should get their heads screwed on firmly, and NOT permit their relations with the national Presbyterian Church to be 'devastated.'

Last edited Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm looking forward to them dissociating themselves from the "King of Judea" and his West Bank "settler" followers.

"Does the Presbyterian Church (USA) target countries other than Israel for divestment?”

https://twitter.com/JeffreyGoldberg/status/480744106360971264

for him. He should be ashamed of himself.

...with no end in sight.

PCUSA isn't divesting from them.

Unlike China and Turkey, Israel has offered the Palestinians their own homeland many times.

The reason is due to bigotry and hatred, as their 'Zionism Unsettled' proves they don't just oppose the occupation/settlements, but are against Israel's very existence.

What other countries did they divest from.

It's because it's the Jewish state and anti Zionists think that should not be allowed
( in code form if course)

Keep the volume on your headphones up.

Before the occupation it was another reason .
And even then people deny Jews are a people, Nationalism is ok or encouraged but Jewish Nationalism or Zionism is racist.

People yearn for the days when Jews were weak. And want reverse it back to the good old days when Jews were weak.

The world just can't allow strong Jews , they fight back and that is just wrong.

So weak that every nation used to beat us kill us and murder us.

Nowadays that doesn't happen because we are strong .

And some people hate this about The Jews and they call themselves AntiZionists .

carry on your support for Israeli policy.

You and Scootaloo do...

weak Jews. That you would place blame on Jews is beyond repugnant.

We were weak in the 1930,s 1940's like lambs to the slaughter.

Never would have happened if we were strong like we are now = Israel .

We were a very weak people and became an extremely strong people in 1948.

Most of the world can't stomach this.

for their past fate and enable you to defend Israeli policy is disgusting.

Do you have family and or friends living in the OPT?

friends living in the OPT?

first, please do remove the crown from your self anointed head, and go back and read history.

Tell me why what I said was wrong ? And it had nothing to do with me in fact and I read plenty history .

one could get the idea you do not think very highly of Jews prior to 1948

What happened then would never happen now.

Since 1948.

Ask my grandparents .

Repugnant opinions you hold and history does not back you up in any way shape or form.

All political variables taken into account do not equate with the past fate of the Jews having
occurred because they were weak..amazing you selected that specific language. Pure bullshit.

It's fact .

Ask Pelser he will tell you.

I don't quite think that you or Scootaloo are covered in telling us what Jewish mainstream view is even if you guys believe yourselves to speak for the Jewish community.

and frame them as weak..it is sickening. Victims are not victims because they were weak.

And what in the hell does Scootaloo have to do with this, why do you keep inserting someone
who is not even in this thread? What are you trying to divert attention away from now?

There is no us, you speak for you..or are you an elected official somewhere speaking for
all Jews?

You guys do.

Speak for all of us..

When you speak for Jews as weak you are not only categorically and historically wrong..your
opinions are indicative of a repugnant political agenda. Victims are not to be blamed as weak.

I leave that to some people in this forum that not only consider themselves spokesman of the Jewish people ( I know it sounds just as absurd to me as anyone else) as well as calling Zionists White supremists and rooting for BDS.

And the rest of us who actually are proud Jews and Zionists ( like the majority of the tribe and people ) of course do not speak for anyone except ourselves.

I agree

person here that I have witnessed. Your posts are direct evidence of that, with your incessant
use of "we" and "us".

I speak for me, I suggest you do the same. When you try and re-write history, you'll get called out
on it.

You and I agree on nothing on the topic of what constitutes the meaning of weak, regarding Jews.

On edit: Post a link to support your claim I stated Zionists are White supremists, or do you think
your tactics are so slick no one will notice what you're attempting?

And never said it was .

And I keep telling you that I don't talk or speak for anyone but myself but I do see "we "and "us " because I am a member of the tribe and people of Israel are my people being a Jew and all ... That's why I'm involved and obsessed with and in all this .

Other people involved and obsessed with and in all this have different motivations.

why make vile insinuations about other DUers and then refuse to back them up?

About the BDS movement about Greta Berlin about some NGOs about the extremist right wingers in France and Europe about some in the Presbyterian church ... Not about DUrs....

Oh boy there's so many examples... Here's one...

http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-general-our-hands-are-on-the-trigger-to-destroy-israel/

to something irrelevant.

Good to know you're consistent with support for Israeli policy and the Iran meme too.

What is Israel policy ?
Are you talking about government policy ?
Well if your talking about settlement expansion policy --- well no I don't support that at all.

Cheers!

Do you feel Israel has expanded enough settlements? Or that they should never have done so to begin with?

The settlers should leave the West Bank, all of it?

I believe eventually Israel will withdraw from the West Bank probably unilaterally in the end.
I don't believe Israel will withdraw from Jerusalem it's capital city ever.

Israel's current government will do nothing on their own, they proved that with Kerry.

You want a link where Simone has compared the Jewish National project aka Zionism to white supremism for example?
I think I have linked to that ad nauseum.

Star Member King_David (7,117 posts)
74. I was talking about some DU posters in IP

About the BDS movement about Greta Berlin about some NGOs about the extremist right wingers in France and Europe about some in the Presbyterian church ... Not about DUrs....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113464551#post74

link it...people can then judge for themselves at that point.

your title line states unequivocally you were speaking of DUers who post on I/P skip on to compare them to Greta Berlin and EU rightwingers ect and then deny the whole thing - fascinating

I was talking about some DU posters in IP

View profile
About the BDS movement about Greta Berlin about some NGOs about the extremist right wingers in France and Europe about some in the Presbyterian church ... Not about DUrs....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=64645

You don't know who the other is, try and remember that.

When Viet Nam was being waged, the left complained and worked for it to end. The
left speaks out against many injustices, civil rights as well, to name two.

The United States is complicit in the occupation, you can't recognize that, too bad for you.

And certainly not for the Democratic Party of the USA .

You speak for yourself only.

Which history books did you read to bring you such a decrepit sense of facts? You're not entitled
to make up historical facts.

I know you tow the line of Israeli policy via the US policy...no worries.

Now your speaking for me too ?

Vietnam Nam ?

Please tell me my views in the French Revolution or The fall of the Soviet Union or the independence of Taiwan while your about it ... LOL

As I said you speak for yourself only...

Best we talk for ourselves and you should let me speak for myself too instead of ascribing opinions to me ... About Vietnam Of all things .

Thanks for that...

Cheers

who post in I/P when you edited your post after my reply..your post#60. About why you're legitimately involved
here and how you know..from some mysterious ability I presume, that you know other members ethnicity,
and imply there must be a less pure motive for posting here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113464551#post60

My reply is in #67: You edited your post after my reply. You see "we" and "us"? You use that language frequently.

You don't know who the other is, try and remember that.

When Viet Nam was being waged, the left complained and worked for it to end. The
left speaks out against many injustices, civil rights as well, to name two.

The United States is complicit in the occupation, you can't recognize that, too bad for you. ( end )

Then you proceeded to avoid my reasons why people, whoever they are, object to the occupation.
Your responses have been to tell me I don't speak for the left...blah blah blah. It's called historical
facts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113464551#post68

When I asked you to tell me that historically the left was not opposed to Viet Nam and did
in fact fight for civil rights..this was your answer..a non answer: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113464551#post72

All those non answers. You avoid and pretend you do not understand the language placed in front of you.

that sort of strength?

That Jews now know that Never again is a reality --- since 1948

never again?????

Jews are now protected .
The rest of the world never took care of us, don't care what happens either .

Cambodia and Rwanda or Darfur the world doesn't care either , they too busy demonizing and trying to dismantle the Jewish state ( and the mighty Jewish State is the reason that never again is a reality for the Jewish people)

the only recent enough genocide to be applicable here was Darfur and if memory serves it was the favorite talking point of some here when deflecting criticism of Israel 'now you admit that really do not care about dead does that also go for Armenians, Greek Cypriots, Tibetans .........

attention, they would rather concentrate on destroying Israel.

they don't care so we don't care on a universal scale

People because Israel is around.

Those other genocides have nothing to do with anything I am talking about and I'm not quite sure what you getting at there or what's your point?

Being a belligerent occupying power isn't being strong. Showering the Palestinians with apartheid isn't being strong.

Great despots of the world have practiced what Israel is practicing on the Palestinians now. It did not make them as strong as they were just criminal.

But please dream on.

PCUSA isn't divesting from them, or calling for the destruction of China despite Chinese attempts to obliterate a 1400 year old Tibetan culture and killing over 1 million...

All decent people know the reason PCUSA singles out Israel, and it has nothing to do with peace.

which are American companies doing business with IDF's occupation forces in the West Bank-is PCUSA invested in American companies doing business with the Chinese military's occupation forces in Tibet?

They are against the very existence of Israel & do not advocate the destruction of any other.

Their position is simply indefensible.

forces in Tibet? That's the only way your example is applicable

Keep up the good work.

you mean Incirlik American Airforce Base? Located in Turkey is that Cyprus or do you believe all of Turkey is illegally occupied by Turks? still really not applicable

Can you name one group?

I'm assuming you cannot, for obvious reasons.

so don't feel bad.......

instead of going back to the tired old Anti-Semitism accusations.

The Presbyterians have no desire to "dismantle" Israel. The do want to protest Israel's brutal and failed policies. Frankly, I wish they had gone further.

LOL

Events this winter reveal that these advocates are anything but Israel’s friends. The Israel Palestinian Mission Network (IPMN) and Presbyterian Peace Fellowship (PPF) have broadened their attacks on Israel with explicit challenges to Israel’s existence as the Jewish (Zionist) state it was created to be in 1947. These challenges are unambiguously rampant in the so-called “congregational study guide” created by IPMN called “Zionism Unsettled.” The materials in “Zionism Unsettled” argue that Zionism (a Jewish state) is inherently discriminatory, and that the very idea of a homeland for the Jewish people is illegitimate. The guide states that “The fundamental assumption of this study is that no exceptionalist claims can be justified in our interconnected, pluralistic world.” In other words, no nation can build its identity around religion, ethnicity or other category. The Irish, Armenians, Japanese or Czech’s may have a problem with the IPMN-PPF vision of a world with no nations rooted in religious or ethnic identity.

The BDS advocates go so far as to criticize Jewish prayer books around the world for including a prayer for the state of Israel. Of course, the same activists also want to eliminate from the new PCUSA hymnal the traditional category of hymns entitled “The Covenant with Israel.” They say the language embraces the oppression they claim Israel inflicts on others. Will the next step be to challenge “covenant with Israel” language in the Bible?

At the 2014 General Assembly we will see an onslaught of anti-Israel initiatives:

Boycotts against Israeli products

Divestment from three companies doing business with Israel and with the Palestinian Authority

Labeling of Israel an apartheid nation

In addition, there will be criticism of the new hymnal for using the phrase “God’s Covenant with Israel” to describe a few hymns, and attempts to deflect criticism of the outrageous study guide the IPMN is distributing through our denominational publishing house. Add all of these strategies together and it is 100% clear that the true agenda of IPMN, PPF, and the secular BDS movement is to undo what the world did in 1947 when the international community came together to recognize the newly created Israel as a Jewish homeland.

http://www.pfmep.org/addressing-the-issues/139-the-true-agenda-the-end-of-the-jewish-state-of-israel

the rest is an extremely hyperbolic tract from a competing group within the same denomination as PCUSA has not called for what they claim

*...noting that it targeted only American companies profiting from West Bank security systems, and successfully added amendments making the distinction clear. ( from BDS )

no matter how low key such as divesting from American companies doing business with Israel in the West Bank equated to destroying Israel by some here-giving at least the appearance that maintaining the occupation is integral to Israel's very existence

It's like boycotting Koch products, really really hard. But it's the only personal power I have as an individual. not that it's much. I also have the power of my voice, and I let family members and friends be aware of the purchases they are making are enriching those that are causing suffering of others.