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Joe Shlabotnik

(5,604 posts)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 03:39 PM Jun 2014

David Graeber explains why the more your job helps others, the less you get paid

Snip...

Well, we can talk about the decline of the union movement, but it runs deeper. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, one of the great divisions between anarcho-syndicalist unions, and socialist unions, was that the latter were always asking for higher wages, and the anarchists were asking for less hours. That’s why the anarchists were so entangled in struggles for the eight-hour day. It’s as if the socialists were essentially buying into the notion that work is a virtue, and consumerism is good, but it should all be managed democratically, while the anarchists were saying, no, the whole deal—that we work more and more for more and more stuff—is rotten from the get-go.

I’ve said this before, but I think one of the greatest ironies of history is how this all panned out when workers’ movements did manage to seize power. It was generally the classic anarchist constituencies—recently proletarianized peasants and craftsmen—who rose up and made the great revolutions, whether in Russia or China or for that matter Algeria or Spain—but they always ended up with regimes run by socialists who accepted that labor was a virtue in itself and the purpose of labor was to create a consumer utopia. Of course they were completely incapable of providing such a consumer utopia. But what social benefit did they actually provide? Well, the biggest one, the one no one talks about, was guaranteed employment and job security—the “iron rice bowl”, they called it in China, but it went by many names. You couldn’t really get fired from your job. As a result you didn’t really have to work very hard. So on paper they had eight- or nine-hour days but really everyone was working maybe four or five.

I have a lot of friends who grew up in the USSR, or Yugoslavia, who describe what it was like. You get up. You buy the paper. You go to work. You read the paper. Then maybe a little work, and a long lunch, including a visit to the public bath… If you think about it in that light, it makes the achievements of the socialist bloc seem pretty impressive: a country like Russia managed to go from a backwater to a major world power with everyone working maybe on average four or five hours a day. But the problem is they couldn’t take credit for it. They had to pretend it was a problem, “the problem of absenteeism,” or whatever, because of course work was considered the ultimate moral virtue. They couldn’t take credit for the great social benefit they actually provided. Which is, incidentally, the reason that workers in socialist countries had no idea what they were getting into when they accepted the idea of introducing capitalist-style work discipline. “What, we have to ask permission to go to the bathroom?” It seemed just as totalitarian to them as accepting a Soviet-style police state would have been to us.

That ambivalence in the heart of the worker’s movement remains. Growing up in a lefty, working class family, I felt it all the time. On the one hand, there’s this ideological imperative to validate work as virtue in itself. Which is constantly being reinforced by the larger society. On the other hand, there’s the reality that most work is obviously stupid, degrading, unnecessary, and the feeling that it is best avoided whenever possible. But it makes it very difficult to organize, as workers, against work.
From: http://www.salon.com/2014/06/01/help_us_thomas_piketty_the_1s_sick_and_twisted_new_scheme/

As usual, a thoughtful and entertaining interview with Graeber.
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David Graeber explains why the more your job helps others, the less you get paid (Original Post) Joe Shlabotnik Jun 2014 OP
I forget which Soviet Bloc wordsmith said after communism fell, Doctor_J Jun 2014 #1
there is a lot of merit to this argument Demeter Jun 2014 #2
I know something is wrong. postulater Jun 2014 #3
As far as I know, no big box stores sell Made in USA products (or very few) BrotherIvan Jun 2014 #5
So, so true. I work in a rehab and long-term care center. Laffy Kat Jun 2014 #4
The "Work Ethic" yallerdawg Jun 2014 #6
K&R. Overseas Jun 2014 #7
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
1. I forget which Soviet Bloc wordsmith said after communism fell,
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 04:09 PM
Jun 2014

"everything they told us about communism was false; everything they told us about capitalism was true".

We are now as productive as we've ever been as a society. Yet we have enormous unemployment, underemployment, and working poor. This is obviously a paradox. As my one right-wing uncle says, "How can unemployment ever drop below 4%? That would mean that even retarded people have jobs".

The answer to this is really, really simple of course, in principle. You take the profitization model off of the essentials including education, health care, and pensions. Then institute living wage laws together with job sharing and replace the 40-hr work week with a 30-hr work week. This arrangement would still allow the fat cats to get rich.

But, as Graeber says, even those who would benefit the most from such a system would shy away from fighting for it.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
2. there is a lot of merit to this argument
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 04:10 PM
Jun 2014

what is the point of working to the point of exhaustion, if not death? You don't get to enjoy it, your family sure doesn't, the duties of a citizen regarding community and politics are unfulfilled.

The only one who benefits from such an arrangement is the business owner and his banker.


However, I cannot begin to imagine how the US could break the wage slavery, because our government is bought and paid for by the owners and their bankers. Mostly, the bankers, actually. Only a lucky few owners own more than massive debt.

postulater

(5,075 posts)
3. I know something is wrong.
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 04:27 PM
Jun 2014

I just got back from Kohl's. I bought four polo shirts made in Indonesia, Vietnam, and Guatemala. And two pair of Levis, same size and model, one made in Egypt, one made in Lesotho. I couldn't find any made in the US. Spent less than $100.

I'm happy to have affordable clothes but something is just wrong with this.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
5. As far as I know, no big box stores sell Made in USA products (or very few)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:59 AM
Jun 2014

Their business model is to sell the highest margins on cheap goods, so paying USA wages is impossible. There are many small companies that are Made in the USA, but often you can only buy them on the internet. Their markups are not so high so they can't afford to sell wholesale. One company that's popular with men is Betabrand where most of their stuff is made in San Francisco. There are many others. Most textiles are no longer milled in the US, so they can't say Made in the USA, but you can look for things manufactured here.

Also, check Etsy as there are many great craftspeople and designers who are direct selling on there. Amazing stuff and you can customize it if you like. You just have to look for quality and you will find it.

Laffy Kat

(16,376 posts)
4. So, so true. I work in a rehab and long-term care center.
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 06:19 PM
Jun 2014

I see how hard the nurses (mostly LPNs) and CNAs work and they get paid horribly. Not only do they work hard they are passionately devoted to their patients, in some sense they love them. And on top of hard work and lousy pay, management is constantly asking the staff to do more, faster, with less. I wish everyone could see what I do.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
6. The "Work Ethic"
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

What a bill of goods we have been sold all of our lives.

One of the great paradoxes of capitalism is when a society produces the most goods and creates the most wealth, inevitably people still live in poverty and hunger. Their worth is determined by their functioning as just another piece of machinery. If you don't produce, you have no value and are discarded.

As we separate into the final 2 distinct classes, the haves and the have not's, the bosses and the workers -- yes, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat! -- then we will move collectively into the end of capitalism as the people take back their humanity.

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