Or maybe it's every item on the list.

25. No matter what you do will be wrong, especially if you have/don't have children.

I'm from the generation that found out "having it all" meant doing it all. And those were the few women who had a choice whether to work or stay home and raise the kids.

But yeah, that's a great list of lies, although it's far from complete.

No, honey that dress doesn't make your butt look big.


Lol ha h

"It's a man's world, so get used to it!"

If a man says something, it's probably true. Women's opinions don't matter as much as mens'.

You have to flatter men and play dumb, in order to feed the "male ego". Men have big egos and you should not compete with them or show them you're smart, or they won't LIKE YOU.

And if they don't like you, that is a terrible thing.

I decided I was not going to "play dumb" with any man. If he was threatened by my mind, I didn't want to be around him. So I dated extremely bright men I could have good conversations with. Nothing about sports or Star Trek.

Women are supposed to wait on men, because they are helpless. You have to be able to cook and clean for them.

I am having some trouble untangling some of the what is being said in modern feminism about empowerment and sex. I admit to not being as well-informed as I should be, so please forgive me if this question is awkward.

I guess I feel like the message is not consistent. On the one hand, women reserve the right to dress as they please but most often in discussion this refers to dressing as provocatively as possible, as a way of reclaiming our sexuality and fighting back against slut-shaming. And yet I often wonder why this is often an unwitting defense of the same style that men would prefer women wear so they most closely resemble pornified images? I personally don't feel beautiful shoving myself into a bra so my breasts are up to my collar bone, nor do I feel sexier in a miniskirt that barely covers my butt. I don't feel freer in five inch stilettos. All that I feel is that I look like how a man wants me to look, how the media has decided I should look. I'm not advocating mom jeans and grandma panties and birkenstocks, but it feels akin to women killing themselves in corsets because men preferred an hourglass shape. Is that what feminism is fighting for? Where are the positive images of women feeling beautiful in whatever they wear: the pictures, the brands, the style blogs?

I am also confused as to the messages being given to young women about inebriation and rape. No, I don't think any women is ever at fault for rape under any circumstance. And no, I don't feel any woman "deserves it" for being drunk. I don't think women should be afraid for her safety in any circumstance, and I am deeply sorry that this is so often the case. But I have seen the video that everyone is lauding on DU of the young man with the passed out girl on the couch who tucks her in and even paternally strokes her hair behind her ear. The message that is coming through is, "Women should be able to drink so much they pass out and men should take care of them." Again, as with the above instance, it is as though women are being told they can't (and shouldn't) handle themselves, they aren't strong and intelligent and in control, instead there is so much advocacy for the opposite because that is what liberation looks like (and because men can do it so why can't we?). Really? The height of girl power is getting hammered at the frat house and hoping some man puts a blanket over you and a rubberband in your hair so you don't puke in it?

This discomfort keeps rising because this very article made me feel that once again I was hearing a subtle message that a woman is not in control of herself, her thoughts, and her actions. It's up to men to control themselves. That men's disapproval is such a ruling force in her life. That sex work and multiple partners is the height of empowerment and is more staunchly defended at the expense of putting energy into encouraging women and girls to be smart, creative, fulfilled, loving people. It's still always playing on a patriarchal playing field rather than leaving it behind and playing where we want to play. Reactive rather than proactive.

So I'm confused. I wish women wouldn't feel the need to define themselves so much in terms of sexuality. But it does seem like every discussion I read defines a woman in terms of her body or sex. This list is a good example, as if the only issues a woman ever thinks about is her weight and sex. It is endemic in the blogosphere and has taken over the discussion completely. I wish I could read more about how women have learned a better way to live without the constraints or the societal framework of the patriarchy and have unique abilities and talents, such as how women run countries such as Iceland and how they create governments that are more efficient and less militaristic, about women scientists and farmers and writers and brain surgeons. About how women are the drivers in the third world in lifting up their families and entire communities. About how because I have a different reproductive system doesn't mean I ever have to feel or BE a victim and screw anyone who disapproves. I want to stand up for women who speak out, speak the truth to power, women with awesome ideas and solutions, and not just my right to be a slut. My sexuality does not define me. It just feels like it's defining modern feminism.

So I guess my question is, does anyone else feel this way or am I totally off-base? Thanks in advance.

Women don't define themselves by sex, society does. For example, see the "joke" offered by post #4 in this thread. If you are not beautiful (defined by fashion magazines) then you are less valued in society (if you are a women). Feminism does not tell women to wear 5 inch heels, society does. And women do because they want to be valued. It is sad that women feel compelled to torture themselves to please men, but don't blame feminism. When feminists first rebelled against the ridiculous leg shaving, clown makeup, and breast fetishizing bras, they got mocked as "bra burners." And they are still called "hairy-legged feminazis" by the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

I think you missed the point of that drunk girl video. It was not saying women should drink all they want and men should take care of them. It was that women who drink too much should be treated like men who drink too--let them sleep it off on couch. A man must not consider that an invitation to rape. If a man must "do something," do what the guy in that video did and just make her comfortable. In other words, treat women like human beings.

Last edited Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

I think you are confusing second wave with third wave feminism.

This entire article was standing about women in terms of their sexuality and body size and whining that men are mean about it. Reactive. The articles that feature women that get the most discussion on this site are the same thing. I understand the Steubenville rape trial brought a lot of discussion of victimhood to the forefront, but it was going on long before that.

And yes, I get what the video meant.

Last edited Thu Mar 28, 2013, 09:17 PM - Edit history (1)

No one is requiring you to dress in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable. However, there is already a social norm surrounding the idea of women dressing "modestly", and it dates back many, many centuries- and is rooted in property values. No one but your lord and master is supposed to see your body, so cover it up. There is a social norm in existence for more revealing clothing, but it's the one that labels you a no-value slut. The idea of wearing the more revealing clothing is to normalize it until it no longer carries that negative, so that no woman becomes a lesser creature for being a publicly sexual being. The mixed message comes from the idea of "if men like it, it must be bad", which is silly- the kind of men who are looking for control over women's sexuality are going to be happy with either option, so long as they get the control they want, but if you look around the world you'll find that the more patriarchal the society, the more modest the dress.

The message of "feel beautiful in whatever you wear" has been around in feminist circles for a long while, but it keeps getting buried under the opposing message of "...as long as you don't show too much cleavage and your skirt isn't too short and your heels aren't too high and not so much makeup, you look slutty". Wear what you want to wear, and let others do likewise, is my motto. This message has been brought to you by a woman who owns six pairs of jeans, two dozen t-shirts, one pair of sneakers, two pairs of boots and exactly one dress.

I get what you're saying about the video, but speaking on a personal level, I'd rather not see the messages about the dangers of excessive drinking and rape get mixed. I think teaching moderation in alcohol use instead of treating drinking as a wonderful, very grown-up thing to do is a way-overdue message and would probably be more effective than the abstinence/binge mess that we have now, but throw in "Women, don't go out and get so hammered that you pass out on the floor" and it leaves way too much fertile ground for victim blaming. Especially when too many people still think that way. On its face, the message that most people will take away from the video is that men shouldn't rape unconscious women, that other men really don't think it's OK, and that's a good thing. Let alcohol and its many hazards be a separate movement.

You don't define yourself by your sexuality? I do. Bisexuality, multiple partners, sex work, birth control, abortion, parenthood, marriage, divorce, rape- all issues that are not only make up who I am, but are front and center in the current culture wars. Possibly the reason you see sexuality as defining modern feminism is because it makes up so much of the current attacks on women. There's also a whole spectrum in between where you're at and where I'm at. You call this "the right to be a slut". I call it "everyone's sexual choices on an equal footing", and yes, I do feel that this is one of the things feminism should be fighting for. Equality to me really means equality, not just with our male counterparts but also among ourselves. So that my daughter who loves high heels and skimpy dresses doesn't get judged by either gender against a social norm of granny panties and Birkenstocks, or pantsuits, or burqas- and so that my daughter who prefers sweatpants doesn't, either.

I'm pretty content with fighting for your right to be a farmer, or a brain surgeon, or a scientist, or anything else you want to be. I'm pretty content with fighting for everyone else's right to choose their path, too. I personally find marriage to be the ultimate in patriarchal structure, but I don't mind when other women choose it. My question to you would be: why would you only be willing to fight for the rights of education and careers, but not the very basic right of sexuality? It does women no good IMO to tell them they own their minds but not their bodies.

I appreciate the opportunity to understand your point of view. Thank you.

After a totally incompetent man gets the job/promotion that you were a thousand times more qualified/totally deserved.

I made it gender neutral. If not true it should be. Be a model Citizen, Feminist, Butcher, Baker or Candlestick maker. What a world it might be if we all tried to be a model of atleast one thing.

http://www.vistaprint.com/posters.aspx

http://www.officedepot.com/a/promo/pages/110611_signs-banners/

http://www.zazzle.com/custom/posters

http://www.posterburner.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/make/poster-printing



costs vary, obviously.