Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Baitball Blogger

(46,698 posts)
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 11:39 AM Jan 2019

The lies that neighbors tell their landscapers.

The neighbor allows the spite hedge to grow twenty feet tall before bringing in a crew to take it down to an eight foot level. I have been watching this pattern since he moved in a few years back. This is the neighbor (wife) who was trespassing on my property, which seems to have stopped with a little help from the local police. But, trespassing seems to be unavoidable in another way.

For reasons that I still cannot understand, her husband built a plant bedding along their driveway that runs parallel to the house, and then cuts to the front along the property line. In other words, they cannot drag heavy plant trimmings from the back to the front of the house without...wait for it...without trespassing across my property. Not unless you walk over that strange flower bed on their property.

So, the dilemma is that any time that hedge gets cut down, the workers have to cut well into my property to get around a power box near the road. This had to be known at the time that planter was built.

Since I had a no-confrontation-is-the-best-policy rule for this neighbor, I stayed away from their landscapers. But this time, I went to speak to them, and this is what I was told. They said, "Did you know that they're paying to trim your hedge?"

My hedge? I asked. It's not my hedge. (Maybe he was insinuating that when someone puts a spite hedge up, it suddenly obligates you to maintain your side of the bushes.) I told them that I understand there will be heavy branches that need to be moved up to the front, and in those cases, you may cut across my property, but please use their property for everything else.

That's when they told me that the neighbor had talked to me about this job.

What? I swear I never get accustomed to it when someone reveals that someone else has lied. I told the poor landscaper that the neighbor and I haven't spoken to each other in years and that the hedge should never have been planted.

Just for backfill: it was the previous owner who planted the bush, though I suspect that the new neighbors were not completely unknown to them, or at least, they had mutual friends, which facilitated the sale. It's just conjecture. But it would certainly explain why no one came by to stake the property line. I see that a lot around here. Sales are made without anyone bothering to determine their legal property boundaries, and I suspect it has something to do with a certain element in this neighborhood that thinks that encroaching on the golf course property is part of the perks of living along a fairway. I mean, why set up an orange flag when some neighbors have managed to encroach twenty feet into the golfcourse with their own, planted and maintained hedges?

I swear, it's these overreaches that are so common in this neighborhood that creates a need to draw a line and forewarn outsiders that we're not all of like minds around here.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The lies that neighbors tell their landscapers. (Original Post) Baitball Blogger Jan 2019 OP
You have my sympathy. Long-time neighbors have spooky3 Jan 2019 #1
No good deed goes unpunished. Baitball Blogger Jan 2019 #6
Good quote! Hope things will go better. nt spooky3 Jan 2019 #7
As a veteran of boundary line wars with neighbors Bayard Jan 2019 #2
I know about the fight you're talking about because a lot has been written Baitball Blogger Jan 2019 #3
These weren't ranchers by any means Bayard Jan 2019 #4
Yes, you are correct. Baitball Blogger Jan 2019 #8
easy solution: IcyPeas Jan 2019 #5

spooky3

(34,430 posts)
1. You have my sympathy. Long-time neighbors have
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 11:51 AM
Jan 2019

Used my water hose, let their kids play in my yard, and done other things that I tolerated because I didn’t want a petty dispute and they were otherwise nice. But I finally had to put my foot down and they went berserk. I had to hire a lawyer to write a letter telling them what’s what, and that if they had anything more to say about it, they had to talk to him. No more problems. It’s a shame, but when people just continue to disrespect you or your property rights you have no choice.

Baitball Blogger

(46,698 posts)
6. No good deed goes unpunished.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 06:23 PM
Jan 2019

Best quote from the nets:

Now that I am older the one thing I have learned is why the Grinch wants to live alone with his dog on the hill.

Bayard

(22,048 posts)
2. As a veteran of boundary line wars with neighbors
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 12:04 PM
Jan 2019

Tread very carefully. I spent 8 years in court with these evil people. They destroyed all of my boundary fencing, entry wall/gate, other property, and killed some of my animals. I had to pay attorneys thousands of dollars, where their's worked pro bono. I had to get restraining orders. I got beat up. I ended up losing my farm. It all started with their cattle being let loose to ruin my property.

Check out the laws on landscaping or fencing, that sits right on the boundary line in your state. If it has been there for however many years, and you have no record of making a complaint, you may be stuck with it---AND its maintenance. Do you have your own survey?

Baitball Blogger

(46,698 posts)
3. I know about the fight you're talking about because a lot has been written
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:58 PM
Jan 2019

about cattle ranchers who have a manifest destiny idea about property. That is definitely a huge problem, and I think the laws should have already been on your side to make it easier to protect your property.

On a smaller scale, I experienced something similar that involved property rights. Something that should never have happened if the laws were meant to protect a homesteader. It was something that revealed the true nature of Central Florida. Except, no one wants to talk about it, so new people continue to walk in without understanding what they're being subjected to. I will make an effort to explain it, because it sounds like you have been through a harrowing experience and can understand it on a personal level.

The problem with my neighbors disrespecting property lines has a history that goes back to the nineties. At least, that's my opinion. It's not just the activity of one bad neighbor. It's a collective mindset of a group that has or had back channel access to the political powers during that decade. It was a crazy time and everything came off the rails, which is what you would expect in a Republican leaning community that had very little respect for government regulation. In their favor, it didn't seem like local government had much respect for government regulation either. By the time they found a purpose for it, it was too late. This story is about what happens when the private sector takes the reigns of our local government. Spoiler: the rest of us end up with the worst of both.

We purchased our home in 1994. The neighbor next door, who was the president of our Association during this footloose era, had already put up a rail fence twenty feet into the golfcourse property. "To keep the golfers off his property," he claimed. They were nice neighbors for the first two years, and then an insanity set into this community that began in 1996.

During that time, one of our neighbors was part of a resistance group that was playing an active role in the fight against the then owner of the golfcourse and Country Club. This resistance group was opposed to the owner's plans to build two properties on the golfcourse. The plans were for single family, upscale homes, which was a huge improvement over the high density vested rights that he had when he first purchased the property. The Country Club owner received approval to build single family homes based on compromises he obtained through prior lawsuits. In other words, Zoning by Litigation.

He also wanted to finish the last phase of the community I live in. This would have been a third property that he wanted to work on at the same time, though he didn't own the property.

You have to pay attention to all the moving parts, and back in the 1996-1998 time frame, there were two major moving pieces to pay attention to. The first: the development of the two properties near the country club had heavy opposition, mostly by its members. It became a hostile situation and strategies ranged from efforts to buy his property, to taking over City Hall through the election process. That's my interpretation of what I witnessed or read from researching public records of that time.

And, we will start by saying that it appears that they intended to use the power of the city to stall or interfere with the developer's right to develop his property. This is what I concluded based on my reading of ample briefs that were part of the developers' latest lawsuit against the City. The evidence of foulplay would have been confirmed if the developer exercised his right to modify the lawsuit and proceed with a jury trial. If he had followed that process, he would have deposed the City Attorney, and it would have been all she wrote.

We need to see the chronology of the lawsuits to see how that would have transpired: I think it was July 1998 when the Federal Court ruled on the developer's lawsuit against the City. The decision would weaken the city's hand because the judge ruled that the city had provided assurances to the developer, therefore it ruled in favor of the developer based on estoppel. Therefore, the developer had his vested right to develop the two properties along the golfcourse in what they called, developable property.

If the developer had followed the next legal option to him, and modified his lawsuit and obtain his jury trial, he would have had the opportunity to also prove another claim he made in his lawsuit. Business Interference. Maybe even conspiracy, but I haven't read the lawsuit in several years, so I am not sure about that last part. But Business Interference I do remember because I can see how that would have related to the development of the final phase of our development.

To prove business interference, and possibly conspiracy, all the developer would have to do was depose the City Attorney, because in October 1998, four months after the judge had made the estoppel ruling, the City Attorney had a strategic talk with the City's trial attorneys. This they did to determine the monetary offer they were going to make to the developer. And in that talk the City Attorney provided details that would have confirmed what we may know today, loosely, as conspiracy.

But, the developer never took that option, because, in December 1998, he settled out of court with the City for two million dollars.

The second moving piece in 1997, (at exactly the same time that the backwater boys and gals were launching their tactical assault to stop those two developments), involved the final phase of our development. The country club developer could prove he had a business relationship with the representative of the private owner of final phase of our development because both the developer and representative showed up in 1995 when the conceptual plans were approved by the Planning and Zoning board. But that property became in jeopardy when the resistance group managed to stall the development of the other two properties. The stall occurred when questions were raised in November 1997 that required a legal opinion. This requirement created a lull, a stall. And it was in this time period that a new, competing developer showed up to develop the final phase of our property.

I went to every "public" City meeting that involved our community and the way things were handled will point to a rush job. I could write chapters on what I saw that smelled, but in short, the development for the new developer was rushed through city hall. Probably the biggest smoking gun of malfeasance was a ground breaking photo taken with two high level City elected officials that took place two and a half months before the first public meeting was held in City Hall.

In addition, we were held back by the member in our community that was part of the resistance group. He asserted and reinforced the idea that our Association was not turned over to us yet, so we believed we had no rights, except for what was negotiated privately.

It was all a lie. Not only was the Association turned over ten years prior, but the legal papers was signed by the guy who was involved with the resistance group.

Like following a plume to a chemical spill, this guy's name kept coming up. One of the few people that befriended me told me that this fellow was the one that made the pitch to buy the Country Clup. I realize this is hearsay, but I can affirm that Resistance Guy told me that "we made an offer for the Country Club, but the offer was rejected." He just never confirmed that he was the one that did the sales pitch, so of that, I cannot be sure.

But I think about it a lot. Can you imagine how much money he would have pulled in as commission? It would probably require a need for a financial consultant. With his political connections, he would also have the power to draw up small sections of the golfcourse, and it makes me wonder when I see people stolid to this day about taking over common grounds or golfcourse property, if someone made promises to them, that were impossible to keep.

All I can say is, back in 1997-1998, some of my neighbors behaved in very strange ways with reference to that new developer. They bent over backwards to facilitate construction and were also very nasty about keeping the rest of us at bay. Even to the point of making rules to keep the rest of us from talking to him. It was an eerie time. Think about it. We had a group of neighbors that worked together to try to get our common grounds deeded over to them, which should sound strange, unprecedented and unheard of, but they acted like it was no big deal and they were hostile to the rest of us who wanted to slow down the process long enough to understand what was going on.

In sum, I believe when the federal court allowed the city and developer to settle the lawsuit that it also stopped the rest of us from discovering just how much our neighbors worked together to compromise our community. And, without a clear line drawn, a lot of what we see today when it comes to encroachments, started back in that time. That's what I sincerely believe.

Bayard

(22,048 posts)
4. These weren't ranchers by any means
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:11 PM
Jan 2019

They had a few sick cows that they turned loose to roam the neighborhood. When they roamed onto my farm, they infected my pet Brahma steer that we had to put down then. This is a horrific story that stretched over several years.

I am firmly convinced that there are truly evil people in the world. They scream the loudest, they push to the forefront, they lie, cheat, steal--anything to get their way. Witness the current occupant of the White House.

Baitball Blogger

(46,698 posts)
8. Yes, you are correct.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:50 PM
Jan 2019

We have some truly evil people in the world. And here we are realizing that our tax dollars do not provide any kind of protection against them.

Hang in there.

Latest Discussions»The DU Lounge»The lies that neighbors t...