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Related: About this forumHydrogen storage diffusion and embrittlement
Because it is a small molecule, hydrogen tends to diffuse through any liner material intended to contain it, leading to the embrittlement, or weakening, of its container.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy#Storage
Molecular hydrogen leaks slowly from most containment vessels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy
Lots of R & D has been done and expect more to occur, the Dept of Energy has a hydrogen fact sheet that covers many of these research avenues, including Intermetalic Hydrides, Chemical Hydrides, Complex Hydrides:\http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/fct_h2_storage.pdf
Electrochemical Society in 2004:
Because many of the system parts exposed to hydrogen will be metallic, researchers need a better understanding of the atomic-level processes responsible for hydrogen embrittlement in candidate materialsto develop strategies to prevent failure resulting from long exposure to hydrogen.
http://www.electrochem.org/dl/interface/fal/fal04/IF8-04-Pages40-44.pdf
Many advances have occurred since 2004 and now many hydrogen stations use onsite electrolysis to make Hydrogen, one company even sells units suitable for the homeowner:
ITM Power specializes in electrolysis station for commercial and even homeowner applications.
http://www.itm-power.com/clean-fuel/
Hydrogenics sells hydrogen fueling stations that use onsite electrolysis:
http://www.hydrogenics.com/products-solutions/energy-storage-fueling-solutions/hydrogen-fueling-stations
Airproducts, (you have already linked to an article on their pipeline) sell hydrogen fueling stations that use onsite production or delivered hydrogen:
http://www.airproducts.com/~/media/Files/PDF/industries/hydrogen-hydrogen-fueling-stations-for-transportation-fleets-datasheet.pdf
Germany: onsite production...
http://www.iphe.net/partners/germany/demonstrations.html
Swiss buses refueled from hydrogen produced onsite
http://www.airliquideadvancedbusiness.com/en/who-we-are/local-news/premiere-station-de-remplissage-d-hydrogene-pour-bus-en-suisse.html
Shanghai uses onsite electrolysis
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319907002960
First Element onsite electrolysis 19 stations in California
http://www.firstelementfuel.com/#!about-the-network/c1vey
HafenCity filling station (Shell/Vattenfall), Hamburg
Type of station: Public
Fuels: gaseous hydrogen at 350 and 700 bar
On-site production: electrolysis
Capacity: 20 buses or 200 cars per day
Special features: Located in the HafenCity, on-site electrolysis
http://www.cleanenergypartnership.de/tech/
First Hydrogen station is US uses onsite electrolysis
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1050804_first-hydrogen-filling-station-in-u-s-opens-for-fuel-cell-cars
Protononsite sells onsite hydrogen electrolysis systems for refueling cars
http://protononsite.com/
From wiki
Again the dilemmas of production sources and transportation of hydrogen can now be overcome using on site (home, business, or fuel station) generation of hydrogen from off grid renewable sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy#A_key_tradeoff:_centralized_vs._distributed_production
Storage : Hydrogen is also hard to move around. Whereas oil can be sent through pipelines, and coal can be carried in the back of dump trucks, super-light hydrogen is hard to transport in a reasonable fashion. It is very expensive to move anything more than small amounts of it, making it impractical for most functions. - See more at: http://www.conserve-energy-future.com/Advantages_Disadvantages_HydrogenEnergy.php
British company ACAL Energy has developed a fuel cell that lasts up to 300,000 miles without using platinum -- a heavy metal so valuable that thieves hack off catalytic converters just to obtain it.
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130701/green/130709989#ixzz34Z6MKOeN
Distributed hydrogen production reduces losses thru diffusion. The market has chosen this path initially, in the next decade we'll see more advances in fuel cell technology and storage systems as capital moves into this sector.
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Hydrogen storage diffusion and embrittlement (Original Post)
FogerRox
Jun 2014
OP
Turbineguy
(37,285 posts)1. Correct.
Hydrogen inclusions are a big problem in welding. But it's a well known issue.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)4. Over the last 10-15 years some of these issues have been partially mitigated
At least to the point where fuel cell cars are about to sold in showrooms en mass. If the issues get ironed out over the next decade then fuel cell vehicles will become a major sector in transportation.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)2. Twenty Hydrogen Myths- a peer reviewed white paper by Amory Lovins
A great post with lots of good links (edit-delete unrelated stuff)
(Edit 2: I meant the OP)
Twenty Hydrogen Myths by noted environmentalist Amory Lovins
Amory Bloch Lovins (born November 13, 1947)[3] is an American physicist, environmental scientist, writer, and Chairman/Chief Scientist of the Rocky Mountain Institute. He has worked in the field of energy policy and related areas for four decades. He was named by Time magazine one of the World's 100 most influential people in 2009.
PUBLISHER: Rocky Mountain Institute
Twenty Hydrogen Myths:
Myth #1. A whole hydrogen industry would need to be developed from scratch.
Myth #2. Hydrogen is too dangerous, explosive, or volatile for common use as a fuel.
Myth #3. Making hydrogen uses more energy than it yields, so its prohibitively inefficient
Myth #4. Delivering hydrogen to users would consume most of the energy it contains
Myth #5. Hydrogen cant be distributed in existing pipelines, requiring costly new ones
Myth #6. We dont have practical ways to run cars on gaseous hydrogen, so cars must continue to use liquid fuels
Myth #7. We lack a safe and affordable way to store hydrogen in cars
Myth #8. Compressing hydrogen for automotive storage tanks takes too much energy
Myth #9. Hydrogen is too expensive to compete with gasoline.
Myth #10. Wed need to lace the country with ubiquitous hydrogen production, distribution,and delivery infrastructure before we could sell the first hydrogen car, but thats impractical and far too costly probably hundreds of billions of dollars
Myth #11. Manufacturing enough hydrogen to run a car fleet is a gargantuan and hugely expensive task.
Myth #12. Since renewables are currently too costly, hydrogen would have to be made from fossil fuels or nuclear energy.
Myth #13. Incumbent industries (e.g., oil and car companies) actually oppose hydrogen as a competitive threat, so their hydrogen development efforts are mere window-dressing.
Myth #14. A large-scale hydrogen economy would harm the Earths climate, water balance, or atmospheric chemistry
Myth #15. There are more attractive ways to provide sustainable mobility than adopting hydrogen.
Myth #16. Because the U.S. car fleet takes roughly 14 years to turn over, little can be done to change car technology in the short term
Myth #17. A viable hydrogen transition would take 3050 years or more to complete, and hardly anything worthwhile could be done sooner than 20 years
Myth #18. The hydrogen transition requires a big (say, $100300 billion) Federal crash program, on the lines of the Apollo Program or the Manhattan Project
Myth #19. A crash program to switch to hydrogen is the only realistic way to get off oil.
Myth #20. The Bush Administrations hydrogen program is just a smokescreen to stall adoption of the hybrid-electric and other efficient car designs available now, and wraps fossil and nuclear energy in a green disguise.
http://www.rmi.org/Knowledge-Center/Library/E03-05_TwentyHydrogenMyths
Direct link to PDF: http://www.rmi.org/cms/Download.aspx?id=6667&file=E03-05_20HydrogenMyths.pdf&title=Twenty+Hydrogen+Myths
Amory Lovins has received ten honorary doctorates and was elected a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 1984, of the World Academy of Art and Science in 1988, and of the World Business Academy in 2001. He has received the World Technology Award, the Right Livelihood Award, the Blue Planet Prize, Volvo Environment Prize, the 4th Annual Heinz Award in the Environment in 1998, and the National Design (Design Mind), Jean Meyer, and Lindbergh Awards.
Lovins is also the recipient of the Time Hero for the Planet awards, the Benjamin Franklin and Happold Medals, and the Shingo, Nissan, Mitchell, and Onassis Prizes. He has also received a MacArthur Fellowship and is an honorary member of the American Institute of Architects (AIA), a Foreign Member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Engineering Sciences, and an Honorary Senior Fellow of the Design Futures Council. Furthermore he is on the Advisory Board of the Holcim Foundation
And because it can't be posted enough:
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)3. An afternoon with Mike Strizki- tank farm @2:39
see a hydrogen tank farm that is part of a solar hydrogen whole house system
Solar>Electricity>Electrolysis>Hydrogen= Independence+Power
Powerful Independence
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)5. Detailed CA Hydrogen station info
Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:16 AM - Edit history (1)
you might find this interesting
(PDF) http://cafcp.org/sites/files/20140211_H2-Station-profiles.pdf
particularly the stations using electrolysis
Hydrogen Fueling Station Emeryville CA
Station Information
Address: 1172 45th St.
Emeryville, CA 94608
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 65 kg/day (electrolyzer)
Hydrogen Source/Storage: Proton OnSite electrolyzer using 100% renewable solar-powered electricity produces 65 kg/day of hydrogen for passenger vehicles
Hydrogen Fueling Station Cal State LA
Station Information
Address: 5151 State University Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90032
Station Status: Commissioning Phase
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 60 kg/day
Fuels: 10-15 vehicles/day
Hydrogen Supply/Equipment
Hydrogen Source/Storage: Hydrogenics Electrolyzer: 60kg/day H2
Production
Storage: 60kg gaseous H2 storage
Hydrogen Fueling Station -West LA/Santa Monica
Station Information
Address: 11576 Santa Monica Blvd.
West Los Angeles, CA 90025
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000 psi only
Supply Capacity: 30 kg/day
Fuels: 3-5 cars/day
Hydrogen Supply/Equipment
Hydrogen Source/Storage: On site electrolyzer (30 kg/day capacity) 44 kg H2 storage at 7,500 PSI
Station Information
Address: 11576 Santa Monica Blvd.
West Los Angeles, CA 90025
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000 psi only
Supply Capacity: 30 kg/day
Fuels: 3-5 cars/day
Hydrogen Supply/Equipment
Hydrogen Source/Storage: On site electrolyzer (30 kg/day capacity) 44 kg H2 storage at 7,500 PSI
Here's the station that will supply the Hyundai FCEV
Hydrogen Fueling Station Fountain Valley CA
Station Information
Address: 10844 Ellis Ave
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 100 kg/day
Fuels: 25-30 cars/day
Hydrogen Source/Storage: Renewable hydrogen produced on site from methane gas generated from wastewater at OCSD treatment plant
Station Information
Address: 10844 Ellis Ave
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 100 kg/day
Fuels: 25-30 cars/day
Hydrogen Source/Storage: Renewable hydrogen produced on site from methane gas generated from wastewater at OCSD treatment plant