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Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 11:46 AM Aug 2016

Hey Nuke Fans...

Another piece of data to chew on:

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201608190060.html

TEPCO’s ‘ice wall’ failing at Fukushima nuclear plant

By KOHEI TOMITA/ Staff Writer

August 19, 2016 at 17:40 JST

Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s “frozen wall of earth” has failed to prevent groundwater from entering the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, and the utility needs a new plan to address the problem, experts said.

An expert panel with the Nuclear Regulation Authority received a report from TEPCO on the current state of the project on Aug. 18. The experts said the ice wall project, almost in its fifth month, has shown little or no success.

“The plan to block groundwater with a frozen wall of earth is failing,” said panel member Yoshinori Kitsutaka, a professor of engineering at Tokyo Metropolitan University. “They need to come up with another solution, even if they keep going forward with the plan.”

More at the link


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NNadir

(33,512 posts)
1. Hey fossil fuel fan! Ever look at lung tissue of any of the 7 million...
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 05:49 PM
Aug 2016

people who die each year from air pollution?

There is not one tiresome anti-nuke on this website who is remotely familiar with epidemiological analysis.

While the assholes around here, almost in their entirety useless clowns, burn electricity, the bulk of which comes from burning dangerous fossil fuels, to pick lint out the Fukushima navel, 19,000 people a day, every day, 365 days a year, ten years a decade, die from air pollution.

Typically, given their clown's eye view of morality, they have nothing to say at all about that.

It would be interesting if one of the assholes worrying about leaks from the reactors at Fukushima could demonstrate that the entire nuclear enterprise, including Fukushima and every other event associated with more than half a century of commercial nuclear power, will kill as many people as will die today from air pollution.

But they won't do so. They don't give a shit about anything but their entirely bizarre fascination with a few atoms of cesium 137 decaying in a cubic meter of water.

If these people want to know - not that they care - why the Earth's atmosphere is now racing over 400 ppm of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide, never to return, they should look in a mirror, not that they can see very well.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
2. Exactly! Nukes and fossil fuels are BOTH terrible energy sources,
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 06:17 PM
Aug 2016

where the impact on living things is considered.

Neither source of energy should be used.

And FWIW: You should not assume that all anti-nuke people are pro-fossil fuels. That's a classic false dichotomy, in the same class with "If you're not a Democrat then you must be a Nazi". The fact is, I can, and do, hate both nuclear and fossil fuels for the damage they do to my one and only home planet.

And I don't exactly appreciate being called an asshole because I don't happen to agree with your blind Utopian fantasies about nuclear. So kindly knock off the ad hominem. It does nothing to persuade anyone to your point of view.

NNadir

(33,512 posts)
3. Anyone who has a trace of scientific literacy will recognize that to be anti-nuke...
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 06:57 PM
Aug 2016

...is to be pro-fossil fuels.

The fact is demonstrated by the failure of so called "renewable energy" - which in the mind of the withered little minds of anti-nukes is listed as "an alternative" - to make even a tiny dent in the accelerating rate of growth of dangerous fossil fuel waste in the planetary atmosphere.

I referred to a class of mindless, poorly educated people, and if you self identify with that class, I cannot help you.

The text of my post does not mention you, specifically, but simply states:

It would be interesting if one of the assholes worrying about leaks from the reactors at Fukushima could demonstrate that the entire nuclear enterprise, including Fukushima and every other event associated with more than half a century of commercial nuclear power, will kill as many people as will die today from air pollution.


As for rudeness: I am proud, by the way, to be a well known "fan" of nuclear energy, and to be asked, even rhetorically, to "chew on data" by a person who understands, clearly nothing about data whatsoever, and is uninformed enough to assume that a newspaper report is "data." I have spent several decades reading papers in the primary scientific literature of energy, and I don't need directions on how to do that from stupid newspaper reporters or people who confuse stupid newspaper reports with "data."

Now it is true that you cited a newspaper report, and I would suggest that the reporter responsible for it rather has his or head up her ass, but I have not stated that you are worrying about leaks from Fukushima while 19,000 people die each day from air pollution. If you are, that does nothing whatsoever from claiming that that is, in fact, insane.

By the way, how many newspaper reports were published today about deaths from air pollution? Does the fact that there were no newspaper reports on this subject mean that 19,000 people didn't die from air pollution?


A comparative risk assessment of burden of disease and injury attributable to 67 risk factors and risk factor clusters in 21 regions, 1990–2010: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010 (Lancet 2012, 380, 2224–60: For air pollution mortality figures see Table 3, page 2238 and the text on page 2240.)

Maybe you will announce that I'm an asshole for pointing this paper assembled by researchers all over the world, but I couldn't care less. I merely note, with unabbreviated disgust, that more recent publications point out that air pollution deaths are rising not falling.

As for "utopia" I'm not interested in that any more than silly anti-nuke whining crybabies are interested in the contents of scientific journals. I am not here to announce that nuclear power is without risk and perfectly safe 100% of the time for all time. I'll leave that sort of rhetoric for those epidemiologically uninformed hand wavers who demand that low paid Chinese miners eat cadmium to make "green" solar cells that haven't worked, aren't working, and won't work on a scale that matters. These ethical pygmies think it's perfectly OK to assume that what they can't do will be easy for the future generations about whom they have not a whit of concern. What I have said is that nuclear energy need not be perfect to be vastly superior to everything else, something which it is.

Anyone who can't understand that, is in my view, an asshole, and a dangerous asshole at that, since such ignorance results in huge losses of life that are unnecessary.

The syllogism that you propose that describing anti-nukes as being pro-fossil fuel as being equivalent to "If you're not a Democrat, your a Nazi" is rather extreme, not quite as extreme as pissing and moaning about minor set backs Fukushima while 19,000 people die each day from air pollution, but reflective, nonetheless of a certain quality of the mind.

If there was an alternative to nuclear power, it would have demonstrated, as nuclear energy has done, that it could prevent the dumping of 60 billion tons of carbon dioxide - about two years worth - into the planetary atmosphere, and that it saved the lives of millions of people who would have otherwise died from air pollution.

These facts, as I never tire of pointing out, are reported irrefutably in one of most read papers written in one of the world's most important environmental scientific journals: Prevented Mortality and Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Historical and Projected Nuclear Power (Environ. Sci. Technol., 2013, 47 (9), pp 4889–4895)

Jim Hansen is no moral lilliputian and given that he has handled data with considerable expertise in this paper, I'm not sure that he needs to be called out by a witless type suggesting that he or she knows, in fact, what "data" is.

Have a nice evening. It's been a pleasure.



kristopher

(29,798 posts)
4. Nope. "Pro-nuclear countries making slower progress on climate targets"
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:35 PM
Aug 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1127104411

You have it exactly backwards, Nnads.
"Pro-nuclear countries making slower progress on climate targets"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1127104411


From the study:
Nuclear energy and path dependence in Europe’s ‘Energy union’: coherence or continued divergence?
Andrew Lawrence, Benjamin Sovacool & Andrew Stirling
Page 622-641 | Published online: 01 Jul 2016

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14693062.2016.1179616


Study is open access.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
5. I won't even dignify that remark with a response.
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:47 PM
Aug 2016

Oh, wait. I just did. So I guess that in addition to being an asshole, and scientifically illiterate, (in spite of my MS degree) I guess I'm a liar too. But frankly, I don't give a flying fig what you believe. Consider yourself ignored, not for your beliefs or positions, which I would happy to debate in a civil manner, but for your insulting condescension, and manifest air of superiority.

NNadir

(33,512 posts)
6. Um...I don't think this "debate" STARTED in a civil manner.
Tue Aug 23, 2016, 08:36 AM
Aug 2016

As far as I can see, there's nothing worthy here of not being condescended.

By the way, I've know many people with Ph.D's who are nonetheless scientifically illiterate in subjects outside their specialty.

Somehow I don't think you have any kind of degree in anything that has anything to do with epidemiology, engineering, specifically nuclear engineering. You are merely a person spewing mindless rote rhetoric on a subject you know nothing about.

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