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geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:19 AM Oct 2015

Netanyahu Reduced to Defending Hitler. Really ...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/netanyahu-reduced-to-defending-hitler-really

All that said, al-Husseini didn't convince Hitler to exterminate European Jewry. Hitler didn't need to convinced. (It's hard to believe this requires saying.) As bad as he was, al-Husseini was a insignificant small fry in the tragic drama of the final years of the Third Reich.

Jews of all people can usually be expected to accept that Hitler didn't need any convincing or nudging or encouragement to order the Final Solution. There have been some fringe scholars who've tried to portray al-Husseini as somehow one of the architects of the Final Solution. But these claims have never been accepted by mainstream or legitimate Holocaust scholars. It's just not true. The origins of the alleged exchange Netanyahu quotes is even more obscure. It doesn't even have a documented history as propaganda or conspiracy theory. Regardless, no legitimate scholars believe any of this.

But this is about more than mere historical error. And it's worth considering what this was all about. Despite cases like that of al-Husseini, the Palestinians were essentially uninvolved bystanders to the Holocaust, though one can argue that they were also its indirect victims. Nonetheless, here Netanyahu is trying to reframe them as actual instigators of the Holocaust. The Palestinians thus become a sort of moral one-stop-shopping for the entire drama of 20th century Jewry.


Now, propagandists are capable of almost anything. But here, it is simply amazing that the need to do this brings Netanyahu so far as to actually advance a limited exoneration of Adolf Hitler. Adolf Hitler. And make no mistake: that is what it is. Hitler only wanted to deport Jews, says Netanyahu - an outrage and a crime, but hardly unprecedented in history. He had to be convinced to order extermination rather than expulsion.

When you, as a Jew, get to the point of making excuses for Adolf Hitler, partly exculpating him to make some political point, you really need to step back and ask how you got there.

There's really nothing more to say.


No one from the center-right in Israel has criticized Netanyahu for this.
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Netanyahu Reduced to Defending Hitler. Really ... (Original Post) geek tragedy Oct 2015 OP
"No one from the center-right in Israel has criticized Netanyahu for this" = not true oberliner Oct 2015 #1
from your link: geek tragedy Oct 2015 #2
Exactly oberliner Oct 2015 #3
he's doubling down, and if you look at online comments sections, geek tragedy Oct 2015 #4
Online comments sections are usually pretty ugly oberliner Oct 2015 #7
he hasn't backed away from it, he's claiming that people geek tragedy Oct 2015 #8
He is not claiming that "the Palestinians caused the Holocaust" oberliner Oct 2015 #10
That's the thing--the Mufti's absolutely abhorrent record of participating geek tragedy Oct 2015 #13
I agree with you oberliner Oct 2015 #16
Then why rush to his defense again? R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2015 #17
That was stupid of me oberliner Oct 2015 #20
"As he boarded a plane for Berlin" Scootaloo Oct 2015 #9
Isn't he already wanted for war crimes across most of Europe? oberliner Oct 2015 #11
I don't think any governments there consider him wanted Scootaloo Oct 2015 #12
I doubt Germany will pursue charges for these remarks oberliner Oct 2015 #15
Thing is, Netanyahu DID ABSOLVE HITLER. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #18
Yes - it's crazy oberliner Oct 2015 #19
Don't hold your breath (n/t) PJMcK Oct 2015 #6
He's the greatest threat PJMcK Oct 2015 #5
Well, frankly, Netanbooboo is looking for a living entity R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2015 #14
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
1. "No one from the center-right in Israel has criticized Netanyahu for this" = not true
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:31 AM
Oct 2015

Even Netanyahu's loyal defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, distanced himself from the comments, saying that "history is actually very, very clear."

"Hitler initiated it, Haj Amin al-Husseini joined him and unfortunately the jihadist movements promote anti-Semitism to this day, including incitement in the Palestinian Authority that is based on the legacy of the Nazis," he told Israel's Army Radio.

http://news.yahoo.com/netanyahu-causes-uproar-linking-palestinians-holocaust-101756502.html

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
2. from your link:
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:34 AM
Oct 2015
Moshe Zimmermann, a prominent Holocaust and anti-Semitism researcher at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said Netanyahu made a "far-reaching argument" that didn't hold up.

"Any attempt to deflect the burden from Hitler to others is a form of Holocaust denial," he told The Associated Press. "It cheapens the Holocaust."


Israel's head of state is engaging in a form of Holocaust denial/Holocaust revisionism.

This is what Herzl had in mind?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
3. Exactly
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:39 AM
Oct 2015

Which is why he is being criticized from everyone who knows anything about the subject.

He should admit that he had his facts wrong and apologize for the statement post haste.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
4. he's doubling down, and if you look at online comments sections,
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:41 AM
Oct 2015

the rightwingers all have his back.

Palestinians are worse than Nazis in their estimation.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
7. Online comments sections are usually pretty ugly
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:49 AM
Oct 2015

And he's actually backed away from the comment, not doubling down.

Netanyahu denies absolving Hitler for Holocaust, says mufti 'wanted Jews dead'

Hitler is responsible for killing six million Jews in the Holocaust, and the Palestinian Arab leader at the time, Haj Amin al-Husseini, encouraged him and also wanted to see the Jews dead, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said as he boarded a plane for Berlin on Wednesday.

Netanyahu's clarification came as an uproar ensued as a result of comments he made a day earlier that some interpreted as taking the blame for the Holocaust off of Hitler's shoulders, and placing it on Husseini.

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Netanyahu-denies-absolving-Hitler-for-Holocaust-says-mufti-wanted-Jews-dead-428618

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
8. he hasn't backed away from it, he's claiming that people
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:57 AM
Oct 2015

are distorting the plain meaning of his words, while doubling down on his claim that the Palestinians caused the Holocaust.

In a statement to reporters on Wednesday afternoon, as he prepared to head to Berlin, Netanyahu asserted that his comments had been misconstrued. “It is absurd. I had no intention to absolve Hitler of responsibility for his diabolical destruction of European Jewry. Hitler was responsible for the Final Solution to exterminate six million Jews. He made ​​the decision. It is equally absurd to ignore the role played by the Mufti, Haj Amin al -Husseini, a war criminal, for encouraging and urging Hitler, Ribbentropp, Himmler and others, to exterminate European Jewry. There is much evidence about this, including the testimony of Eichmann’s deputy at the Nuremberg trials, not now, but after World War II.”

Added Netanyahu, “The Mufti was instrumental in the decision to exterminate the Jews of Europe. The importance of his role must not be ignored. The Mufti repeatedly proposed to the authorities, primarily Hitler, Ribbentropp and Himmler, to exterminate the Jews of Europe. He considered it a suitable solution for the Palestinian question.” Netanyahu quoted Eichmann’s deputy, saying at the Nuremberg trials, “”The Mufti was one of the instigators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and was a partner and adviser to Eichmann and Hitler for carrying out this plan’.”



He's explicitly doubling-down on the Holocaust revisionism. The Nazis had already decided to exterminate Europe's Jews. He's basing everything on the testimony of one Nazi, to the detriment of the historical record.

When one sees Putinyahoo (and those who get his back on this) getting all worked up over the Holocaust, we should remember that this is an actor reciting lines for a propaganda film, not something that comes from the heart.

If you want to see the difference between Zionism and Judaism, Benjamin Netanyahu is a very good place to start.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
10. He is not claiming that "the Palestinians caused the Holocaust"
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:11 PM
Oct 2015

Look again at what you decided not to bold:

Hitler was responsible for the Final Solution to exterminate six million Jews

I had no intention to absolve Hitler of responsibility for his diabolical destruction of European Jewry.

That is pretty clear.

That said, he is clearly overplaying the role of the Mufti to make his rhetorical point that Palestinian leaders have been trying to kill Jews since before Israel existed.

He should be ashamed of himself for doing so. It is simply not true.

What is true is that the Mufti was a strong supporter of Hitler's endeavors with respect to killing Jews.

He should have just left it at that (and would have still been able to make the same rhetorical point).

However, he is a pompous windbag who never admits mistakes and comically exaggerates and/or lies in order to try to prove his point (as is evidenced by his various appearances at the UN).

He is like Donald Rumsfled, Ted Cruz, and Donald Trump rolled into one.

But even they know better than to spew BS about the Holocaust.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
13. That's the thing--the Mufti's absolutely abhorrent record of participating
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:18 PM
Oct 2015

in genocide needs no dressing up.

He didn't need to go there.

But, yet he did.

And not by accident.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
20. That was stupid of me
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:25 PM
Oct 2015

There is no defense for his remark - he should apologize immediately and admit that he was wrong.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
9. "As he boarded a plane for Berlin"
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:00 PM
Oct 2015

Does he know that holocaust revisionism is a crime in Germany?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
11. Isn't he already wanted for war crimes across most of Europe?
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:13 PM
Oct 2015

He's going to have to limit his international travel to Asia and Africa.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
12. I don't think any governments there consider him wanted
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:15 PM
Oct 2015

I know that there were petitions in the UK and... Spain, I think? to that effect.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
18. Thing is, Netanyahu DID ABSOLVE HITLER.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:52 PM
Oct 2015

Here's the direct quote, from netanyahu himself.

And this attack and other attacks on the Jewish community in 1920, 1921, 1929, were instigated by a call of the Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who was later sought for war crimes in the Nuremberg trials because he had a central role in fomenting the final solution. He flew to Berlin. Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, "If you expel them, they'll all come here." "So what should I do with them?" he asked. He said, "Burn them."


This is absolutely Netanyahu exonerating Hitler of the Holocaust, and trying to pin the blame on Palestinians through al-Hussaini.

There is NOT another way to read such a blunt statement, and no, there is no walking it back.

PJMcK

(21,916 posts)
5. He's the greatest threat
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:43 AM
Oct 2015

Because of the awesome military might of Israel, Prime Minister Netanyahu has an over-whelming power. With his hawkish positions, there is no chance for peace between the Palestinians and Israel. He wants war and his exaggerations and unwillingness to negotiate make him the greatest threat to the Mideast region.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
14. Well, frankly, Netanbooboo is looking for a living entity
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:31 PM
Oct 2015

to vilify, WRT the Holocuast, that fits right in with modern Israeli hatred, and justification thusly, against the Palestinian people.

Perhaps Bibi the lying asshole, and his supporters on DU, will go even further and pin the Inqusition, Roman expulsion of Jews and destruction of the second temple on the Palestinians as well.

If Netanbooboo, and his fawning supporters, is going to drink from the river of stupid he/they probably will use a bucket instead of a tea spoon.

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