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damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:34 PM Sep 2012

President Of A Company Grabbed My Wife

My wife was at the gym this evening and it happens to be her birthday so at the end of a class this guy who is a president of a realty company goes by her, grabs her shoulders and kissed her with a glancing kiss as she turned away and said "happy birthday." She was stunned as he was going directly to her mouth. Is this assault? I could really use some help on my options here other than beating the guy's ass which I would so love to do. This is beyond my scope of understanding so any help would be appreciated.

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President Of A Company Grabbed My Wife (Original Post) damnedifIknow Sep 2012 OP
Do what feels right. Systematic Chaos Sep 2012 #1
I know what would feel right damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #3
3 questions undeterred Sep 2012 #2
You bet she's upset damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #6
Awkward but I don't feel like it's assault bigwillq Sep 2012 #4
I'm not a troll if that's what you're getting at. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #8
Didn't say you were bigwillq Sep 2012 #14
If it's unwelcome, it's assault. Period. lastlib Sep 2012 #40
Then lots and lots of assaults go on at the gay bar. bigwillq Sep 2012 #44
I'd have to take someone's word for it...... lastlib Sep 2012 #55
Wow. Really? bigwillq Sep 2012 #59
So this guy's life should be ruined forever because he tried to give a birthday kiss? blueamy66 Sep 2012 #76
How does your wife feel about it? CaliforniaPeggy Sep 2012 #5
No it's not assault. RiffRandell Sep 2012 #7
So anyone can just go up to anyone damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #9
I'm no shrink, but if she is so traumatized RiffRandell Sep 2012 #10
No, I can tell damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #11
No, they can't... pipi_k Sep 2012 #32
Yes it is assault. DELIBERATE unwelcome contact is assault. /nt TheMadMonk Sep 2012 #12
Dude, assault is not contact, but contact might be battery... yawnmaster Sep 2012 #57
No its 'battery,' and same if you beat the guy's ass. elleng Sep 2012 #17
That would be battery. lastlib Sep 2012 #41
At Common Law, assault is elleng Sep 2012 #13
Yes he touched her. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #22
Not official legal advice. elleng Sep 2012 #24
I'd suggest initially giving him the benefit of the doubt. Your wife might go to him and say nolabear Sep 2012 #15
Yes sorry to post this. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #23
Get rid of the phrase "that kiss made me uncomfortable"....change it to read, mrmpa Sep 2012 #46
But that's totally different. That assumes he was intentionally offensive. That's for Step 2. nolabear Sep 2012 #51
To me it doesn't matter what the intent was.........it was wrong & he. mrmpa Sep 2012 #67
she should have just knee'd him in the nuts.. HipChick Sep 2012 #16
hee Kali Sep 2012 #66
How did he know it emilyg Sep 2012 #18
First of all thanks all for the advice damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #20
they weren't giving you advice CreekDog Sep 2012 #25
That was a generic "thanks" from the op emilyg Sep 2012 #35
No, your screen name is similar to the person who actually gave advice CreekDog Sep 2012 #37
Gee - you think this is emilyg Sep 2012 #38
Some quiete words with this guy - telling him emilyg Sep 2012 #39
Follow up with the gym to see what they do. mykpart Sep 2012 #19
I've calmed down enough damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #21
It sounds like the guy, at minimum, owes avebury Sep 2012 #26
I will post the outcome. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #30
Oh, good idea. Baitball Blogger Sep 2012 #29
I would have a heart to heart talk with this man .... face to face. dawg Sep 2012 #27
I plan on it. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #31
I think people should pipi_k Sep 2012 #33
Give him a kiss yourself in return Major Nikon Sep 2012 #34
Over the top. Baitball Blogger Sep 2012 #28
I suspect this is a European/Canadian practice that is working its way in from the coasts. hedgehog Sep 2012 #36
So I decked him. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #42
Disappointing that the guy is still allowed in the gym. mykpart Sep 2012 #47
I bet anything you're right about that, raccoon Sep 2012 #54
Is the guy married? Teamster Jeff Sep 2012 #43
He is married yes. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #45
Did your wife handle it OK? lunatica Sep 2012 #48
It's the point. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #49
I think gyms pipi_k Sep 2012 #50
Especially damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #52
seriously - how does it matter how she dresses? nadine_mn Sep 2012 #58
It doesn't matter how she dresses. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #61
I would have shoved him ismnotwasm Sep 2012 #53
My wife was too stunned damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #56
With all DU respect Special Prosciuto Sep 2012 #60
I already explained damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #63
Why is it "president of a company" rather than "a guy at the gym"? pa28 Sep 2012 #62
Nothing missing at all. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #64
In a nutshell. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #65
Battery Corgigal Sep 2012 #68
Okay thanks damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #70
great Corgigal Sep 2012 #71
I'm willing to bet it will be a non-apology TrogL Sep 2012 #72
I agree. damnedifIknow Sep 2012 #74
if this goes legal, you may want admin to take down this thread TrogL Sep 2012 #75
This bizarre behavior may be a "testing" for more to come. I think you are right to take appropriate mother earth Sep 2012 #69
As a martial artist, that would have set off my defenses sakabatou Sep 2012 #73

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
3. I know what would feel right
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:45 PM
Sep 2012

But I'd rather do it the right way. I'm a tad pissed off right now because this guy had every intention of kissing her on the lips and damn near did landing right next to her mouth on her cheek.

undeterred

(34,658 posts)
2. 3 questions
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:44 PM
Sep 2012

How did he know it was her birthday? Do they know each other?

What difference does it make that he is a president of a realty company? In this situation he was just another person in her gym class.

How did she interpret what happened? What is a "glancing" kiss? Was she upset by it?

Context is everything.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
6. You bet she's upset
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:47 PM
Sep 2012

She called the gym and the class instructor and told them what happened. They are supposed to call this guy tomorrow.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
4. Awkward but I don't feel like it's assault
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:45 PM
Sep 2012

Guy shouldn't have done it, very comfortable, but, imo, not assault.

This thread is really odd

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
8. I'm not a troll if that's what you're getting at.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:49 PM
Sep 2012

This actually happened. I've been reading DU since it began.

lastlib

(22,981 posts)
40. If it's unwelcome, it's assault. Period.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:28 PM
Sep 2012

She obviously didn't want kissed on the lips--she turned her head away. That means "NO". It's assault. Period.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
44. Then lots and lots of assaults go on at the gay bar.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:47 PM
Sep 2012

I always turn my head. But I don't consider it to be an assault.

lastlib

(22,981 posts)
55. I'd have to take someone's word for it......
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 02:24 PM
Sep 2012

...I stay out of those places--too many weirdos and perverts.

Legally, if it's unwelcome, it's assault.

 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
76. So this guy's life should be ruined forever because he tried to give a birthday kiss?
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:06 PM
Sep 2012

do NOT agree

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
7. No it's not assault.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:49 PM
Sep 2012

It was inappropriate. If you beat the guy's ass, then that would be assault, and most likely land you in jail.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
10. I'm no shrink, but if she is so traumatized
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:00 PM
Sep 2012

and apparently you are, why don't you press charges, then seek some therapy?

I've had guys that made advances at me and totally shut them down. However, I have seen The Accused and don't make light of rape or sexual harassment. Peace.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
32. No, they can't...
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:23 AM
Sep 2012

It probably isn't assault, but according to this


http://www.superpages.com/supertips/assault-and-battery.html


any unwanted touching can be "battery".


I'm not a "touchy-feely" type of person...I keep my hands to myself. I don't like it when others touch me. Especially not strangers or someone I don't know well.

If someone did that to me, I would feel violated. If your wife is upset, then I would say a letter to the offender is in order.




yawnmaster

(2,812 posts)
57. Dude, assault is not contact, but contact might be battery...
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 03:58 PM
Sep 2012

Any assault would be prior to the kiss itself.
If was a surprise and unexpected I would suspect there is no assault.
Sexual battery, perhaps, but it may be hard to go anywhere with it.

elleng

(130,156 posts)
13. At Common Law, assault is
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:59 PM
Sep 2012

an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence is the or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery.

So NO, if he actually touched her, she was not assaulted, she was 'battered.'

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
22. Yes he touched her.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:45 AM
Sep 2012

He leaned in as she leaned away and kissed her next to her mouth. Oh and then said "Happy Birthday" and then something else she couldn't quite make out. I know my wife and if she had been expecting this that guy would have been in a world of trouble but she was just shocked and couldn't believe that happened. He also quickly left the room so she didn't have a whole lot of time to digest the situation to react.

elleng

(130,156 posts)
24. Not official legal advice.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:04 AM
Sep 2012

This does technically appear to have been assault and battery, but as apparently no harm, physical or otherwise, was intended, I suspect that no prosecution would be likely.

IF she is seriously emotionally effected, please care for her, medically if necessary. If expense results, counsel might approach the man for compensation.

Sorry.

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
15. I'd suggest initially giving him the benefit of the doubt. Your wife might go to him and say
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 12:20 AM
Sep 2012

"I wanted to let you know that kiss made me uncomfortable. Please don't do that kind of thing again." And then let it go. Who knows; he might have done it for any number of reasons. Some people are just absurdly inappropriate and it doesn't mean what it would if someone else did it. Some are jerks but easily backed off.

If he does anything like that again or demeans her complaint in any way you are certainly fair to step in and tell him in no uncertain terms that you are going to complain to the gym and tell them it's their responsibility to insure the safety of their patrons and you want them to talk to him, and assure them that you'll discuss this with their other customers. And DO it. If they won't do that then go somewhere else.

Honestly, beating him up won't get him in trouble. It'll get you in trouble. And I know you're mad and she's mad. But don't go all out at the very beginning, unless your wife is frightened of him.

That's my two cents. Good luck.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
23. Yes sorry to post this.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:52 AM
Sep 2012

I just had to vent and there are much worse things in life than what happened to her but it still wasn't right.

mrmpa

(4,033 posts)
46. Get rid of the phrase "that kiss made me uncomfortable"....change it to read,
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:25 PM
Sep 2012

That kiss you gave me the other day really pissed me off. Do not ever do that to me again, and I would also like you not to try that on any other woman. You were wrong, you are crude and you are an unadulterated a..hole. Also accept these words from me, my husband is 3 times angrier than me.

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
51. But that's totally different. That assumes he was intentionally offensive. That's for Step 2.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sep 2012

Unless there was a genuinely creepy air and he's done other things that lend the "he did it on purpose and it's assault" idea creedence, or unless there's real reason to think there will be a frightening escalation, assuming he's an asshole is premature imo. If he doesn't respond well to being asked to stop then that's another matter entirely.

mrmpa

(4,033 posts)
67. To me it doesn't matter what the intent was.........it was wrong & he.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:14 PM
Sep 2012

needs to know that.

I remember working for a guy 30 years ago, he was my manager. I was 10 minutes late for work (traffic), and he said to me, "too much fun in bed with your boyfriend?"

I slowly walked up to him, cornering against the wall , I told him never to say that to me again. His answer "I was just joking." I said, okay when my 4 brothers get here, they're all over 6'4" tall (he was 5' 8&quot they'll just be joking when they toss you in the river." I then smiled as I watched him cringe and I said "just joking."

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
20. First of all thanks all for the advice
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:15 AM
Sep 2012

Now they knew it was her birthday due to the instructor is a friend of my wife's on Facebook. She announced it in class as she does everyone. I could let this go much easier if it wasn't for the fact this is one of those obnoxious type of guys that always wants to be the center of attention according to my wife. Loud and crude.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
37. No, your screen name is similar to the person who actually gave advice
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:43 PM
Sep 2012

you did not.

that's my take.

mykpart

(3,879 posts)
19. Follow up with the gym to see what they do.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:02 AM
Sep 2012

If possible, you should accompany your wife to the gym next time she goes. Calmly let the man know that his actions were inappropriate and that you expect his assurance that nothing like that will ever happen again. And document everything, just in case.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
21. I've calmed down enough
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:25 AM
Sep 2012

To think more clearly now so I will take your advice and try to reconcile this in a peaceful manner. Sorry to come across as harsh earlier I was just upset.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
30. I will post the outcome.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:24 AM
Sep 2012

We'll be speaking with gym management and hopefully the perp this evening so we will see what happens.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
29. Oh, good idea.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:22 AM
Sep 2012

A gym is an interesting environment. That creep could have been watching the wife for a while and was just looking for an opportunity to cross that line. This calls for some serious cock blocking.

dawg

(10,610 posts)
27. I would have a heart to heart talk with this man .... face to face.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:20 AM
Sep 2012

I would not literally threaten him, but he would get the message.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
31. I plan on it.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:48 AM
Sep 2012

We have a meeting this evening and I will keep my cool but from what I've heard about him this just may prove to be a difficult task. This happened after a spin class as my wife was wiping down her bike. He just approached her, grabbed her by her shoulders, kissed her. Freaky? Hell yes it's freaky and that's why my wife was completely stunned. The thing is this guy had no business touching my wife at all. At all.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
33. I think people should
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:53 AM
Sep 2012

keep their hands to themselves under all circumstances unless they know for a fact that the touching will be welcome.

Another situation that really sort of pisses me off is when people think they have a right to touch, rub, or otherwise make contact with a pregnant woman's tummy. Without permission, I mean.

I never touch unless invited to.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
34. Give him a kiss yourself in return
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:00 AM
Sep 2012

And tell him "Merry Christmas".

That should fuck with his mind a bit.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
36. I suspect this is a European/Canadian practice that is working its way in from the coasts.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 01:38 PM
Sep 2012

Casual acquaintances kissing each other upon greeting.

Although, it should be a peck on the cheek.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
42. So I decked him.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:34 PM
Sep 2012

No, he left before we got there. Anyway we talked with the gym manager and he told us this guy is not allowed in any classes that my wife attends. He assured us it would not happen again and told us the guy said when asked why he did it "I don't know, I had a brain fart." So we are thinking this has happened before to other women but this time he was called on it. Maybe he will now think twice before trying to pull this again with someone else. He had the balls to do this to my wife but didn't have the balls to face me.

mykpart

(3,879 posts)
47. Disappointing that the guy is still allowed in the gym.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:57 AM
Sep 2012

What's to keep him from confronting your wife on the way to showers or in common areas? I think you should get her a stun gun.

raccoon

(31,092 posts)
54. I bet anything you're right about that,
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 01:20 PM
Sep 2012
So we are thinking this has happened before to other women but this time he was called on it.

Teamster Jeff

(1,598 posts)
43. Is the guy married?
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:42 PM
Sep 2012

Call his wife and let her know that her husband harassed your wife. Let her take it from there.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
48. Did your wife handle it OK?
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:59 AM
Sep 2012

If she did, which it seems she did, then why do you need to do anything? Perhaps if he does it a second time you should do something then.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
49. It's the point.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:44 AM
Sep 2012

You just can't go around grabbing and assaulting women. What kind of person does that? There is no way in hell I would walk up to a strange woman and do what he did. My wife has never spoken to the man at all and out of the blue he does this? Something's off with the guy. By the way, the gym manager stated there is no rule against this type of thing and he is entitled to keep his membership. This happened at a Gold's Gym.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
50. I think gyms
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 12:00 PM
Sep 2012

and some other places...

should have facilities that are for women only.

With separate entrance/exit doors and security cameras.

Just as an option for women who may not want to have to deal with male harassment.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
52. Especially
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 12:31 PM
Sep 2012

since my wife doesn't dress in a manner that some do in the gym. She had on just a plain shirt and I call them jogging pants since I'm not really versed in gym attire. This whole thing from the gym not revoking his membership to the actual act is just so strange.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
58. seriously - how does it matter how she dresses?
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:22 PM
Sep 2012

The only thing I find inappropriate at the Y (where I go) is formal wear or thongs (either end of the spectrum). Our gym has a wide variety of attire - from muslim women covered head to toe, people coming off of work or on lunch break in dress clothes, jogging bras and shorts, tanks and shorts etc. The gym gets hot (esp for those doing hot yoga - which is crazy to me) and tight fitting clothing can be the most comfortable.

I know you don't mean to be offensive - but that phrase "doesn't dress in a manner that some do" almost makes it sound like if she was dressed differently it would be ok for a stranger to kiss her.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
61. It doesn't matter how she dresses.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:15 PM
Sep 2012

I agree but I just wanted to make it clear my wife had nothing to do with what happened. I do agree that no matter what a woman wears it's not a green light for abuse.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
53. I would have shoved him
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 01:18 PM
Sep 2012

My husband would have confonted him. That's a creepy ass motherfucker, NOT worth going to jail over at this point.

Watch for signs of stalking; call the police immediately if you or your wife are concerned

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50316



damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
56. My wife was too stunned
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 03:21 PM
Sep 2012

At that time to fully realize what just happened. Another strange twist is right after this happened my wife heard the spin class instructor say " he really didn't just do that." Okay now when my wife called the instructor from home to talk to her about this the instructor says she didn't see it. Now either the instructor was talking about some other event in the class at the time or she's not telling the truth.

 

Special Prosciuto

(731 posts)
60. With all DU respect
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:13 PM
Sep 2012

How did the guy know it was her birthday and how did she know he was a realty president?

Sounds strikingly like she knows more about collusion than you can imagine.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
63. I already explained
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:54 PM
Sep 2012

in an earlier post how he knew it was her birthday and the knowledge of the realty president well that info came from his Facebook page. We got his name from the instructor. He also has a picture of himself posted and yes he just looks the part of a deviant.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
62. Why is it "president of a company" rather than "a guy at the gym"?
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:19 PM
Sep 2012

I feel like a piece of the story is missing.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
65. In a nutshell.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:14 PM
Sep 2012

My wife is one who does not like drawing attention to herself. In these classes she stays in the back of the room and minds her own business. This guy walked up to her as she was wiping down her spin bike, grabbed her shoulders hard, pulled her into him, kissed her. She has never spoken to him and that's that. That's the whole story.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
70. Okay thanks
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
Sep 2012

I'll do that. This guy wrote an apology letter and dropped it off at the gym. Now we haven't seen this letter yet as my wife hasn't returned to the gym but is planning on doing so tonight. Now the question is should we let this go with this apology letter or take it further to really teach this guy a lesson? According to the definition this is clearly battery. We've been married for 31 years and this is the first time we had to deal with anything like this. It's just a little tough knowing another man put his hands on your wife after being married so long.

TrogL

(32,818 posts)
72. I'm willing to bet it will be a non-apology
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 01:46 PM
Sep 2012

...along the lines of "I'm sorry you were offended by my inoffensive behaviour".

Have you talked to your lawyer?

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
74. I agree.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 02:08 PM
Sep 2012

I think it will be something like I'm sorry but I didn't mean to offend you. Well when a guy robs a bank he can't say afterwards oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to do it. That just won't fly. Now the attorney might be our next move.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)
69. This bizarre behavior may be a "testing" for more to come. I think you are right to take appropriate
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:47 PM
Sep 2012

action like you did, but make sure to follow-up.

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