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Million Dollar Shack: Trapped in Silicon Valley's Housing Bubble (Original Post) yuiyoshida Oct 2015 OP
This is just so insane. These tech companies are going to have to start locating in LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #1
I think they should go to northern Maine. MADem Oct 2015 #2
I second that! AgentStepford Oct 2015 #5
I think it's time for a culture change in the tech industry. MADem Oct 2015 #7
When I was there people refused to move to other geographical areas. It's a mind set for some. RKP5637 Oct 2015 #42
All it will take is for one of the "Kewl Kidz" to say "Fuck this--it ain't working for me anymore" MADem Oct 2015 #43
But they prefer the SF weather. nt valerief Oct 2015 #51
thank you for this video AgentStepford Oct 2015 #3
I saw that, my first thought was.... yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #4
Agreed NikolaC Oct 2015 #6
and all these new townhouses are "luxury"... AgentStepford Oct 2015 #10
It's been crazy for decades. I had friends who owned in Palo Alto during the mid 80's Auggie Oct 2015 #8
I was recruited in the late 90's from RTP and could not afford to re-locate to a Palo Alto job Ford_Prefect Oct 2015 #9
they'd best tend to that illusion a bit better... AgentStepford Oct 2015 #14
Bay area needs to grow up! ErikJ Oct 2015 #11
What do you mean grow up...?? yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #12
Both Physically and mentally ErikJ Oct 2015 #13
The last time they went vertical for housing in any numbers the earthquakes brought it down. Ford_Prefect Oct 2015 #15
lol didn't see your post AgentStepford Oct 2015 #17
If thats the kind of place you want to live ...than go live there yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #30
Times change. The Bay area is the High-tech capital of the world now. ErikJ Oct 2015 #31
DUDE, IF you think this international city is Mayberry you yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #32
I agree. I wasnt talking about SF proper. ErikJ Oct 2015 #33
FINE... yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #35
Very beautiful. But the influx of rich Silicon V techies will destroy it ErikJ Oct 2015 #36
Not very likely yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #37
She'll eventually sell to somebody when the price is right ErikJ Oct 2015 #38
I think it's on the National Register of Historic Places. The developers will have to work around MADem Oct 2015 #46
Earthquakes. AgentStepford Oct 2015 #16
If Tokyo can figure it out would hope that American civil engineers can figure it out! ErikJ Oct 2015 #18
Tokyo doesn't sit at the edge of a semi-arid desert. Ford_Prefect Oct 2015 #19
Econ 101 concept: Supply and Demand ErikJ Oct 2015 #20
Regardless of demand there's no more WATER! Ford_Prefect Oct 2015 #21
Calif suburban sprawl lawns use more water than its people do ErikJ Oct 2015 #22
My point all along is that there is no wise choice in making housing density greater in the area. Ford_Prefect Oct 2015 #24
lol. Dont give them any ideas to move! ErikJ Oct 2015 #25
Nice to know you won't be moving here.... AgentStepford Oct 2015 #40
There's plenty of land, housing and water in northern Maine--and it's beautiful country. MADem Oct 2015 #57
New York doesn't have earthquake issues. Grow up? Who wants to be sleeping on the top floor MADem Oct 2015 #44
Watching this just makes me ill passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #23
There were stories 10 years ago about new grads getting that dream job Warpy Oct 2015 #26
Chinese investors are smart. A 5000 lot for a house in Manhattan would ErikJ Oct 2015 #27
They're buying a lot of Manhattan, too Warpy Oct 2015 #28
Reminds me of when the Saudis ran around buying up NY and elsewhere in the 70s. MADem Oct 2015 #45
The real problem with that is that they drive prices up Warpy Oct 2015 #47
This is entirely true. Often, though, they end up selling at a loss, but in the meantime, the MADem Oct 2015 #48
Selling at a loss only happens during deep recessions Warpy Oct 2015 #49
I seem to recall the Japanese took a bath from NYC to CA and HI. MADem Oct 2015 #50
Well, we know the bubble has popped in China Warpy Oct 2015 #52
Yeah, I guess they're trying to bribe people by trading a decent economy for some illlusion of MADem Oct 2015 #54
The economy is getting more decent for folks on the bottom Warpy Oct 2015 #55
BASEMENT WARS--thanks! I'll have a look. I love the Beeb, and ITV, and Channel 4, too. nt MADem Oct 2015 #56
The comment from the high end realtor sums up what's happened to some people... MrMickeysMom Oct 2015 #29
The techies must be pretty stupid to expect people to work for them ErikJ Oct 2015 #34
Must be why they are moving to places like Kansas City, Missouri Ford_Prefect Oct 2015 #39
Eventually a massive earthquake will hit, it will likely be one huge F'en mess. RKP5637 Oct 2015 #41
Right. Like in '89. nt valerief Oct 2015 #53
I've got a 3 bdrm bungalow Plucketeer Oct 2015 #58
Chinese are investing huge amounts in FL for EB-5 immigration visas. They need homes. madfloridian Oct 2015 #59

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
1. This is just so insane. These tech companies are going to have to start locating in
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 11:50 AM
Oct 2015

middle America. I remember that some of the chemical companies in South Arkansas use to build a plant and a subdivision next to it for the families to live. Right now the tech companies employees are just feeding the 1%.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. I think they should go to northern Maine.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:18 PM
Oct 2015

There's TONS of CHEAP land available there.

The communities would probably give them MASSIVE tax breaks to just move there.

There's a surplus of not just affordable, but DIRT CHEAP housing there.

There's a willing workforce to do the day-to-day stuff, and the tech experts could probably be persuaded to move there....there's a lot to like about northern Maine if you're an "outdoorsy" type. For people who don't like "outdoorsy" stuff, the infrastructure would surely follow the people in short order.

They could pay less in terms of salary, because housing AND cost of living would be much less.

It would be a win-win all round.

AgentStepford

(19 posts)
5. I second that!
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:44 PM
Oct 2015

There is no real reason for the tech companies to be here geographically. They don't need the Bay for import/exports, it's just pure chance that the tech revolution started here.

Take them!!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
7. I think it's time for a culture change in the tech industry.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:27 PM
Oct 2015

They come off as insufferable assholes. I think taking at least a CHUNK of the industry and putting it on the other side of the country, or in the heartland, would create a new and different vibe.

I think a chunk of the industry should go to northern Maine, and another chunk would do well to locate near Detroit, and help get that bit up and running again.

They're really fucking the hell out of San Francisco and environs the way things are going, now.

Also, moving might be regarded as "patriotic." Why? It would "repatriate" a shitload of US dollars that have migrated to China with all those bogus currency manipulations that the Chinese have engaged in over the years. We know that Chinese buyers are purchasing a lot of the properties in the Silicon Valley area, and driving up the prices. They aren't living in these apartments and houses they buy, they are simply dumping their money over here.

I say move out a lot of these tech companies to cheaper environments, and then watch the prices on the left coast slowly deflate to more reasonable and affordable ones, so people who are FROM there aren't pushed out and have to leave. End result will be that those Chinese buyers will be leaving a lot of their equity here in the USA. Heh, heh. Ten cents on the dollah!!

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
42. When I was there people refused to move to other geographical areas. It's a mind set for some.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 11:26 AM
Oct 2015

... but, as you say, there are absolutely other areas of the US that have just as much to offer as the bay area. Again, it's a mind set for some, and IMO stupid! If one is really good, one can command a very high salary in other parts of the US and with a lot more affordable housing. Like, who really wants to see 3/4's of their paycheck going into renting/buying someplace that is a dump compared to what one can obtain in other parts of the US. Also, with technology of today, many employees do not need to be centrally located.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
43. All it will take is for one of the "Kewl Kidz" to say "Fuck this--it ain't working for me anymore"
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:28 PM
Oct 2015

and pick up and move....and then, like lemmings, the little people will follow.

It just might take a flubber-mucker of an earthquake to make them see that they're in the wrong end of the world for the kind of work they're doing. Even if a third of them cleared off and took their custom elsewhere, that would go a long way towards easing the housing crisis--and crisis is not the right word, we need one that is stronger, still--that is enveloping that area.

AgentStepford

(19 posts)
3. thank you for this video
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:29 PM
Oct 2015

My husband, son and I live in the Bay Area and visit friends in Oregon during vacation. It makes my husband and me numb when we see how little the houses go for compared to the Peninsula. For the cost of our two bedroom apartment, we could be renting a three bedroom/three bath house on a half acre with mature trees.

The Rolls Royce Real Estate Lamprey doesn't seem to appreciate that the people being priced out due to not having "enough education" or who are not "working harder" could easily have more education, higher I.Q., and work longer hours than he.

NikolaC

(1,276 posts)
6. Agreed
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:21 PM
Oct 2015

I'm glad that I saw this video. It really is a terrible shame what has been happening to this area. Our family was relocated here only 3 1/2 years ago from Virginia. Our house there was 4200 sq ft. We wound up renting a 2 bedroom 1044 sq ft apartment here for a lot more than we were paying for our mortgage. Our rent has increased significantly over the last three years so that our landlord's rate could stay "competitive" with the rest of the cheaply built apartment homes in the area. For what we are paying right now, we have the privilege of hearing constant construction, thin walls and the occasional smell of the plant the next town over. We tried looking for someplace else to live in the area before renewing our lease and found that the rent that we are paying now was a better bet.

We are actually going to relocate out of the area soon since this move turned out to be a bit of an expensive disappointment. As for what that idiot realtor said in the documentary, that comment of his ticked me off to no end. We live around many very well educated people who are in a similar situation. What is going on here is nothing but pure greed. No one has $2,000,000 cash on hand for a 2 bedroom, 1400 sq ft house and it's insane to have to pay $3,200 for a 2 bedroom apartment and have that considered to be a bargain.

My other concern about this area is the fact that there is still a drought going on. How is that going to bode well for this state with the amount of construction and constant influx of new residents?

AgentStepford

(19 posts)
10. and all these new townhouses are "luxury"...
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:41 PM
Oct 2015

or incredibly lavish retirement centers. Big Money from out of state are the only ones who can afford them.

How in the world are these people going to have goods and services if there aren't even any slums for the workers to live? The apartment I live in used to be the "slum" area of our S.F. suburb. It got bought and refurbished, and we were one of the few lucky ones not to be evicted.

Auggie

(31,059 posts)
8. It's been crazy for decades. I had friends who owned in Palo Alto during the mid 80's
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:28 PM
Oct 2015

when "shack" homes were selling $350,000. In those days that was a huge sum for modest 3 bedroom ranches -- everyone rolled their eyes like today.

The pendulum will swing back when 1) companies start having trouble recruiting workers and have to relocate, 2) financial markets burst again, or 3) the "Big One" levels most of the Peninsula.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
9. I was recruited in the late 90's from RTP and could not afford to re-locate to a Palo Alto job
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:19 PM
Oct 2015

even at twice the income. It didn't make sense to spend so much for a mortgage and still drive 2 hours each way in traffic or work nights and have no life. You had no spare income at all. You spent 4 hours a day in a car that was stunningly expensive to insure and maintain. No time for your family who likewise had little spare money. All this to work in the heart of an industry that turned over staff and technical positions at the drop of an IPO. Great for you if you had a few million and major stock in the company or owned the copyrights. Lousy if you were working for them. Which is to say nothing at all of the pressure to deliver the products that drove the great profit engines.

I couldn't go and leave my family in NC, as some did. I couldn't accept what would have been nightmarish traffic and living conditions. It once was a joke in a movie but by that point it was becoming something worse. Everyone I knew there said it was the opportunity to get in on the deal of a lifetime, like at Microsoft, Cisco, Intel or Apple. Most of the people I knew who went there have since moved away to Portland or Missoula, or somewhere else more affordable.

I heard it best compared to the gold rush. That the boom pricing will collapse when the source of all the money runs down, etc, etc. As long as the gods of IT want to share lattes together with the proles they employ and pretend we're all one big family the illusion will continue and the prices will keep on climbing just as they have in Hollywood.

AgentStepford

(19 posts)
14. they'd best tend to that illusion a bit better...
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 03:26 PM
Oct 2015

I've been seeing conspicuous consumption more and more lately.

If we walk away from the lattes, it's a bit extreme to pivot to pitchforks...

But to me that is the best option. How does one surgically apply a pitchfork? One wouldn't want to be all willy-nilly. Or should one go with the torch?

My husband has crap for a parachute, so no loss.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
11. Bay area needs to grow up!
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 03:10 PM
Oct 2015

Its basically a Hong Kong trying to be a flat low-density suburb. San Francisco CITY pop density is only 17,000 / s mile while NY's is 27,000 while Hong Kongs is 57,000 people/s mile! The Palo Alto San Jose pop density is probably much much less than SF's. Grow up Bay area! Youd think if these techies were soooo smart they'd be able to figure this out for their employees.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
13. Both Physically and mentally
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 03:22 PM
Oct 2015

The pop density of San Jose for instance is only 5000 people/Sq mile. Hong Kongs is 11 times that! So they need to build massively more apt towers. Instead of more freeways. The Bay area still thinks it has to be a flat suburb but its too immature to drop that old American dream of a house with white picket fence. Compare HK's sky line vs San Jose's skyline. What a joke,



Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
15. The last time they went vertical for housing in any numbers the earthquakes brought it down.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 03:39 PM
Oct 2015

There is also the question of enough water for housing. Let alone the IT industry usage.

The real problem is that everyone wants to be nearby in the "industry". It is an article of faith in the IT universe that if you get too far from the great big center then you're too far behind the curve of the cutting edge to be profitable, relevant, cool, you-pick-the-adjective. To a limited degree that is accurate in the face to face context of who works with whom. I feel it is over-rated as a measure of what's hot and who's useful (and therefore profitable).

yuiyoshida

(41,759 posts)
30. If thats the kind of place you want to live ...than go live there
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 08:36 PM
Oct 2015

I like my City the way it is. We've had an NBA Championship team, we have had Two teams that have been in the World Series and have one, one of those teams, several times in this last decade. We have had a winning football teams on both sides of the bay... one more recent than the other. I like this city, and FRANKLY there isn't much room on this peninsula. We have had the Democratic National convention here....in the 1980s. A person growing up in the Bay Area can not be much prouder of this area and its a liberal minded city. So no, this is no Chicago or NYC, thank goodness. You want a large city, go south to Los Angeles. OH, and we have some of the best restaurants in the world, right here in our city by the bay.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
31. Times change. The Bay area is the High-tech capital of the world now.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 08:49 PM
Oct 2015

And it still pretends to think its Mayberry suburb USA. Time for the big leagues. What they need is a Trump or some other skyscraper developer to give them a kick in the butt.

yuiyoshida

(41,759 posts)
32. DUDE, IF you think this international city is Mayberry you
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 09:14 PM
Oct 2015

you are clearly delusional. We don't need some BLADE RUNNER SCI FI fantasy world in San Francisco. That's what Disneyland is for. We don't need any butt ugly Trump towers in this city. You wanta Trump Tower? Go to Las Vegas. This city is one of the best looking cities on the West Coast. Its fine the way it is. God, what's next? You gonna suggest we pave over the NAPA VALLEY Vineyards and then claim its a waste to have the California Red Wood trees because, they block the view!

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
33. I agree. I wasnt talking about SF proper.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 09:25 PM
Oct 2015

I was talking Mountain View and Palo Alto the heart of Silicon Valley which is 40 mi away from SF. U can NOT be the hi-tech capital of the world and have a pop density of only 4000 people / sq mi ubnless u want to pay your employees $300,000 just to make rent.

SF's is 17,000 people sq mi. which is decent but still WAY below Hong Kong's 57,000 sq /mi. Manilla's is even higher yet at 111 million people/sq mi..

yuiyoshida

(41,759 posts)
35. FINE...
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 09:59 PM
Oct 2015

Then Build your damn Super High Rise apartments in Palo Alto, or even SANTA CLARA next to the new 49ers stadium for all I care. I live a mile from the Ocean. I love that I can still walk out my door and see the Ocean from my house. I love that I can walk four blocks north and come to my CULTURAL CENTER in Japantown, and eat my kind of food, and be with my kind of people, and share my Japanese heritage with the rest of the Country that comes as thousands of visitors every year. THOSE are the things that are important to me.

I bet you didn't know there are only three Japantowns in the entire USA...all of them in California. San Jose, Los Angeles and ours here in San Francisco. I live a block away from the largest Japantown in the entire USA.

This is what is important to me... and its important to the culture that makes up my city.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
36. Very beautiful. But the influx of rich Silicon V techies will destroy it
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:34 PM
Oct 2015

They like the high density vibrancy of SF so are all moving there and raising the rents too high for anybody else. I know a hi paid salesman in SF that has to commute all the way from Oakland every day cuz he cant afford to live in SF.
So if the South Bay doesnt get their act together for higher density say goodbye to Japan Town.

yuiyoshida

(41,759 posts)
37. Not very likely
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:45 PM
Oct 2015

As I said, there are only three Japantowns in the entire....entire USA. None of these will be gone. They are much a part of San Francisco as is CHINATOWN, and the Asian community will never let these iconic heritage centers be ripped down. And as far as rent increases, many of the old buildings have Rent Control, which effect buildings built prior to 1987. I live in such a place and I know for a fact, that while the landlords can raise the rent, they can only raise it in very small amounts, unless the tenant moves out. I am not going anywhere, and she is not planning on selling this place, she would be crazy to do so.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
38. She'll eventually sell to somebody when the price is right
Wed Oct 28, 2015, 12:21 AM
Oct 2015

Last edited Thu Oct 29, 2015, 01:46 PM - Edit history (1)

or when she dies her heirs probably will.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
46. I think it's on the National Register of Historic Places. The developers will have to work around
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:43 PM
Oct 2015

it. I think there are also state protections to preserve some of those classic neighborhoods in that city (as well as others) but someone from CA is probably better equipped to speak to that than me.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
18. If Tokyo can figure it out would hope that American civil engineers can figure it out!
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 03:57 PM
Oct 2015

or at least steal their technology. I believe Tokyo skyscraper apts have to be built to withstand an EQ 9 magnitude. The high-rise apts just sway in big ones in Tokyo.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
19. Tokyo doesn't sit at the edge of a semi-arid desert.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 04:16 PM
Oct 2015

I don't know what Tokyo does for water. I know they currently depend on some very dodgy nuke plants for power.

While it may be possible to construct the same housing in response to earthquakes that doesn't make it wise to do it at that location. The IT industry can operate almost anywhere. It grew up near Stanford and Cal-tech but it could exist almost anywhere else.

The owners and managers of the IT Cult don't really want to interfere with the golden goose on that level. Hollywood used to operate in the LA basin and nearby areas. Then someone figured out they could make quite a few equally good movies in places that did not require the same rent. Until the government of NC went rogue there were quite a few film companies using Wilmington as an eastern base for movie and TV work.

That same approach could be taken by the IT industry, and some have explored doing so.

The property and rent costs in the SF/ Valley area are mostly due to extreme greed rather than anything else. Building more density will not make it go away. It did not do so in LA, NY, DC or Atlanta. Another answer would be for the State and County government to regulate pricing and rents as they do in some other municipalities- not the best answer.

One way some towns have used to control growth is to require businesses to have and maintain adequate parking for employees and clients. I wonder if the same kind of rules for housing employees could be applied to corporations in the Valley? Wouldn't that be a whole new Hiring perk to negotiate?

Given the likely changes in climate we are about to enjoy wouldn't it be a wise corporate planner that took them into account and developed corporate campuses in areas less likely to be affected than California?

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
20. Econ 101 concept: Supply and Demand
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 04:37 PM
Oct 2015

Quite simple: The more the living units in a given area and a given demand the lower the rent or price will be.

The real problem is the entrenched American car/ freeway culture and dream of a house with front and backyard. Its time the Bay Area drops that childish dream of commuting 100 miles just to have a 5000 sq ft yard where you become a stranger to your own family just to get to work and back.

Palo Alto the center of Silicon Valley has a pop density of just 4000 /sq mi. while Hong Kong has a pop density of 57,000 / sq mi. Time to grow up Silicon Valley.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
21. Regardless of demand there's no more WATER!
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 05:06 PM
Oct 2015

You cannot infinity increase population density in the middle of a major region-wide drout. Going vertical only gets you more people into less lateral space.

Eliminating or reducing metropolitan vehicles is certainly a desirable piece of the answer. But the real issue is still that there is too much population pressure for the location regardless of the pricing. It is much more reasonable to move the industry than to overbuild the infrastructure to the point of absolute environmental collapse.

We have the same problem in NC. Wake County now contains more than one million people and is suffering from the same demands of urban sprawl. There is not enough water regionally to keep expanding the county population at it's present rate of increase. That means that no matter how tall you build the housing you cannot supply enough water to those residences and the service businesses, employers, schools, restaurants and other infrastructure they would also require. One result is that the surrounding 7 counties are now inundated with the spreading demand for somewhere to live, eat, sleep, and go to school, created by so many more people living and working in Wake county. The real answer is to move some of the work a bit further from the absolute center of the local universe. QED

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
22. Calif suburban sprawl lawns use more water than its people do
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 05:26 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.cadroughtprep.net/images/06billl_inserts.pdf

And agriculture uses 80% of Calif water. Human use isnt really that high, maybe 5% or less. If Dubai can do it with absolutely NO water I think Calif can do it.

The much bigger threat is the enormous amount of gas Ca uses in commuting to its precious houses 50 miles away in the burbs.

If there is an oil shortage or embargo Ca will shut down along with Silicon Valley. But if all people had to do was take an elevator down the hi-rise to catch the next light rail in 5 minutes for a 5 min commute, that would be solved.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
24. My point all along is that there is no wise choice in making housing density greater in the area.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 05:50 PM
Oct 2015

There are simply too many people there now and it will not get better by piling them higher. The principle regional water sources are nearly overwhelmed. The major aquifer feeding the area water supplies is in dire condition and may never recover. It simply defies logic to dramatically increase population in an area like this, regardless of changes in agricultural usage.
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/california-drought-is-driving-the-depletion-of

It will matter how much worse it will get with more people crammed onto the peninsula. Just because it is possible to build greater density does NOT make it wise to do so, regardless of how many lawns people water or how many people want a lawn.

This is an old debate in planning circles. What is the common good and how much of it can you manufacture in the infrastructure, and how much infrastructure is a good idea in the place where the people are. What you come to discover is that there are only so many people who can occupy a space and still receive what is accepted as enough of the common good. After that point you need a new place for the people to be or you need fewer people.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
25. lol. Dont give them any ideas to move!
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 06:09 PM
Oct 2015

Becuz most likely it would be offshore. Killing more American jobs.

Its pathetic that the Bay Area has such a low pop density 5000/sq mi and such a high housing demand. Tokyo Hong Kong, NYC and Paris all have pop densities many many times higher. Less water is used per person with higher pop density too.

Californians are just stuck in the 1950's where they think u can only be happy with a fancy car, a yard and white picket fence and 3 hr commutes every day. Backward idiots.

AgentStepford

(19 posts)
40. Nice to know you won't be moving here....
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:07 PM
Oct 2015

...if the Bay Area offends you so much.

You know, it's been shown that high population density lends itself to antisocial, even hostile behavior.

Just saying.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
57. There's plenty of land, housing and water in northern Maine--and it's beautiful country.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:24 PM
Oct 2015

Aroostook County is right on the border with Canada, there are a couple of airports (a small one and a regional one) within striking distance, Rte. 95 ends at the Canadian border and turns into a Canadian highway....and nice lakes all over--swimming, boating, jet skiing, ice fishing, skating, hunting, skiing, snowboarding, cool little towns and villages that are just BEGGING for a make-over ...a pristine place that these young princes could make into their own utopia.

Even the winters are neat--it's a DRY cold!!!

If I were rich, that's where I'd go. Clean air, plenty of water, and a willing workforce that wouldn't be fussy about doing those "non-tech" jobs. They could change the landscape of the state and the influence of it as well.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
44. New York doesn't have earthquake issues. Grow up? Who wants to be sleeping on the top floor
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:29 PM
Oct 2015

during a Big One?

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
23. Watching this just makes me ill
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 05:49 PM
Oct 2015

I used to live in the bay area, but left in '79 or '80. I"m so glad I did. I wouldn't want to be there now.

That real estate guy must be friends with Romney...heh...I bet he loves people who can afford car elevators in their homes.

I think the saddest part of the video is the property being sold for investment value to other nationalities, and then just sitting there empty, because it's value will go up so fast and so high, it's not even worth renting it out for astronomical prices.

I don't like what is happening on this planet at all.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
26. There were stories 10 years ago about new grads getting that dream job
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 06:17 PM
Oct 2015

in Silicon Valley and living in their cars for months while they saved up enough to rent a studio apartment. The area has been just plain nuts for a very long time.

Now the Chinese investors are moving in, and that means it will be just like Vancouver. Don't expect any help from elected officials, all they can see are the dollar signs of an increased tax base.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
27. Chinese investors are smart. A 5000 lot for a house in Manhattan would
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 07:27 PM
Oct 2015

cost probably $15 million or more. So $1 or 2 million is a steal. Just sit on it empty waiting to sell it for a hi-rise in the near future. Plus the fact they cant actually own a house in China just lease for 99 yrs.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
28. They're buying a lot of Manhattan, too
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 07:41 PM
Oct 2015

but they're buying the condos, not the land. They're also investing in London, Paris, Dubai. There seems to be a lot of money floating around China with nowhere to go.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
45. Reminds me of when the Saudis ran around buying up NY and elsewhere in the 70s.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:33 PM
Oct 2015

Then the Japanese were running around investing in real estate like crazy in the 80s.

The nice thing about real estate? The bums can't take it with them!

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
47. The real problem with that is that they drive prices up
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:16 PM
Oct 2015

while taking living space off the market, leading to an even bigger housing crunch for the rest of us. Some places have huge restrictions on foreigners buying up real estate. Cities are going to have to start doing that if they don't want to become ghost towns owned by foreigners waiting for another group of plutocrats to come along and bid it up a little more so they can turn a profit.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
48. This is entirely true. Often, though, they end up selling at a loss, but in the meantime, the
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:30 PM
Oct 2015

space remains unoccupied so that does impact the residents of the region.

I don't know if we'd go so far as to restrict purchases to just citizens, though. A lot of cities LIKE these foreigners--they pay into the tax base, but they don't use municipal services, like schools, roads, police, fire, etc., at least not overmuch.

They're like tourists--the come for a bit, they spend,spend, spend...and then they leave.

Perhaps a higher tax on unoccupied buildings, or something....?

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
49. Selling at a loss only happens during deep recessions
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:47 PM
Oct 2015

when they cut "underperforming assets" loose. When things are booming or even holding steady, they keep what they've got in an iron fisted grip and never think anything through to its effect on people, on cities, on entire regions.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
50. I seem to recall the Japanese took a bath from NYC to CA and HI.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:47 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/02/business/headache-for-japanese-investors.html?pagewanted=all

Headache for Japanese Investors
By JEANNE B. PINDER
Published: June 2, 1993

They came, they saw, they bought -- and now they're stuck.

During the real estate boom of the 1980's, Japanese investors purchased or financed tens of billions of dollars of American property, including prestigious properties like Rockefeller Center, the Tiffany building and the Exxon building in Manhattan alone.

But now these buildings, like many properties bought at the time nationwide, are worth a fraction of the prices paid for them. And so the Japanese are now forced to consider the same unpleasant choices that their American counterparts have already been confronting: foreclosing on mortgages, writing down loans and thus acknowledging grave losses, or selling the whole mess to someone else, almost certainly at a loss.

Some Troubled Properties

Among the most noticeable problems are these:

*The Mitsubishi Estate Company bought 80 percent of the shares in Rockefeller Group Inc., which owns Rockefeller Center and other assets, starting in 1989. While a mortgage for $1.3 billion on 12 of the center's buildings is held by a real estate investment trust, the trust's appraisal last year found that the buildings were worth only $1.2 billion, given a weak market. Their value could be further shaken by lower rents next year, when leases covering about 40 percent come up for renewal.

*The Shuwa Corporation of Tokyo has been struggling under $10 billion in debt accumulated as it bought the ARCO Plaza complex in Los Angeles, the U.S. News & World Report Building in Washington and other properties. Shuwa's banks are trying to assist it, but in New York, according to published reports, the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company has started to foreclose on an 18-story office building at 551 Madison Avenue at 55th Street that is partly owned by Shuwa.

*A bankruptcy plan for the 1,400-room Westin Bonaventure hotel, the biggest in downtown Los Angeles, was approved in December, after the owners, the Mitsubishi Trading Company and John C. Portman, a developer, defaulted on their $75 million mortgage. The Waterfront Hilton hotel in Huntington Beach, Calif., filed for bankruptcy protection last month after defaulting on its $57.7 million construction loan after the Los Angeles branch of Dai-Ichi Kangyo Bank moved to foreclose.


Japanese banks in the United States have seen their bad loans rise to 13.3 percent of their debt, from 5 percent two years ago, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. At the same time, the Fed reports, all banks in the United States, including Japanese banks, have seen their past-due real estate loans drop to 6.7 percent from 8.8 percent.....Japanese bankers, like their American counterparts, generally decline to discuss the situation publicly, citing the confidences of their clients. Yet some people who follow the issue say the real estate problems of Japanese banks are far worse than the Federal Reserve figures suggest.....



Oftentimes, when the wealthy buy up 'expat' properties, it's suggestive of trouble at home. A lot of rich Russians are buying apartments/houses/condos in NYC, much like Persians bought properties in Teherangeles (LA) and TX and OK before the fall of the Shah. They ended up using these properties as bolt holes when the government went wobbly.

Could it be there's trouble in Putin's paradise?

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
52. Well, we know the bubble has popped in China
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:14 PM
Oct 2015

but instead of cracking down, the government seems to be liberalizing a lot of things, especially the Draconian one child policy.

Other wealthy people are definitely thinking of bolt holes. London is especially friendly to billionaires right now.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
54. Yeah, I guess they're trying to bribe people by trading a decent economy for some illlusion of
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:26 PM
Oct 2015

more freedom!

London was one of the Saudi vanguards back in the day--those guys bought up a lot! They do have a lot of luxury condo buildings there that are paid for but lightly populated. I'm sure it's great for the people who live there--imagine having four neighbors on your floor, only none of 'em are ever there! Talk about privacy in a high rise...!

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
55. The economy is getting more decent for folks on the bottom
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:32 PM
Oct 2015

because they've been quietly raising wages for some time. Western factories are still hell holes to work in, so they've got a long way to go, but at least they're working on it.

The BBC has done quite a few documentaries on what's happening to London and quite a few of them are online at You Tube. "Basement Wars" is particularly fun, it details what happens when billionaires can't change those historic buildings in high priced areas like Mayfair.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
29. The comment from the high end realtor sums up what's happened to some people...
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 08:14 PM
Oct 2015

... I mean the ones like him... bottom feeders who have been hypnotized into thinking human beings are only surrounded by high income and IQs that equate with high income. That whole, "working harder" makes you filthy rich lie.

I just want to spit up.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
34. The techies must be pretty stupid to expect people to work for them
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 09:37 PM
Oct 2015

when 3/4 of their income is eaten by rent. Google et al should be building "smart" apt. highrises all over the place in Mt View.

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
41. Eventually a massive earthquake will hit, it will likely be one huge F'en mess.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 11:18 AM
Oct 2015

I'm quite familiar with SFO and surrounding areas.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
58. I've got a 3 bdrm bungalow
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 05:13 PM
Oct 2015

on two and a half acres - just four hours from the Bay area, in the central valley - less than an hour by helicopter or private plane. Two and a half picturesque acres with a good panorama view of the Sierra Nevada mountains - on a private drive no less. I'd take half a mil in a heartbeat! I'm getting too old to keep the place in shape. Keep horses, Alpacas, Emu, dogs. Lotsa LOTSA hummingbirds year round. Good, quiet neighbors. C'mon someone - help me out here!

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
59. Chinese are investing huge amounts in FL for EB-5 immigration visas. They need homes.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 08:14 PM
Oct 2015

That might explain some of it. They have invested millions in charter schools, probably other businesses. Takes $500,000 I think for the visa. They need homes. I can't find info on home sales but I heard a realtor speak about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027252310

Thanks to a little discussed law passed in 2000 at the end of Bill Clinton’s presidency, Banks and Equity firms that invest in charter schools and other projects in underserved areas can take advantage of a very generous tax credit, as much as 39% to offset their expenditure in such projects. In essence, that credit amounts to doubling the amount of money they have invested in just 7 years.. Moreover, they are allowed to combine that tax credit with job creation credits and other types of credit, and collect interest payments on the money they are lending out-all which adds up to far more than double in returns.

And it’s not just U.S. investors who see the upside of these investments. Rich donors throughout the world are now sending money to fund our charter schools. Why? Because if they invest at least $500,000 to charters under a federal program called EB-5, they’re allowed to purchase immigration visas for themselves and family members, yet another mechanism in place to ensure that the money keeps rolling in.


That video is scary...being priced out of your home.
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