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UTUSN

(70,684 posts)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:35 PM Jun 2014

Triple/CA Chrome? I'm nothing of a sports fan, but certain hype pierces the filter down to

my level. I don't watch any sports, but every four years keep up with the World Cup.

It's a news event, gotta know about it, hope none of the horses get hurt. CA Chrome is the starpower or hype creation, I need to know.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Triple/CA Chrome? I'm nothing of a sports fan, but certain hype pierces the filter down to (Original Post) UTUSN Jun 2014 OP
i'd rather watch this race Enrique Jun 2014 #1
Well, old pal, you certainly outdid me!1 n/t UTUSN Jun 2014 #2
Gosh, sports statistics get taken to interstellar lengths: COSTAS (great human) just said UTUSN Jun 2014 #3
Whew!1 It's over, finishes 5th n/t UTUSN Jun 2014 #4
Whoa, the owner showing maybe sour grapes or amateur status or just disappointment UTUSN Jun 2014 #5
Major tearful apology to the world this morning... Phentex Jun 2014 #6
Yip, but it was REAL all around. UTUSN Jun 2014 #11
The reason it is so hard is that the races are different dr.strangelove Jun 2014 #7
Coburn has a point. They should bring back the bonus to horses who ran in all three races. bklyncowgirl Jun 2014 #8
+1 hamsterjill Jun 2014 #10
Really want to see the Triple Crown. bigwillq Jun 2014 #9

UTUSN

(70,684 posts)
3. Gosh, sports statistics get taken to interstellar lengths: COSTAS (great human) just said
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:57 PM
Jun 2014

that the three most recent Triple winners, all in the '70s, happened in years when East and West coasts championships were happening, and that that is happening now with the Stanley Cup (whatever that is). I know, I know, ice is ice and hockey is hockey, whatever that is.

UTUSN

(70,684 posts)
5. Whoa, the owner showing maybe sour grapes or amateur status or just disappointment
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 01:14 PM
Jun 2014

He's an outsider to the bluebloods, blows his cool.

From my outsider (to sports) perch: On the one hand his complaint that the "Triple" ought to mean that the contenders ran in all three sounds reasonable, grounds that latecomers are more rested or fresh. My outside/otoh view, well that would mean that his horse would face only all the horses he has already beat.

More of my outside, who said these three races need to be related?!1 Each thing is its own thing.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
6. Major tearful apology to the world this morning...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:46 AM
Jun 2014

he apologized to the winner, his jockey, his wife, all of horse racing AND THE WORLD. He said the whole world. Cause ya know the WHOLE world was watching this.

UTUSN

(70,684 posts)
11. Yip, but it was REAL all around.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:47 PM
Jun 2014

He's a prole, his horse is a prole, and all us proles are disappointed at the "LOSS" -- hey, wait, didn't that prole horse WIN two effing races?!1

I didn't like Kathy Lee sniffing down her nose with, "Well, he's NEW to this..."

Look, the horse and the owner are great. Period.

dr.strangelove

(4,851 posts)
7. The reason it is so hard is that the races are different
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:52 AM
Jun 2014

To me, it is silly to suggest that the same horses must run all three. These are really three different races, and horse owners run their horses where they can win. An owner may know his horse can not win the Derby and Preakness, which are shorter tracks and favor horses with speed and less stamina. But that owner may know his horse can win in the longest rach in US racing at Belmont.

The Derby is american horseracing's showcase. Its a short track, but its the best possible location. The track is increible. It drains well and is made from the best mix of clay and dirt. It produces fast times for sprinters and is a fun race to watch.

The preakness is slightly shorter, favoring spritners, but is a quick turnaround time for sprinters, two weeks after the Derby. Its tough for a sprinter to win two weeks after winning, so the great sprinters rise up. A lot of triple crowns are foiled here by having another fast track two weeks after the Derby. The track tends to be dirtier than the Derby, a lot more mud here. Its like Baltimore itself, a town with a lot of history, but proud of its grit and fight.

Then there is the three week wait for the longest horsetrack in US racing. The Belmont. TO win all three means being not only just a sprinter, but a sprinter who can also beat the endurance horses that love NY's Belmont track. The track is very different. Its huge. None of the horses in the Belmont field have ever raced at this distance. Horses are used to finishing when they are just entering the stretch at Belmont. Its very rare for a horse to be able to master this and have the raw power to win the previous two. Plus the track is so different. Its a lot sandier than most tracks, hence the park's nickname, the Big Sandy. I think the sand had more of an impact on California Chrome than the distance. He kept in it, but he just could not get the bang out of the track that he did out of the two dry dirt tracks.

It should be very hard. these horses are huge investments. Owners run them where they stand the best chance to win. If a horse wants to join the elite TC winners, they shoudl face the best at each track, over 5 weeks and win it all.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
8. Coburn has a point. They should bring back the bonus to horses who ran in all three races.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:54 AM
Jun 2014

The turn around time between races is hard enough--something which Tonalist's owner complained about, but there's another issue here.

Since the late 1970s all three jurisdictions allowed trainers to use the drug Lasix. Lasix has a legitimate therapeutic use to prevent bleeding in the horse's respiratory tract but since it also eliminates water weight it makes horses run faster. Because of that nearly all horses in the U.S. run on Lasix whether they "need" it or not. We are the only country by the way which allows it by the way.

The downside of Lasix is that the drug dehydrates a horse mandating longer rest periods between races. Elite horses in the U.S. generally run every 4-5 weeks. Back in the old days they ran every 2-3 weeks--even shorter.

Because of that horses which finish up the track in the Kentucky Derby tend to skip the Preakness and go in the Belmont. Only three horses ran in all three legs of the Crown. California Chrome who finished a close fourth despite shearing off a piece of his heel when another horse stepped on his foot stepping out of the gate, General A Rod who finished 7th and Ride On Curlin who suffered respiratory distress and was eased.
Steve Coburn, the owner, did not know his horse had a legitimate excuse when he shot off his mouth on national television. He did know it yesterday when he doubled down on his complaint that the horse who won, Tonalist, had taken the easy way to the Belmont. He has a point. Tonalist was not eligible for the Kentucky Derby could have run in the Preakness but his connections decided, correctly from their standpoint that their big colt would not do well against the fast and agile California Chrome at Pimlico. They opted for an easier race for their lightly raced colt in the Peter Pan and then pointed for the Belmont. This has been an increasing tendency in recent years leading to larger fields in the Belmont. Larger fields mean more chances for trouble. The horse who stepped on Chrome had never won a major stakes race and was in there either because the owner wanted him there on a big day or because his trainer, Todd Pletcher, wanted him in to run interference for his other horse, Commissioner who came in second.

Funny thing is that if Chrome hadn't had that accident coming out of the gate and if his jockey feeling something wasn't right hadn't swung wide on the far turn, he might well have prevailed against the fresh horses who beat him.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
10. +1
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:36 PM
Jun 2014

I was happy to see the jokey take Ride on Curlin to the side. Better safe, etc.

Rosario, the jockey who won on Tonalist, had ridden Ride on Curlin in the Preakness. He opted to ride Tonalist, instead, in the Belmont.

And I see Coburn's point.

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