Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumOfficial Palestinian Authority Allegation: Jews killed Christ…
-snip-
The message here is clear: the Jews were determined to kill Jesus Christ to the point of almost forcing the Roman Prefect of the Province of Judea at that time, Pontius Pilate, to crucify him, and fully participated in the execution while expressing to him various kinds of mockery and scorn.
The problem with this description of the Crucifixion, appearing in a Christian Education textbook issued by the Palestinian Authority (PA) for grade 2 students and used in UNRWA schools in the West Bank and Gaza, is its falsity. A quick look at Luke's Chapter 23 immediately reveals that the word "Jews" is absent there and, instead, one finds "the chief priests, the rulers and the people" (Verse 13) as well as "these men" and "the chief priests" (Verse 23). In other words, this is a clear case of misquotation of the New Testament, with grave implications in terms of propagating hatred and enmity to the "other" on a religious basis. This abuse of the source material may serve as a good starting point for the discussion of the general attitude to Jews in Christian Education textbooks studied in UNRWA schools.
-snip-
The books focus on religious matters first and foremost and usually refrain from dealing with current events related to the conflict. Thus, Jews are not mentioned in the books in this context. However, the books do refer in detail to New Testament events, and, to a lesser extent - to Old Testament ones, where Jews are expected to be present. That constitutes a certain problem for the Christian Palestinian writers, because the Palestinian narrative does not generally recognize the continuous Jewish presence in the country in ancient times and stresses, instead, the presence of the "Arab" Canaanites there up to the 7th century Muslim conquest. The solution found for this dilemma: systematic omission in most cases (save for very few exceptions) of the ethno-religious features of the people mentioned in the context of Old Testament events.
-snip-
One gross example of such practice of erasure is the explanation given to the young students about ancient Jerusalem and the Temple. In both cases the Jews are completely detached from their ancient capital and religious center:
"Jerusalem [Urushalim]: A Palestinian city built by the Arab Canaanites (the Jebusites) and named 'Jebus' and later 'Ursalem' (Urushalim). It was later given many names such as 'City of Justice', 'the Holy City' and 'Noble Al-Quds'. But the prevailing name is Al-Quds."
http://israelbehindthenews.com/bin/content.cgi?ID=7233&q=1#.U5EjIMrMs3Y.twitter
What a shame.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)By all means, continue the occupation.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 6, 2014, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Expressed by the PA ?
In 2014 taboo even for Ukraine .
Golden Dawn is not a governing party.
Very extreme classic right wing Aryan Nation Neo Nazi , David Duke , Le Pen type statement by the PA.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)who were the Sanhedrin and what role did they play? I ask because last year there was a MIRT discussion of this very subject it involved a post made by a noob
That asked it was the Romans who actually committed the act of crucifixion
King_David
(14,851 posts)Calling Jews who live in the world in 2014 is pure and utter bigotry of the very worst kind.
The most classic AntiSemitism the world has to offer.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)no has said anything about Jews living in 2014 save you
King_David
(14,851 posts)There is no discussion possible .
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I have already stated the Romans carried out the crucifixion, so what's the problem?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)a question is not antisemitism and I have already stated the Romans carried out the act
King_David
(14,851 posts)As I said calling Jews Christ killers is AntiSemitism 101 there is no possible discussion about this.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)yet you persist in accusing me of antisemitism which is libelous at best
King_David
(14,851 posts)I repeat I have told you many times this is not up for debate.
Calling Jews Christ killers is classic AntiSemitism .
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)especially as I have stated the ones who actually drove the nails were Romans
sabbat hunter
(6,827 posts)supposedly turned Jesus over to the secular authorities (Pilate), who had no problem crucifiying people. In fact, Pilate was so bloody, even the roman emperors thought he was a bit too much, and they had NO problems with killings. So they recalled him back to Rome, because they thought his bloodthirst would cause more rebellions in Judea.
So the only role that the Sanhedrin MAY have had was to turn someone thought as a criminal by the civilian authorities over to the authorities.
But even that is dubious, as the Romans had spies everywhere, most likely would have been following Jesus from the moment he came in to Jerusalem, would not need any help in capturing him.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)The Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before a Jewish council following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to his dispensation by Pontius Pilate. It is an event reported by all four Canonical gospels of the New Testament, although John's Gospel does not explicitly mention a Sanhedrin trial in this context.[1]
Jesus is generally quiet, does not mount a defense, and rarely responds to the accusations, but is condemned by the Jewish authorities when he will not deny that he is the Son of God. The Jewish leaders then take Jesus to Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, and ask for the death sentence for claiming to be the King of the Jews.
The trial as depicted in the Gospel accounts is temporally placed informally on Thursday night and then again formally on Friday morning (see the article on Crucifixion of Jesus for a discussion on the exact date of Good Friday, which in recent years has been estimated as 33 AD by different groups of scientists).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin_trial_of_Jesus
still it was the Romans who committed the act
Mosby
(16,258 posts)A new low, even for you.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)nothing more nothing less
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)On Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:34 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
well here's what wiki says about it I'm not familiar with the new testament so I don't know
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=63756
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This poster is using the christian bible to insinuate that Jews killed Jesus. This is du not stormfront.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:46 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No, the poster is stating what happened in the Bible. Jesus was in trial by the Jewish leaders, sentenced to death by Rome.
Debate it if you disagree.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Jesus Christ! The NT lays out the story, and it most likely is a story, pretty clearly. The Jewish authorities and the Roman authorities were both involved in execution of this person, according to the story. Find something else to alert on.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter needs serious psychotherapy. The post explicitly says "it was the Romans who carried out the act" and unless Romans is some kind of code word for "Jews", the alert falls flat.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: STFU with the Jews killed Christ crap you antisemitic fuckhead.
You're fucking trolling now and you fucking know it too.
Go to Stromfron or Freeperville with that shit.
Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You!
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No, he's not. Read more carefully.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: As many times as i can remember of hearing the 'story' this is the only version i have ever heard of.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)or do they only have the courage to post that hateful garbage from behind a wall of anonymity?
King_David
(14,851 posts)But I think understands what's going on here.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Serves me right for getting on the sauce during Shabbat.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Scotch or Manishewitz?
Mosby
(16,258 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)sabbat hunter
(6,827 posts)which is what the wiki is talking about, or the truth?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the story as it goes always ends the same the Romans passed the death sentence and executed it themselves - actually there is very little mention of Jesus or about the life Jesus in writings from the time outside of the Bible, which is one problem now I will give say there is some question as to whether the story of Pilate giving the 'crowd' a choice between Jesus and Barabbas (I looked up Luke 23:13 the passage mentioned in the OP) is true because supposedly it was a tradition at Pesach to spare the life of a condemned prisoner and there is some question as to whether or not that was real
However if you have some knowledge of Christianity please share with us, it would be enlightening indeed
sabbat hunter
(6,827 posts)it is full of lies, halftruths.
I do not believe the story of Jesus being handed over to the Romans by the Sahedrin anymore than I believe that a man called Noah built an ark to save all the animals of earth. Nor do I believe that Adam and Eve lived in a garden of Eden, or that a group of Israelite slaves fled egypt thru the red sea in to freedom.
The bible is not telling a true story, but parables, ideas on how we should live our lives. This is true for both testaments.
We can back up with archaeology, a second temple, the macabees (but not the story on hanukah), Roman invasion of Judea, Herod, etc. We cannot however back up the Romans executing a man called jesus who was turned over to the Romans by a jewish tribunal court.
Pilate did however crucify a lot of people, so many that the Roman Emperor recalled him to Rome because he was so bloodthirsty. It is entirely possible that he executed someone called Jehuda (jesus) along with all the other people he executed. But he would have done it solely on his own, not having him handed over by a jewish court/priests.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Anti semitism or not, won't change Bibi's mind. The Palestinians will not
receive a viable state negotiating with Israeli leaders..not the current ones
anyway.
Clearly there are issues of anti semitism, overall, that is not being questioned, but this
OP is propaganda.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)many right wing sources.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Or they did call Jews Christ Killers but it doesn't really matter because of the occupation and because the Jews are strong and no longer weak sheep?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the Arabic originals are posted in jpg format that prevents copy and paste into any translator for verification
King_David
(14,851 posts)Nope ...
AntiSemitism seems to be acceptable nowadays and also for the last 2000 years too.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)And understand all the coded messages here.
In the Jury post there was only one honest member .
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)I'm blacklisted from that jury but was very insightful.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)You like contests, enjoy it.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
32. Actually I think a lot of us can read between the lines here
View profile
And understand all the coded messages here.
In the Jury post there was only one honest member .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113463731#post32
Response to Mosby (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I wonder sometimes if there ever was a Jesus. I do not think there was.
King_David
(14,851 posts)To be storey books.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'm glad we can agree on that at least. I used to hear that stupid stuff in church with my dad growing up and i asked my mom. She laughed at me and told me, ' you know that Santa Claus is not real?" " same thing here"
I was so glad she said that because i had been trying so hard to believe like in the movie Peter Pan when they had to save Tinkerbell. It was such a relief not to have to try anymore. I did try again later. No dice.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)I always wanted to live in a Bible.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Spellcheck Mr ...