggins Jun 2014 #9
He disagrees Stuckinthebush Jun 2014 #10
He really doesn't get a vote. FBaggins Jun 2014 #11

merrily

(45,251 posts)
1. Whatever Snowden and Greenwald are or are not only deflects from the realities.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:54 AM
Jun 2014

1. The USG should not have been using our tax dollars to spy on us without telling us.

2. The USG is violating the 4th Amendment --and what Scalia and his buddies or even Democratic nominated Justices may say to the contrary someday will not alter my view of the 4th Amendment, or of Scalia and his pals, or of the partisan nature of todays' SCOTUS.

3. I am glad that that info is out.


Stuckinthebush

(10,816 posts)
6. Traitor is such a simple word
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:13 AM
Jun 2014
Traitor - a person who betrays a country, cause or trust.
Betray - to give aid or information to an enemy


So, using these definitions Snowden is indeed a traitor because surely some of the information he released has aided the ever present "enemy".

Simple.

But, the larger question remains. Did Snowden release this information to harm the ideals of the US or to help? The fact that the US government has been collecting information on citizens is important for us to know. Is it ok for the government to do this? Snowden didn't think so and perhaps he felt he was acting as a patriot by letting all of us know.

Patriot - One who loves, supports and defends his country.

Damn, that makes it more difficult then. Is he a traitor or a patriot? He certainly feels that he is defending the ideals of his country by letting us know what this country is doing in our name. This is certainly patriotic. He isn't trying to hasten the fall of this country is he? No, it would seem that he wants us and the world to know that the government has been violating its own ideals.

So, a case can be made for both. We need an in between word.

Me? I'm glad to know what I know and would not have known it had it not been for Snowden. Although some of that info is harmful in the short term perhaps it is helpful in the long term.

FBaggins

(26,693 posts)
7. We really don't need a new word.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:29 AM
Jun 2014

Benedict Arnold was also not 100% villain. Nevertheless... he was a traitor.

Stuckinthebush

(10,816 posts)
8. Nah. Too simple
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:38 AM
Jun 2014

I don't think it can be demonstrated that he meant to harm the ideals of the US. But, he did give information to the "enemy". But, he likely felt he was acting patriotically. But, some information has caused irreparable harm. But, that information has started a much needed conversation that will perhaps strengthen us.

I'm not comfortable with the simple in this case. It's too easy.

FBaggins

(26,693 posts)
9. Espionage against other nations isn't unconstitutional
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:42 AM
Jun 2014

He couldn't possibly (rationally) believe that he was "acting patriotically" by releasing that kind of information.

If he stuck to information that was arguably evidence of unconstitutional behavior, he could reasonably feel that way... but he didn't.

Stuckinthebush

(10,816 posts)
10. He disagrees
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:45 AM
Jun 2014

He says that he was acting patriotically. Many agree.

Hence the need for a different word.

FBaggins

(26,693 posts)
11. He really doesn't get a vote.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:56 AM
Jun 2014

We certainly don't need a word that implies that he gets to decide whether he's a traitor.

Does he make an argument re: why espionage against a foreign power could possibly be unconstitutional? It has existed as long as we've been a nation (George Washington was our first spy master).

Many agree.

Obviously on the "enemy of my enemy" theory... but that's not good enough. They need to recognize that it's possible for someone to do something that you support... without accepting that anything else they ever do must be a good thing.

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