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R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:24 AM Mar 2013

Obama compares Israeli occupation to racial discrimination in U.S.

http://972mag.com/obama-compares-israeli-occupation-to-racial-discrimination-in-u-s/68027/

Everyone was wondering just how much tough love the president was going to show his friend, Israel, during his Jerusalem speech. And indeed, there were a few moments. Condemning settlement violence was a first, for example. And although his criticizing the settlements and the occupation on the whole was crystal clear, it didn’t really pack any serious punch beyond that.

What did, though, was a comment he made in front of occupied Palestinians:

Those of us in the United States understand that change takes time, but change is possible. There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else’s daughters.


Powerful words. Maybe even a watershed moment. An African-American president comes to Ramallah and invokes the civil rights movement in the U.S. Without saying it specifically, he compares the situation of Palestinians under 45 years of occupation to blacks who suffered from racial discrimination. And he uses his own daughters in the process, making it personal. Showing his understanding.
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Obama compares Israeli occupation to racial discrimination in U.S. (Original Post) R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 OP
I'm really proud of our President madokie Mar 2013 #1
Did you wish to expand on that? R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #2
If I had'a I would'a madokie Mar 2013 #4
What part of PBOs visit to the M.E. are you most proud of? R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #6
Only in the mind of 972maggers oberliner Mar 2013 #3
I can understand how the finer points and nuances of language R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #5
Oberliner is of "lesser intellect" King_David Mar 2013 #8
How about if we stick with the article, dave, instead of the endless R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #9
The article is a perfect example of what 972mag is all about oberliner Mar 2013 #13
LOL! R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #20
Wow oberliner Mar 2013 #21
I really don't care what you are drinking. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #22
If you want to have a serious conversation, please PM me oberliner Mar 2013 #24
Please, oberliner, "clog" is what you always do when 972mag is linked to in I/P. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #26
I suggested grouping them all in one post oberliner Mar 2013 #28
You've suggested having them banned from I/P. No? R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #31
Why do you keep calling me Dave when I have told you not to ? King_David Mar 2013 #33
Since when is dave is derogatory? Are you going to threaten violence against me? R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #37
QED King_David Mar 2013 #40
Who's Dave? Scootaloo Mar 2013 #35
There was these couple of bullies at my school that King_David Mar 2013 #36
It's strange that you would conflate the two. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #38
Awwww, threatening over the internet again? Scootaloo Mar 2013 #41
QED King_David Mar 2013 #42
seemed like a threat to me azurnoir Mar 2013 #53
Nope It's become immature. nt King_David Mar 2013 #54
well ya the comment was IMO but ummm azurnoir Mar 2013 #55
It's the only way to deal with bullies , King_David Mar 2013 #56
Exactly. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #57
It was brought up due to said poster not having anything of value to bring to R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #58
One of his points was that journalists did not pick up on those remarks oberliner Mar 2013 #18
Perhaps for the jaded. It seems to be a pretty astute observation. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #25
The jaded? oberliner Mar 2013 #29
I'm wondering what opportunities were closed to Obama's daughters.... shira Mar 2013 #11
Obama's own parent's marriage was illegal in several states when he was born Fumesucker Mar 2013 #14
That was then & this is now with Obama's young daughters. n/t shira Mar 2013 #15
So you think everyone gets an even break in the USA these days? Fumesucker Mar 2013 #16
"That was then & this is now". R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #27
972 changed the meaning of the quote Mosby Mar 2013 #30
There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else’s daughters. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #32
You may have missed the "finer points" and "nuance" of that statment oberliner Mar 2013 #19
972 stripped away the context of the quote by omitting the prior sentence Mosby Mar 2013 #23
omitted the first sentence why? n/t azurnoir Mar 2013 #43
obviously to make it appear that President Obama Mosby Mar 2013 #45
oh I get it no matter how much it is spun azurnoir Mar 2013 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #46
apparently in the mind of the DailyMail too azurnoir Mar 2013 #39
Wow oberliner Mar 2013 #44
Well, it really just gets back to this. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #48
I think of more like trying to convince some that green is indeed orange azurnoir Mar 2013 #50
well someone want 'spmebody' to see other than what's quite plainly meant azurnoir Mar 2013 #49
Perhaps there needs to be a two for? R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #51
lol the whole thing sort of reminds me of this azurnoir Mar 2013 #52
Quite the stretch King_David Mar 2013 #7
Well, speaking of convention or conventional wisdom. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #10
So R. Daneel Olivaw has a higher intellect than myself and Oberliner? King_David Mar 2013 #12
Since you need a clarification... R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #17
Obama! You're confusing me! STAHP! Scootaloo Mar 2013 #34
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
6. What part of PBOs visit to the M.E. are you most proud of?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:51 AM
Mar 2013

Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)


On edit: PBO may have helped Bibi Netanyahu talk to the Turkish PM. Initiating peaceable relations is something to be proud of.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022551016
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
3. Only in the mind of 972maggers
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:30 AM
Mar 2013

Perfect example of how one can hear what one wants to hear if one tries really hard.

"Without saying it specifically..."

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
5. I can understand how the finer points and nuances of language
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:37 AM
Mar 2013

might be lost on those of lesser intellect, but that is why it is left up to the journalists to glean what is said behind what is said.


 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
9. How about if we stick with the article, dave, instead of the endless
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:14 AM
Mar 2013

distraction after distraction?


Now we have to see, after he leaves, what Obama will do with this recognition. Just because he may believe Palestinians are discriminated against, doesn’t mean he’s going to do anything about it. Or can do anything about it. Will he and new Secretary of State John Kerry begin a good cop-bad cop routine? Push for new “talks”? Another “process”?


On edit: There are a reasons why we have a fourth estate, and that is to inform us sometimes of the truths of the world that are not apparent at first. Whether it is an in injustice, good news overlooked or a general public interest story; we all can miss things from time to time, and it is up to the media to point that out.

We can all accept that we need illumination at times.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
13. The article is a perfect example of what 972mag is all about
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:23 PM
Mar 2013

Of course Obama said none of the things that the article imagines he did. But that doesn't stop the 972mag machine from spinning fantasy-land nonsense. It really is a great example of how, if you start with a particular lens, you can make everything you see or hear fit that framework.

Make sense, Danny?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
20. LOL!
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:43 PM
Mar 2013

Tell me that the next time Paul Krugman, Robert Reich or any other journalist for that matter writes anything related to the economy...or anything else and has to point out things that are denied by the establishment or just to put things in perspective.

It is a journalists job to cut through the bullshit in order to explain and educate.

I guess that I hit close to home with my original comment.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. If you want to have a serious conversation, please PM me
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:00 PM
Mar 2013

I would be happy to exchange ideas with you and not clog up the forum.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
26. Please, oberliner, "clog" is what you always do when 972mag is linked to in I/P.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:04 PM
Mar 2013

If you really, really want me to point that out for all of I/P and DU just ask me to.

I'll link to each and every one of your empty posts, and then you can get back to me about serious conversations.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
33. Why do you keep calling me Dave when I have told you not to ?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:02 PM
Mar 2013

At school I kept telling this bully not to call me faggot ... He never stopped so I had to thump him.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
37. Since when is dave is derogatory? Are you going to threaten violence against me?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:43 PM
Mar 2013

Now what I find truly derogatory is calling others anti-Semites in caged language. Now that is a true art of a bully.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
35. Who's Dave?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:35 PM
Mar 2013

You know you're addressing a thorny devil, right? Moloch horridus?



All hail the lizard king.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
36. There was these couple of bullies at my school that
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:41 PM
Mar 2013

That I also asked not to call me faggot , and they wouldn't stop , relentlessly until I thumped them both.. Then they stopped.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
38. It's strange that you would conflate the two.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:46 PM
Mar 2013

One is a name while the other is a nasty epithet that I don't even like to hear.

Now back to bullies. How many bullies wrongly accuse others of being anti-Semites just to shut down dialog?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
55. well ya the comment was IMO but ummm
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:50 PM
Mar 2013

you do not wish to expound it seems on why it said in the first place, that's okay

King_David

(14,851 posts)
56. It's the only way to deal with bullies ,
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:55 PM
Mar 2013

To confront them.

Count how many times I have told them not to call me that , but 3 of them persist .

I remember you telling someone just once not to call you "Az" and I never saw anyone call you "Az" ever again....

( anyway the whole thing is silly and immature and I'm ceasing talking about this irrelevant immature unimportant banter)

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
57. Exactly.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:51 PM
Mar 2013

How many times have you insinuated somebody in I/P is an anti-Semite?

It's the only way to deal with bullies, to confront them.



 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
58. It was brought up due to said poster not having anything of value to bring to
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:04 AM
Mar 2013

the thread. Instead said poster has to play the bully/victim card to distract from the dialog. The sad thing is that there is no bullying going on, but as to self victimization...?
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
18. One of his points was that journalists did not pick up on those remarks
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:42 PM
Mar 2013

"That was his moment. A moment that unfortunately doesn’t seem to be taken seriously by either local or international media."

Neither the local nor the international media picked up on the "nuance" that the 972magger did.

Cause for introspection perhaps?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
25. Perhaps for the jaded. It seems to be a pretty astute observation.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:01 PM
Mar 2013

Again, why some miss it entirely or wish to delegitimize it is not so much of a mystery when 972 is posted in I/P.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
29. The jaded?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:16 PM
Mar 2013

If I thought a comment meant something significant and no other journalist anywhere felt the same way, I might wonder if I was seeing something that was not there.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
14. Obama's own parent's marriage was illegal in several states when he was born
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:08 PM
Mar 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws

Anti-miscegenation laws, also known as miscegenation laws, were laws that enforced racial segregation at the level of marriage and intimate relationships by criminalizing interracial marriage and sometimes also sex between members of different races. Such laws were first introduced in North America from the late seventeenth century onwards by several of the Thirteen Colonies, and subsequently by many US states and US territories and remained in force in many US states until 1967. After the Second World War, an increasing number of states repealed their anti-miscegenation laws. In 1967, in Loving v. Virginia, the remaining anti-miscegenation laws were held to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
16. So you think everyone gets an even break in the USA these days?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:15 PM
Mar 2013

The playing field really is level?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
27. "That was then & this is now".
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:09 PM
Mar 2013

In America, yes, but not always.

In other parts of the world, like Israel, not always at all.

Those of us in the United States understand that change takes time, but change is possible. There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else’s daughters.


Did you want to call the White House and demand a retraction?

Mosby

(16,299 posts)
30. 972 changed the meaning of the quote
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:24 PM
Mar 2013

His comment referenced Israelis and Palestinians, I take iit to mean that change can often take a long time but it's worth it.

You can read the unabridged quote in post #23.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
32. There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else’s daughters.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:39 PM
Mar 2013

What do you believe that he is talking about there?

It wasn't "There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else’s sons."

He's talking segregation. Jim Crow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2296779/Israel-Obama-cites-racially-divided-past-US-urges-Palestinian-leader-Abbas-return-peace-talks.html

He used his daughters in that instance as well, bringing them up in reference to America's previous racial divide.


'Whenever I meet these young people, whether they're Israeli or Palestinian, I think of my young daughters,' he said during a joint press conference with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

'Those of us in the United States understand that change takes time, but change is possible. There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else's daughters.'


Nice try.

Mosby

(16,299 posts)
23. 972 stripped away the context of the quote by omitting the prior sentence
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:57 PM
Mar 2013
He used his daughters in that instance as well, bringing them up in reference to America's previous racial divide.

'Whenever I meet these young people, whether they're Israeli or Palestinian, I think of my young daughters,' he said during a joint press conference with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

'Those of us in the United States understand that change takes time, but change is possible. There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else's daughters.'




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2296779/Israel-Obama-cites-racially-divided-past-US-urges-Palestinian-leader-Abbas-return-peace-talks.html

Mosby

(16,299 posts)
45. obviously to make it appear that President Obama
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:20 PM
Mar 2013

Is comparing the occupation to historic racism in the US.

This preceding sentence:

'Whenever I meet these young people, whether they're Israeli or Palestinian, I think of my young daughters,' he said during a joint press conference with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

This sentence and the next clearly shows that he was talking about how structural changes can take a long time and was using the civil rights mvmt as an example. If he was comparing the occupation to the historic racism in the US why would he say "whether they're Israeli or Palestinian"?

Get it?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
47. oh I get it no matter how much it is spun
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:22 PM
Mar 2013

parsed analyzed or what ever to mean something other than what it quite obviously did

Response to azurnoir (Reply #43)

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
39. apparently in the mind of the DailyMail too
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:49 PM
Mar 2013

maybe it's a mass hallucination

He used his daughters in that instance as well, bringing them up in reference to America's previous racial divide.

'Whenever I meet these young people, whether they're Israeli or Palestinian, I think of my young daughters,' he said during a joint press conference with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

'Those of us in the United States understand that change takes time, but change is possible. There was a time when my daughters did not have the same opportunities as somebody else's daughters.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2296779/Israel-Obama-cites-racially-divided-past-US-urges-Palestinian-leader-Abbas-return-peace-talks.html#ixzz2OIsvY1jA
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
44. Wow
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:18 PM
Mar 2013

You really just see what you want to see.

Your Daily Mail article actually just prints what Obama says - instead of imagining things like the 972mag article does.

And you apparently.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
49. well someone want 'spmebody' to see other than what's quite plainly meant
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:24 PM
Mar 2013

+972 had it spot on and I do understand why that very obvious comparison makes so many here so very very uncomfortable

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
51. Perhaps there needs to be a two for?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:28 PM
Mar 2013

A petition for the daily mail and 972 to be banned? I'm sure the less diverse viewpoint will make some happy. No?

King_David

(14,851 posts)
12. So R. Daneel Olivaw has a higher intellect than myself and Oberliner?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:21 PM
Mar 2013

Quite the self supremist attitude.

What do Oberliner and Myself have in common that you think we both have a 'lesser intellect' ?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
17. Since you need a clarification...
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:34 PM
Mar 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=36747

I can understand how the finer points and nuances of language might be lost on those of lesser intellect, but that is why it is left up to the journalists to glean what is said behind what is said.


...I have to point it out to you again?
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