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bemildred

(90,061 posts)
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 08:22 AM Oct 2015

Erdogan warns Russia against losing 'friend like Turkey'

BRUSSELS

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said Russia will lose "a lot" if it loses Turkey as a friend.

Erdogan’s comments came Tuesday in the aftermath of a Russian fighter jet’s violation of Turkish air space over the weekend, which put ties between Moscow and Ankara under a spotlight.

Addressing a joint press conference with Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel in Brussels, Erdogan said: "If Russia loses a friend like Turkey with which it has conducted many businesses, it will lose a lot".

The president also highlighted Turkey’s ties with the NATO alliance.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/guncel/erdogan-warns-russia-against-losing-friend-like-turkey/433506

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Erdogan warns Russia against losing 'friend like Turkey' (Original Post) bemildred Oct 2015 OP
His reaction makes it seem like this is about more than a single violation GreatGazoo Oct 2015 #1
Erdogan is in a most unfortunate spot. bemildred Oct 2015 #2
Agreed about the greater regional aspect which makes it all more complicated to sort out GreatGazoo Oct 2015 #3
Read the Kurdish piece I posted in the Syria thread. Same deal. nt bemildred Oct 2015 #5
UPDATE 2-Turkish PM condemns video of militant's body dragged by car bemildred Oct 2015 #4
. nt bemildred Oct 2015 #6
Russia Military’s Actions in Syria Cause Rift With Turkey bemildred Oct 2015 #7
Turkey says its jets harassed on Syria border bemildred Oct 2015 #8
Russia says ready for talks with Turkey to avoid ’misunderstandings’ in Syria bemildred Oct 2015 #9
EU seeks Turkey help to block migrant flows, offers cash bemildred Oct 2015 #10
Russia outflanks Turkey in Syria bemildred Oct 2015 #11
He's got that Election coming up Nov. 1..... KoKo Oct 2015 #12
Putin is making an example of him, I think. bemildred Oct 2015 #13
Bravo Codevilla — and a note on Russian-Turkish Fighter Contact bemildred Oct 2015 #18
Turkey helpless to prevent unwanted Russian operations in Syria bemildred Oct 2015 #19
Interesting...... KoKo Oct 2015 #20
Potential terrorist influx into Turkey poses security threat, experts say bemildred Oct 2015 #14
Okay..... KoKo Oct 2015 #16
War is an ugly business. And generally a bad idea too. bemildred Oct 2015 #17
Yep...and I remember well...Vietnam.. KoKo Oct 2015 #21
Erdogan, Russia and the Kurds bemildred Oct 2015 #15

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
2. Erdogan is in a most unfortunate spot.
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 08:46 AM
Oct 2015

But then he is a weasel, so that sort of thing is going to happen.

There is a great deal of absolute bullshit being trotted out at the moment, about what is going on in the Great Middle Eastern War, which is what I've decide to call it now. It is one big war at this point, showing every sign or ramping up.

I'm still going through the news, I'll get back to you if I have something more to say about that.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
3. Agreed about the greater regional aspect which makes it all more complicated to sort out
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 09:03 AM
Oct 2015

One thing that fits here IMHO is that Turkey has supported ISIS with the goal of fighting the Kurds and destabalizing Assad.

Turkey has been part of the on-going financing of ISIS:

(7/28/15) A US-led raid on the compound housing the Islamic State's "chief financial officer" produced evidence that Turkish officials directly dealt with ranking ISIS members, Martin Chulov of the Guardian reported recently.
...
Documents and flash drives seized during the Sayyaf raid reportedly revealed links "so clear" and "undeniable" between Turkey and ISIS "that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara," senior Western official familiar with the captured intelligence told the Guardian.
...
"ISIS commanders told us to fear nothing at all because there was full cooperation with the Turks," the (former ISIS) fighter said. "ISIS saw the Turkish army as its ally especially when it came to attacking the Kurds in Syria."

http://www.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7

Likely Turkey doesn't like the Russian's choice of targets.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
4. UPDATE 2-Turkish PM condemns video of militant's body dragged by car
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 09:13 AM
Oct 2015

Oct 5 (Reuters) - Turkey's prime minister condemned dissemination of a video purporting to show a dead Kurdish militant dragged through the streets tied by the neck to an armoured police vehicle, images that could further inflame tension in the country's southeast.

"It is unacceptable to treat any corpse this way, even if it is a dead terrorist," Ahmet Davutoglu said, while not explicitly confirming the veracity of the video and photographs widely posted on Twitter.

Davutoglu, whose AK Party faces national elections in November, was speaking in a live interview with HaberTurk TV about the video. It was apparently taken in the province of Sirnak, focus of clashes since a ceasefire between the army and the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) broke down in July.

"Our Interior Ministry ... will conduct a comprehensive investigation, not into the incident itself, but into the way in which this incident was reflected to the world," Davutoglu said.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/turkey-kurds-idINL8N12539420151005

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
7. Russia Military’s Actions in Syria Cause Rift With Turkey
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 11:09 AM
Oct 2015

ISTANBUL — Russia’s bombing of rebel groups in Syria backed by Turkey and the incursions by Russian warplanes into Turkish airspace have undercut President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s priorities of stemming the flow of refugees into his country and pushing for the ouster of the Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad.

Mr. Erdogan, who for years has been at odds with the United States over Washington’s reluctance to act more aggressively to oust Mr. Assad, reacted angrily to Russia’s new military push to bolster him. While in many ways close to Russia, Mr. Erdogan is now leaning more heavily on his allies in NATO, reflecting the shifting forces buffeting Turkey as it copes with the military, economic and humanitarian fallout of Syria’s civil war.

“An attack on Turkey means an attack on NATO,” Mr. Erdogan said at a news conference in Brussels on Tuesday.

“Our positive relationship with Russia is known,” he said. “But if Russia loses a friend like Turkey, with whom it has been cooperating on many issues, it will lose a lot, and it should know that.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/world/middleeast/russia-turkey-tensions-rise-over-syria.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. Turkey says its jets harassed on Syria border
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 11:10 AM
Oct 2015

Turkish F-16 jets were harassed by an unidentified MIG-29 aircraft and missile systems on the Syrian border, the military said on Tuesday.

The Turkish jets were harassed by a MIG-29, whose nationality could not be identified, for 4 minutes and 30 seconds by putting them under radar lock, the Turkish General Staff said in a statement while on a patrol mission. The aircrafts were also harassed by surface-to-air missile systems deployed in Syria.

The statement came in the wake of at least one incident of violation of the Turkish airspace by Russian planes on the border with Syria at the weekend. NATO said a second Russian jet also violated the Turkish airspace on Sunday, dramatically escalating tensions caused by Russian air strikes in Syria.

NATO denounced Russia on Monday for "irresponsible behavior" following the violations while Turkey warned that any future aerial intruder would be treated like an enemy. Speaking in Brussels during a visit, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan warned Russia on Tuesday that it would lose a lot if it destroyed its friendship with Ankara and said Turkey would not remain patient in the face of violations of its air space by Russian warplanes.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_turkey-says-its-jets-harassed-on-syria-border_400751.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
9. Russia says ready for talks with Turkey to avoid ’misunderstandings’ in Syria
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 11:11 AM
Oct 2015

Russia's Deputy Defense Minister ANATOly Antonov said on Tuesday Moscow would welcome a Turkish defense ministry delegation to discuss avoiding any "misunderstandings" in Syria where Russia and a coalition of Western and Middle Eastern allies carry out rival air strikes.

NATO on Tuesday rejected Moscow's explanation that its warplanes violated the air space of alliance member Turkey at the weekend by mistake.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_russia-says-ready-for-talks-with-turkey-to-avoid-misunderstandings-in-syria_400753.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. EU seeks Turkey help to block migrant flows, offers cash
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 11:13 AM
Oct 2015

The European Union wants more Turkish cooperation with Greece and other EU neighbours to stem migration flows and in return is ready to offer more funding for Syrian and Iraqi refugees in Turkey under an EU plan published on Tuesday.

The draft action plan was presented to President Tayyip Erdogan by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker on Monday, during a visit to Brussels by the Turkish leader. Officials on both sides said the document would form the basis of further negotiations to address the migrant crisis.

The plan lists actions to be taken by the EU and Turkey on two broad themes -- supporting refugees and their Turkish hosts and, secondly, preventing irregular migration.

The EU would, the draft said, provide up to 1 billion euros (723.52 million pounds) for this year and next to help Turkey cope with some 2.2 million Syrian and Iraqi refugees as well as further funding. Some refugees would have a chance to resettle from Turkey to Europe.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/06/uk-europe-migrants-turkey-plan-idUKKCN0S01SY20151006?rpc=401

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. Russia outflanks Turkey in Syria
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 08:25 PM
Oct 2015

Turkey has voiced strong opposition to the Russian military intervention in Syria. How far will Turkey take this campaign?

President Recep Erdogan has criticized the Russian move on successive days before leaving on a visit to Brussels and Paris Monday. He carried with him a 3-point agenda to rev up the ‘train-equip’ program for Syrian rebels, declaration of ‘terror-free zones’ in Syria and the establishment of a ‘no-fly zone’ in Syrian airspace.

Erdogan is upset that during his recent visit to Moscow, he was not taken into confidence regarding the imminent launch of Russian air strikes in Syria. Clearly, Russia outflanked Turkey. This puts Turkey in a fix.

There are three key vectors involved here. One, Moscow is frontally cornering Ankara on the latter’s clandestine support to the Islamic State [IS] and other extremist Syrian opposition groups operating inside Syria.

http://atimes.com/2015/10/russia-outflanks-turkey-in-syria/

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
12. He's got that Election coming up Nov. 1.....
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:30 AM
Oct 2015

Imagine he's raising as much fuss as he can to regain the power he had before the last election when the Kurd faction managed to get a voice in the Parliament. And, with that publicized incident of the Kurd being dragged behind a truck...its going to be tougher for him.

Edit:

OOPs...I read the rest of the article....and, it answered my questions I had posted in reply!

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
13. Putin is making an example of him, I think.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:41 AM
Oct 2015

The Sauds better watch out too.

Erdogan has been doing a lot of double dealing, that is normal, but he is not very good at it.

The consensus seems to be that he has been supporting the jihadiis, and trying to take out Assad, and he is going to have to give that up.

But I think they will work it out it Erdogan wins the elections, neither can really desire a break.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
18. Bravo Codevilla — and a note on Russian-Turkish Fighter Contact
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 08:18 AM
Oct 2015

Angelo Codevilla’s terse and magisterial reading of Putin’s war aims is simply the best thing I have read on a subject which elicits the sort of heavy breathing that belongs in pulp scenario novels (e.g., Commentary Magazine’s post this week entitled “It’s Not a New Cold War– It’s Something Worse“). The US ambled about in a fantasy world after the misnamed Arab Spring, searching for “moderate Sunnis” who might represent a viable alternative to the Assad regime in Syria. Like most sleepwalkers, Washington is grouchy about the rude wake-up, but there is no risk of war, hot or cold.

Something additional, though, needs to be said about Russia and Turkey, which the estimable M.K. Bhadrakumar (India’s past ambassador to Turkey) neglected to say in his note today (“Russia Outflanks Turkey in Syria“). NATO has protested Russia’s violation of Turkish air space, and the usual commentators have been wheeled out to warn that air-space infractions followed by fighter interception can lead to nasty accidents. But that is beside the point. In order to suppress the emergence of a Kurdish zone in northern Syria linked to the de facto Kurdish state in northern Iraq, Turkey has been supporting whatever Islamists it find, including ISIS, to harry the Kurds. It has been using fighter cover to favor its Islamist allies in its war on the Kurds.

Turkish journalist Kadri Gursel last week explained the game in AI-Monitor:


Using some imagination, one could foresee the adverse impacts Russia’s move will have on Ankara’s policies on the ground. Ankara is now likely to be forced to end the de facto situation — virtually a no-fly zone — it has enforced casually in border areas since 2012. In June 2012, after a Turkish reconnaissance plane was shot down by an air defense system in Syria, Ankara announced new rules of engagement, including the interception of Syrian aircraft flying close to Turkish airspace. There has been no indication so far that these rules of engagement have changed. Since the summer of 2012, Turkish media have occasionally reported incidents of Turkish fighter jets taking off from their bases to chase off Syrian planes and helicopters flying “too close” to the border.

Ankara-backed Islamist groups fighting Assad’s regime have emerged as the main beneficiary of these rules of engagement, which have effectively served as a Turkish air cover for their military and logistical operations in border regions.


NATO let the Turks go rogue in their campaign against the Kurds, who will outnumber ethnic Turks among Turkey’s under-25 population in less than twenty years. The Obama administration has given the Turks a pass even when Turkish actions blatantly violate Washington’s declared policy. Evidently Putin has decided to punch Erdogan in the nose, just as he punchd Obama in the nose by blasting some American-sponsored Sunni fighters. Someone has to take the fall in the region, and that someone would be Turkey.


http://atimes.com/2015/10/bravo-codevilla-and-a-note-on-russian-turkish-fighter-contact/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
19. Turkey helpless to prevent unwanted Russian operations in Syria
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 08:22 AM
Oct 2015

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said he is losing patience with Russian jets crossing the border after Moscow launched an air campaign in support of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad last week. "An attack on Turkey means an attack on NATO," he warned.

The military alliance has, rhetorically at least, leapt to Turkey's defense, describing the Russian violations as "extremely dangerous", raising the prospect of direct confrontation between the former Cold War adversaries.

Russia's actions are galling for Erdoğan, who has lobbied in vain for Assad's removal. The Syrian army carried out what appeared to be its first major assault backed by Russian air strikes on Wednesday, highlighting how Turkey has been left impotent as the conflict over its southern border takes on an increasingly international dimension.

"Russia coming in highlights that Turkey's policies in Syria are not working," said Jonathan Friedman, Turkey analyst at Stroz Friedberg, a risk consultancy.

http://national.bgnnews.com/turkey-helpless-to-prevent-unwanted-russian-operations-in-syria-haberi/10075

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
20. Interesting......
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 08:58 PM
Oct 2015

As they say in "Lawyer Speak" ....

too many moving parts to assess at this point.


bemildred

(90,061 posts)
14. Potential terrorist influx into Turkey poses security threat, experts say
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 01:46 PM
Oct 2015
See ...

As reports that a Russian-supported ground offensive by the Syrian Army targeting rebels is under way in central Syria, experts argue that the offensive against rebels will lead to an exodus of refugees from the country and pose a security threat to Turkey due to the influx of terrorists.

Russia and Syria carried out what appeared to be the first major coordinated assaults on Syrian insurgents on Wednesday, targeting rebels in the west rather than Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) militants, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

The combined assault hit towns close to the north-south highway that runs through major cities in the mainly government-held west of Syria, said the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a British-based group that tracks the conflict, according to Reuters.

Also an Associated Press (AP) report, based on information from a Syrian official, confirmed long-standing speculation that Syria's embattled President Bashar al-Assad, bolstered by Russian forces, is hoping to drive out the rebel forces to the regime's north.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_potential-terrorist-influx-into-turkey-poses-security-threat-experts-say_400885.html

Erdogan is going to have his own civil war soon. Jordan and the Sauds better watch out too. Putin will seal the border once he drives the jihadis out. Let them have a taste of their own medicine so they will think twice next time..

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
16. Okay.....
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 08:19 PM
Oct 2015
Erdogan is going to have his own civil war soon. Jordan and the Sauds better watch out too. Putin will seal the border once he drives the jihadis out. Let them have a taste of their own medicine so they will think twice next time..


Things are going to get even MORE complicated......

Can't say that this or anything else isn't expected since the New Regime is in Town?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
17. War is an ugly business. And generally a bad idea too.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 09:04 PM
Oct 2015

Good wars are short and violent and direct. The winners win, the losers disappear, and everybody else gets to go back to living.
Which is why politicians always delude themselves that their war will be short.
Bad wars are long and desultory and vicious.
We were in Vietnam fifteen years or so, depending on how you count.
And we just did it again.
Vainglory.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. Erdogan, Russia and the Kurds
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:59 PM
Oct 2015

THERE is a disturbing similarity between Turkish and Russian behavior in Syria. Both are supposed to be committed to fighting the terrorism of Daesh, (the so-called IS). Yet their military action has not targeted Daesh. Turkey has used July’s suicide bombing in the border town of Suruc, which killed 32, a crime that was widely blamed on Daesh, as an excuse to attack the Kurdish rebel PKK movement. Russia meanwhile has been busy using its newly-arrived military muscle in Syria, to attack the Free Syrian army. Like the Turkish air force, Russian warplanes have rarely assailed the real enemy, Daesh.

Given this, there is a grim irony that Moscow and Ankara are at loggerheads over the incursion of at least one Russian fighter into Turkish airspace. It appears that one warplane that flew briefly into Turkey was a Syrian fighter. In both cases Turkish jets launched to intercept the intruding aircraft were “lit up” by the weapons systems on the foreign aircraft, the precursor to launching missiles against them. It is also being reported that a ground radar in Syria fixed on the Turkish planes.

On each occasion that this has happened, the intruders withdrew into Syrian airspace after several minutes. Moscow is claiming that the one incident to which it is admitting, was due to a navigational error, though it has not gone so far as to apologize. This itself suggests that the Russian pilot made no mistake at all. Rather the Russians are stirring the pot and goading the Turks into trying to attack one of their warplanes.

Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan can well anticipate the consequences of such a challenge. Ankara gets 60 percent of its gas from Russia, which is also its sixth largest trading partner. Turkish construction firms have big contracts in Russia and Turkey is involved in major oil pipeline projects with Moscow. Erdogan has the example of Ukraine to tell him that Putin is perfectly prepared to turn off the gas taps to send a powerful political message. As Fall turns to winter, Turks will not be pleased with the prospect of shivering with cold on the icy Anatolian plateau.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20151008259031

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