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hatrack

(59,574 posts)
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 08:43 AM Aug 2016

Exxon Spent $19 Million On Olympic TV Ads To Show How Much They Care, Also TECHNOLOGY!

Exxon Mobil Corp is running television advertisements at the Rio Olympics to showcase its work on clean energy, a high-profile blitz as the company faces pressure over global warming in an intense year of climate politics. The suite of four ads tout oil major Exxon's work to capture carbon dioxide from power plants, turn algae into biofuel and develop fuel-efficient cars. Together, they offer a glimpse into the future of a lower carbon world.

Though oil companies typically advertise at big sporting events, the ads are being run as Exxon faces growing pressure on multiple fronts - from shareholders, green groups and state attorney generals - to respond to global warming.

Many other fossil fuel companies also face pressure from shareholders, specifically over whether the value of their oil and gas assets would be slashed as governments clamp down on carbon emissions.

From the opening ceremony of the Games on Aug. 5 to Aug. 17, Exxon spent $19.3 million to air ads 233 times in the U.S. market, reaching about 335 million TV screens, according to iSpot.tv, which tracks ad viewership in real time using advanced analytics. While small in relative terms for a global company, the TV spending is the most by an oil company during the Rio Olympics and the eighth out of corporates overall. Berkshire Hathaway's Geico was the largest at $33.5 million.

EDIT

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-rio-exxonmobil-idUSKCN10U23Z

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Exxon Spent $19 Million On Olympic TV Ads To Show How Much They Care, Also TECHNOLOGY! (Original Post) hatrack Aug 2016 OP
Yes Exxon cares about buying patents on renewable energy MattP Aug 2016 #1
That's bullshit. They love wind and solar. hunter Aug 2016 #2
As usual, your reasoning skills are lacking kristopher Aug 2016 #3
Nothing scares Exxon more than the electric car cprise Aug 2016 #4
Afraid of the electric car, yes, possibly. It would mess up their current distribution model. hunter Aug 2016 #5
You are still not paying attention. kristopher Aug 2016 #6
The problem must be pushed against on all sides cprise Aug 2016 #7
"You argue for constraint of consumption" kristopher Aug 2016 #8
Which countries? hunter Aug 2016 #9
These cprise Aug 2016 #10

hunter

(38,302 posts)
2. That's bullshit. They love wind and solar.
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 02:41 PM
Aug 2016

It's a guaranteed market for fossil fuels whenever the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining.

We affluent people can feel good twice, cutting our fossil fuel use and showing off our solar and wind bling!

You, yourself, can quit fossil fuels any time you like, well, except for maybe what's used to grow your food. Unless you grow all your own food with all your own fertilizer.

So have you quit fossil fuels?

Why not?

I'm a hypocrite and I'll bet you are a hypocrite too.

But I score! It's Monday, it's sunny, my solar neighbors are mostly at work, so my little chromebook and router are solar powered!



I can also brag that my wife and I, by some planning and greater good fortune, abandoned the automobile commuter culture decades ago. When we met, we were both Los Angeles commuters on stop-and-go traffic freeways.


kristopher

(29,798 posts)
3. As usual, your reasoning skills are lacking
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 04:32 PM
Aug 2016
It's a guaranteed market for fossil fuels whenever the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining.


They already have a "guaranteed market".

Also, since we are discussing automobiles when we're talking about Exxon, their market isn't threatened by renewable energy sources being developed. Their market is threatened by electric drive vehicles and public transportation systems.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
4. Nothing scares Exxon more than the electric car
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 06:14 PM
Aug 2016

Trying to obscure that fact with goofy BS is just gross.

So have you quit fossil fuels?

Why not?

I'm a hypocrite and I'll bet you are a hypocrite too.

I see we've fallen off the wagon and arrived at Koch Industries Talking Points 101... 'Enviros are hypocrites because they won't become Amish and only nuclear and fossil fuel can power an industrialized society'. Ha ha!

You know what most hydro storage generators were built for? Oh gee... it was to make nuclear on the grid possible.

Yep, nuclear has an inability to match the curves and spikes of consumer demand. There may even be a day when nuclear lobbyists thank the renewable industries for developing inexpensive storage (that is, if they can ever manage to de-scam-ify their business culture.... unlikely since they want to fit it with the other finance and rentier sectors).

It's Monday, it's sunny, my solar neighbors are mostly at work, so my little chromebook and router are solar powered!

Of course. We'll pretend their workplaces aren't connected to the grid and receiving solar and wind energy.

I can also brag that my wife and I, by some planning and greater good fortune, abandoned the automobile commuter culture decades ago.

Only if you support a carbon tax... or something that can compete with fossil fuels based on price. Otherwise, who gives a damn about your anecdotal bragging rights.

hunter

(38,302 posts)
5. Afraid of the electric car, yes, possibly. It would mess up their current distribution model.
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:40 PM
Aug 2016

But natural gas power plants augmented by solar and wind are a damn fine energy system, cleaner than coal, and economical too. Plenty of giant industrial and energy companies are eagerly pursuing that. Call Siemens, write a big check, and they'll build it however you like, from megawatts to gigawatts. Call one of the energy companies and they'll sell you the gas.

There are several mega-gas projects being built by Exxon, Chevron, and Shell. These are astonishingly HUGE projects, among the largest projects ever attempted by human beings. They will produce plenty of gas for everyone for the rest of the 21st century; gas that will be used to generate electricity, gas that is easily turned into liquid fuels.

An example would be the Gorgon project in Australia. Another example would be the giant floating processing plant Samsung has built for Shell:

The largest vessel the world has ever seen

Climbing onto the largest vessel the world has ever seen brings you into a realm where everything is on a bewilderingly vast scale and ambition knows no bounds.

Prelude is a staggering 488m long and the best way to grasp what this means is by comparison with something more familiar.

Four football pitches placed end-to-end would not quite match this vessel's length - and if you could lay the 301m of the Eiffel Tower alongside it, or the 443m of the Empire State Building, they wouldn't do so either.



--more--

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30394137


Here's the big gas power plant in Humboldt Bay, California, next to the old nuclear plant:



http://www.pge.com/about/environment/pge/minimpact/humboldtbay/

Yep, it's basically a building full of natural gas fueled diesel engines of the sort you might find on a ship. The advantage of this setup is that diesel engines are fairly efficient, and they can nimbly balance out intermittent wind and solar inputs to the electric grid. Larger "combined cycle" plants use a clever arrangement of gas and steam turbines.

Many different manufacturers would be happy to set you up with such a plant, and many big energy companies would be happy to sell you the gas. With a fifty percent duty cycle for wind, and a fifteen to thirty percent duty cycle for solar, some days you'll achieve near 100% renewable, the diesels on standby. It's truly an awesome clean low carbon energy source.

Here's the point of my questions: What happens when most of the world's population is enjoying our standard of living; charging their electric cars, air conditioning their 2500 square foot homes, and so on? I'm sure you'd agree, nobody should be left behind in our glorious expanding economy!

The problem is I can't get the math to work for seven and a half billion people, or worse, a future ten billion people.

"Better than coal" isn't nearly good enough.

If it's any consolation, it's pretty much the same with nuclear power.

A world economy powered entirely by "renewable" energy, or by nuclear energy, would look nothing like the economy we affluent people, we "one-percenters," enjoy today.

The clean energy, non-nuclear, future we dreamed about in the 'seventies is here, with electric cars and everything!

Yet every day the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increases at an accelerating rate.

The next future we dream about has to deal with that reality. We have to discover some fossil fuel free comfortable lifestyles that people will willingly choose, and we'll have to learn to cope with climate change refugees in some manner other than killing them or watching them kill one another.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
6. You are still not paying attention.
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 09:08 PM
Aug 2016

Your scenario for renewables and gas is bunk as "every wind turbine or solar panel that is built is taking a bite out of fossil fuel revenues by steady reducing the amount of fossil fuels burned."

I realize that those immersed in dogmatic thinking have trouble recognizing informed opposition to their ideas, but surely you recall that natural gas emissions are less than coal. The traditional accounting placed it at about 40% of coal, bu, although that number has grown as ongoing research into the well-site management of emissions is being taken into account, it is still overall considerably less than coal.

Please pay attention here, as that reduction is only a side benefit of focusing on natural gas as the "bridge" to a renewable, sustainable ultra-low carbon world:
The Primary Benefit is the flexibility that it brings to the grid as coal and nuclear are fundamentally unable to phase directly into a distributed grid built around variable renewable generation.

It isn't complicated conceptually; in fact, it's really simple. Coal and nuclear need to run flat out as much as they can. And every wind turbine or solar panel that is built is taking a bite out of fossil fuel revenues by steady reducing the amount of fossil fuels burned.

Key point:
1) If it's a fossil fuel (or nuclear) generator that can be operated flexibly, it can adapt economically to decreased market share as a result of increased penetration of variable renewables.
2) If it's a fossil fuel (or nuclear) generator that cannot be operated flexibly, it will not adapt economically to increased penetration of variable renewables. As a consequence, it will either:
a) fight successfully to derail the expansion of variable renewables,
b) go out of business, or
c) prevail on the government to throw good money after bad through some very large subsidies of the most counter productive sort as far as carbon emissions planning goes.




The altered economics that the natural gas "bridge" have created are combining with the economic impact of the rapid expansion of solar and wind (which act directly) to strip out the profitability hidden for large scale inflexible generation (coal and nuclear) in short term power auctions. And when you add in regulatory pressure on other toxic coal emissions the shutdown of COAL is well underway.

I presume that is a goal you approve of?

Let me shout: IT IS WORKING.

Did I mention that the 4 largest US coal companies lost 90% of their market capitalization last year?

I presume that is an outcomel you approve of?

And this renewable drive is happening globally. Which is critical, because the declining cost curve of all the elements of grids based on distributed energy resources (DER) is no longer dependent on the patronage of political factions in a small handful of advanced countries.

http://about.bnef.com/press-releases/clean-energy-defies-fossil-fuel-price-crash-to-attract-record-329bn-global-investment-in-2015/

It is now a system where the DER winners out-power (literally and figuratively) the competition. Let me repeat that, it is now a system where the renewable forces are the winners in competition. Several recent analysis have shown that progress is far outstripping projections with most putting us by 2025 at nearly 15 years ahead of where we thought we'd be only 5 years ago. (Hope that makes sense with all the time references.)

Bloomberg also points out:
1) “New markets” run the show. An expanded list of emerging countries committed billions to clean energy last year with record increases, including Mexico ($4.2bn, up 114%), Chile ($3.5bn, up 157%), South Africa ($4.5bn, up 329%) and Morocco ($2bn, up from almost zero in 2014).

2) Costs keep falling. The 2015 renewables installation record is all the more remarkable as cost-competitiveness improvements in solar and wind power mean that more megawatts can be installed for the same price.

3) Wind and solar’s capacity share rises. The 122GW of wind and solar installed in 2015 made up about 50% of the net capacity added in all generation technologies (fossil fuel, nuclear and renewable) globally.

4) No impact from low fossil fuel prices. Neither the 67% plunge in the oil price in the 18 months, nor continuing low prices for coal globally and natural gas in the US restrained the boom in clean energy investment.

5) Europe falls behind. The region saw investment fall 18% to $58.5bn in 2015, its lowest figure since 2006. While UK investment bucked the trend and grew 24%, Germany and France saw their investment levels fall by 42% and 53% respectively.
http://www.bloomberg.com/company/clean-energy-investment/


And allowe me close with these 2 comments from a recent Goldman Sachs analysis:
This is not the beginning of the end for fossil fuels; but marks the end of the beginning for the low carbon economy. Oil, gas and coal generate two-thirds of electricity, power over 75% of industry and fuel 95% of the global transport fleet. However, they also emit c.32 gigatonnes (Gt) of CO2e per annum, and public pressure to find ways to reduce this is increasing (a theme we have highlighted in past reports, see GS SUSTAIN Change is coming: A framework for climate change May 2009; GS SUSTAIN What is the climate for change? October 2013). Solutions range from switching from coal to less polluting gas, boosting efficiency (e.g. in cars), as well as introducing transformative low- carbon technologies, the focus of this report.

While the policy debates often center on 2030 forecasts and 2050 targets, we expect the greatest market dislocations to occur between 2015 and 2025. We estimate that in 2015-2020, new wind and solar installations will add the oil equivalent of 6.2 mn barrels per day (mbpd) to global energy supply. This is more than the 5.7 mbpd US shale oil production added over 2010-15. Our analysts expect China to add 23 GW coal and 40 GW gas power capacity by 2020, but this compares to 193 GW of wind and solar the country will add at the same time. In lighting, our analysts forecast that LEDs will account for 69% of light bulbs sold and over 60% of the installed global base by 2020. In autos, our analysts expect carmakers to sell c.25 mn hybrid and electric vehicles by 2025 –10x more than today and a $600 bn+ revenue opportunity.
The Low Carbon Economy
GS SUSTAIN equity investor’s guide to a low carbon world, 2015-25
Nov. 30, 2015

cprise

(8,445 posts)
7. The problem must be pushed against on all sides
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 09:42 PM
Aug 2016

in many areas.

You argue for constraint of consumption, and that is great. There is only one energy sector that is doing the same, and it is still common to schedule buildings for efficiency inspections before adding solar, wind or geothermal heatpumps... The ethic that efficiency comes first is still there.

And arguing against high consumption while whining that solar and wind are intermittent sounds like a contradiction to me. Its just irrational. No energy sources carry an inherent message of "make do with less" the way solar and wind do.

It seems to me that what disturbs you most about solar and wind is really the idea that we might get too good at storing energy, and that could feed the continued delusion behind high consumption.


What happens when most of the world's population is enjoying our standard of living; charging their electric cars, air conditioning their 2500 square foot homes, and so on? (...)a future ten billion people.


I don't know... What about attitudes toward contraception? What if reduced expectations results in a "Tiny House" marketing craze aimed at US millennials... as is happening now. What if ALEC succeeds in banning the term "sustainable" from state documents? These are important questions that tie into ecology.

OTOH, I don't think that 2500 sqft homes becoming commonplace in China and India is a realistic fear when even Europeans are increasingly scrunched.

The best way to get people to choose carbon free lifestyles is to first get them to agree to a carbon tax. And the best way to do that is to advance the reach and scale of our most sustainable and least corruption-prone energy sources... Regulation often follows in the wake of successful examples. Some countries have already shown that's possible.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
8. "You argue for constraint of consumption"
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 10:20 PM
Aug 2016

Not really. Hunter trots that out as a cover for disparaging renewable energy; which is done in the service of nuclear power.

In response to Scotland's recent wind power record he wrote:

1. A couple of nuclear power plants could do this for years at a time, not just a day.

He claims it was just a joke, but it has been a constant of his posting for many years.

Same thread, later:
"Is it possible to promote large scale wind and solar projects or to oppose nuclear power without becoming a deliberate or accidental shill for the "natural" gas industry? "


Posts 1 and 6 from this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1127104127

Low impact lifestyle my ass.

hunter

(38,302 posts)
9. Which countries?
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 11:40 PM
Aug 2016

Germany is a fraud, just like their cars.

German heavy industry is powered by cheap coal at less than five cents a kilowatt hour, same as many other industrial nations.

Residential and small business users are paying near thirty cents a kilowatt hour for the solar and wind bling and electrical interconnections that allow Germany to use surrounding nations for "storage" which isn't any kind of storage at all.

You can see a near-live picture of the German electric generating mix here:

https://www.energy-charts.de/power.htm

The solar and wind portion are pretty damned cool, but the coal power plants keep chugging along.

Sweden has examined the German experience and is seriously reconsidering their own intentions of abandoning nuclear power.

You haven't been paying attention to China if you think people are not buying large U.S. or Australian style homes. (The average home in
Australia is larger than the average U.S. home.) Newly affluent Chinese consumers like large suburban homes the same as anyone else.



https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/aug/20/why-havent-chinas-cities-learned-from-americas-mistakes

I'll try to make my point another way... how do we create some comfortable low energy lifestyles that are voluntary and non-coercive? (Economic "downturns" are repressive and coercive. The very wealthy don't suffer them at all, in fact they use them to increase their wealth.)

Educating and empowering women is important.

Someone who is heating and cooking with coal, and carrying water to their house in a ten liter jug, is going to think an electric rice cooker, a space heater, and a water tap are a big, big deal. Add employment opportunities and schools for all, then family planning will soon follow, even in cultures that traditionally oppose it. (Sadly, this is also why many misogynistic cultures oppose education for women or infrastructure improvements that would benefit women.)

If you do the math that's a two kilowatt connection per household, at least. Bottled gas is another empowering and much less polluting option than coal, charcoal, or firewood, and with bottled gas, maybe, you might use solar and wind for lighting, and cell phones and so on. But either way, if you are opposed to nuclear, you still use gas.

So far as "efficiency" goes, that's an economic abstraction, not always a desirable one. The more efficient an economic process is in one place, the more we can destroy the natural environment in another.

This thing we now call economic "productivity" is a direct measure of the damage we are doing to earth's natural environment and our own human spirit.

If we want to quit fossil fuels, we have to quit fossil fuels. Why go to the trouble of elaborate tax schemes which are easily gamed by unscrupulous people when we can simply shut down, for example, coal fired power plants?




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