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applegrove

(118,577 posts)
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 07:06 PM Mar 2016

Solar Advocates Have Their Eyes On Low Income Communities

Solar Advocates Have Their Eyes On Low Income Communities
by Samantha Page at Think Progress

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/03/18/3761308/low-income-solar/

"SNIP............


But it turns out that in the battle to transition to a cleaner, more networked grid, low-income communities are the next big front.

There is no question that distributed solar changes the way we get and pay for our electricity. It is a disruptive technology — something that can change the fundamental way business is done. That in and of itself creates resistance, but when talking about who can afford solar, it’s worth looking at a parallel example.

When personal computers were introduced three decades ago, the first people to buy them were from affluent households, large companies, and schools — just like solar, computers started as something tapped by companies and high-income “early adopters.” Only as prices went down and infrastructure adjusted did computers become widespread. Ultimately, they ushered in the Internet Era. The change simultaneously devastated the Postal Service, one of America’s longest-lasting businesses, and impacted the way millions do business.

Still, no one made the argument that society should stifle computer usage because low-income households couldn’t afford them. In fact, the parallel argument for why solar access isn’t fair has been pretty thoroughly debunked, but the fact remains that it is easier for some people and companies to “go solar” than others.



..............SNIP"
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NNadir

(33,509 posts)
1. Well, they've been sucking the breath out of poor people for quite some time, subsidizing the...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 07:49 PM
Mar 2016

...the rich at the expense of the poor, so maybe they can throw some crumbs from their useless industry at the poor.

If you're working two or three jobs at minimum wage to pay your electricity bill, because of "feed in tarriffs" you're not putting $50,000 worth of solar cells on the roof of your McMansion to generate $10.00 worth of electricity every day for tax breaks.

Mark my words, when the solar cells on those McMansion roofs become more electronic waste, the "recycling" strategy for handling those toxic materials is going to fall on the poorest of the poor, who will have to breathe cadmium dust, indium, selenium and tellurium so that the same smug rich people who foisted this very, very, very, very bad idea on humanity can claim that their trash is "recycled."

The rich won't be in those factories, though probably they'll own them.

The solar industry is a disgrace.

NNadir

(33,509 posts)
3. The solar industry is a colossal failure.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:07 PM
Mar 2016

Humanity spent close to 1 trillion dollars on it in the last ten years, and it doesn't produce even two of the 560 exajoules humanity consumes each year.

It's a tremendous failure, but it is supported by rote superficial thinking and a lack of education and reflection.

If one is truly against fossil fuels - and I am, as I favor a 100% nuclear energy source - one does not support a technology that requires back up by dangerous fossil fuels, in particular, dangerous natural gas. All future generations will have to pay for the tragedy that our natural gas practices today will leave behind.

Dangerous natural gas, and not so called "renewable energy" is the fastest growing source of electricity in this country and the world.

This is a tragedy. Part of the cause of this tragedy is the faith based attempt to promote a technology that, um, doesn't work very well.

The solar industry will never be as sustainable, as affordable, as safe, and as reliable as the nuclear industry.

applegrove

(118,577 posts)
4. I was a fan of nuclear until someone pointed out to me that you need
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:15 PM
Mar 2016

to store its' waste for hundreds of thousands of years. And I thought if it is all nuclear then how dangerous will it be to store all that nuclear waste. Then Fukushima happened. My brothers lives in Japan.

NNadir

(33,509 posts)
5. Cadmium has no half life, and leaking solar cells is far more likely to have health consequences...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:26 PM
Mar 2016

than a monitored fuel rod.

This is particularly true because solar cells are distributed, as are all other electronic wastes, and thus their collection after they've become useless - not that they're really useful now - is likely to be inefficient and leaky.

By contrast, nuclear fuels have a very high energy density and are not distributed. They are the only energy by products of any energy industry, including the awful solar industry, that can be safely contained at their point of use indefinitely.

I oppose however, their storage, on the grounds that used nuclear fuel is too valuable to be under utilized.

My contention is that there is no such thing as "nuclear waste," since there are zero components of used nuclear fuel that are without potential value.

It's certainly not my fault that this unfortunate meme of "storing nuclear waste" has gained credence, albeit very, very, very, very toxic credence.

If you are concerned about so called "nuclear waste," because "someone pointed out" that you "need to store its wastes" for thousands of years, you haven't thought very much about the topic at all on any serious level.

The people who complain the most about so called "nuclear waste" are usually spectacularly uninterested in the fact that dangerous fossil fuel wastes in the form of air pollution, kills about 7 million people per year. What's ironic is that if the storage of used nuclear fuel killed one one millionth as many people, seven people, hundreds of thousands of metric tons of dangerous fossil fuel wastes would be released to complain about it. This might be called the "Fukushima syndrome." I strongly suspect that the electricity generated to run computers to complain about Fukushima released more toxic dangerous fossil fuel waste and thus killed more people than radiation ever did or will.

I will now repeat some elements of a recent comment I just made elsewhere:

Here, with an large consortium of international authors of research physicians, epidemiologists, health authorities, and other academic researchers is a comprehensive of all the major risk factors on this planet and the mortality that results from them:

A comparative risk assessment of burden of disease and injury attributable to 67 risk factors and risk factor clusters in 21 regions, 1990–2010: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010. (Lancet 2012, 380, 2224–60) If you're really interested in risk, you might mosey on over to a good scientific library and open the paper up. It's illuminating. For air pollution mortality figures see Table 3, page 2238 and the text on page 2240.

Let me know if you see in that paper any reference to the storage of so called "nuclear waste" as a demonstrated health risk on this planet.

Nuclear energy need not be risk free to be vastly superior to everything else. It only needs to be vastly superior to everything else, which it is. The practice of demonizing the form of energy invented by the finest minds of the 20th century is a crime against all future generations, an appalling crime, if one looks into it.

I explored this point elsewhere: Current World Energy Demand, Ethical World Energy Demand, Depleted Uranium and the Centuries to Come

Have a nice weekend.

hunter

(38,309 posts)
6. How well did student loans for sketchy colleges and trade schools work?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:00 PM
Mar 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_Colleges

Someone is always figuring out some new way to nickle and dime the poor into deeper poverty.

If anyone wants to help an impoverished communities, the only right way to go about it is to ask them what they need.

Patching over leaky roofs with expensive solar panels probably isn't on that list, but it's probably a great way to kick-start gentrification rot.

Affluent people will see all those solar panels and swoon.

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