Florida has armed citizen "justifible homicdes", as in loud music at gas stations, standing in line at pizza places, walking around developments, etc., etc. Fear that if you get into an argument with a stranger in Florida, he is going to feel threatened and shoot you. You like living like that? I don't and that is why I don't want to be around "good guys" with guns in Florida.

I saw a man abusing a child in the supermarket. Some people were arguing with him. I told them, call 911, and don't argue with him. He might pull out a gun and shoot YOU.

No, I live in fear of you armed citizens. I did NOT in NYC.

Florida's are also mostly gangs and drug dealers. The two murders and one self defense mentioned are very rare, which is why they were publicized. They were also highly politicized, which means you never get the truth in the media. As for the "walking through the neighborhood" I take it were weren't glued to Channel 20 with the rest of the state. If you had, you would know that it wasn't "walking though the neighborhood" To be perfectly honest, your fear is not that unfounded.
No, in NYC, you have to fear gangs and the police. Oh, and neighbors who ignore pleas for help while someone is getting stabbed to death.
Statistically, the police commit more crimes and kill more innocent people than CCW holders. Besides, gun ownership rate in Florida is about the same as New York's and France's
I'm guessing you won't be coming to Cheyenne Frontier Days?

a man brought a gun into the hospital and shot his wife in her bed. I talked to the staff the week later and they said they did not what do to with the other patients, or if he would go on a shooping spree. Oh, maybe if THEY were armed they could have stopped this? ROFL Ever hear of that one? Nope, it didn't make NATIONAL news. Another? A man shot a salesman in the back as he was LEAVING the man's property. Another threatened to shoot a meter reader and CHILDREN on bikes for riding on the street in front of his property. Law abiding gun owners standing their ground because they were threatened!!!!

These are all in the same county of Florida I live in. Have you heard of these?????? I do. It makes the LOCAL Florida news. Again, these were all in just one Florida county. You will NEVER hear from the NRA about these.

Why is that funny? It actually happens more often than criminal use. That is well known in criminology circles, and even noted in the latest CDC report that Obama ordered. In Belguim, three people were shot in a museum last week by an anti Semite with a pistol and a full auto AKM. Did it make it on DU? Anywhere in US media? How about the London kindergarten teacher who was cut down with a submachine gun while leaving her birthday party? Did Belgan or UK gun laws prevent either of those? No.
The latest rampage murder in Isla Vista, where three people were stabbed to death, three shot to death, and several shot and were run over made national news and has been politicized by the usual suspects. But that isn't the first mass murder in that town by an over privileged child of a Hollywood type. In 2001 one murdered 4 people. Remember seeing it on TV, or blogs? Me neither. Could it be that it was because killed all of them with a Saab instead of a Glock? I think so.

Seems like every neighborhood is tagged.

I know quite a few women who barely tolerate their gun loving men. I'm not against gun ownership, but I must admit I am very leery of gun owners in general. Most are OK, but many are total weirdos, especially those who like to carry.

Look it up.

30% is not a lot. And some of those former prosecutions weren't all justifiable.


Personally, I prefer Washington State's take on it. Here, we don't have castle doctrine, but it is a high bar to show someone defending their home wasn't justifiable. But. All such cases get reviewed by a grand jury, which is a critical advocacy position, when in the case of a justifiable homicide, only one side of the story is evident.

One person one gun right?

I mean, how else could you interpret a spike in gun sales so large manufacturers have cut back on assault weapons?

You guys really live in a fantasy land, don't you? We are living in a golden age of gun rights and you keep talking like the tide has turned. Amazing.

What the hell different does it make anyway?
Just more paranoid people

Or is it all those Dem politicians running in the 2014 election making gun control a front and center issue? A plethora of riches for controllers, right?

That means trying the best we can to keep guns away from people who would be prone to commit gun violence. It isn't an exact science. But I do think we can reduce it.

That is what the past 20 years tells us.

Yes, there are some common sense laws that would be very beneficial and most likely can be passed. But we have not had some watershed moment where all of sudden strict laws like AWBs or registration can be passed.

talking point! Don't bother to reply if that is what you are going to post!

Really?

Uncomfortable facts but you do have address them, don' t you think?

All crime has reduced and not because of more guns!
Why you only get information from other gunners beats me. You have a fetish that keeps you from objective news!

All we can show is more guns did not lead to more deaths. I get my info from the FBI - hard numbers you need to consider.

we use to get.
Why do you think that got blocked in Congress? Maybe because it won't back up your talking points!

Where do you think the CDC would get their data on gun violence from? What data would the CDC collect that the DOJ doesn't collect?

Make statements that I didn't make then dispute your own words. You don't need an adversary you are both you and your opponent.

Stop evading

stats. Stop describing my posts

Sounds reasonable.

" Stop describing my posts"

just like the DoJ does. What they are blocked from doing is lobbying and advocacy for gun control.

More! I'm sure you're bringing him around to your point of view! Really!

his is a one sided conversation. Everything he posts i've read here for a year and a half.

You're the one who doesn't appear to want to listen, as you're attempting to dictate what another person should post.

over what other people post

Yep, it's a good time for guns and gun peddlers. Pity the poor suckers who feel the need to buy handguns. But you keep on kidding yourselves and you think the rest of us live in "fantasy land"

Guns don't have rights and those who peddle them with their fearmongering propaganda have no concept of the public's right to be safe. Of course that's not an enumerated right, is it? Enjoy your celebration of the pursuit of gun happiness.

Most CC permits are bought by existing gun owners and I seriously doubt that many who get CCW permits are stupid enough to carry on a regular basis. But you can fantasize about not being the only one in the room if it makes you feel better.

I have a CCW permit I keep out of principle but I have no need for self defense weapons at home or in public.

Nothing wrong with having a permit, just in case. I'm sure most other permit holders do the same.

Some people need to carry. There was a short time in my live when I had to carry. It is all about choice.

I always try to remember that those choices are mine, and mine only. It doesn't mean they are right or wrong, they are what they are and I neither encourage, nor discourage others to make similar choices. I only encourage them to think very carefully about their options and weigh them against potential consequences.

But I certainly don't carry all the time. It's hugely inconvenient.

I carry when I feel appropriate. Such as moonlight runs on a forest trail. Deep hikes into the woods, etc. I rarely carry in the city.
(And I never open carry.)

the whole 'for self-defense' meme is a lie perpetrated by the death merchants and their followers.

millions of them.

It was proven in court beyond any doubt that it was self defense. Hard to beat two eye witnesses and forensics.

and should be treated as such.

That's why schools have sex education classes and cops have breathalyzers.

I can agree to that.

Children should not be sheltered from the assholery of adults.
My school had a rifle range, an armory, an archery club and a fencing team. I know of no negative incidents or injuries.

I know what kills teens in my town and it is not guns.

Your town may not have kids being killed by guns, but the fact is that kids are killed every day by guns all over America.

with a car, but by a gun? Your sentence implies that guns are a take on the movie Christine. Not very rational isn't it?
Read the stories about the guy in California. They are written the same way, stabbed with a knife others shot by a gun? Besides being incorrect word usage, it is also propaganda. Things like substituting "following" for "stalking" to get a stronger emotional response from the intended audience. Of course, the military "neutralizing the target" instead of "kill" lessens he emotional impact.
In the 2001 mass murder in Isla Vista, did David Attias murder four people, or did his car? I have yet to read an article that says they were killed by the car, the focus was on the driver. When it comes to shootings, the focus is on the weapon, and only the weapon, instead of the operator. Doesn't seem logical does it?
As Jonathan Turley put it:

and fireworks and electrical outlets.

watched a 16mm film about what if you find blasting caps. That has what to do with propaganda?

They put you in a machine that holds a car in the air, and rolls it 360 degrees. So you can feel how the belt restrains you.

More effective than a fine.

I wasn't aware of that one. I'm a big believer in "Scared Straight" programs.

I guess not. Can adults opt out too? EVERYONE in the USA must know how to handle a gun????

Eddie Eagle is the NRA's "don't touch it, it's not a toy." Of course, as every creative writer will tell you, showing is better than telling. Besides, do kids always believe everything you tell them. When I was a kid, none of our guns were loaded in the house (we never locked the doors at night either, nice thing about Wyoming) except for one, my brother's off duty revolver (he unloaded his duty .357 when he got home.) That meant my mom and sister in law mandated a new gun safety demonstration for his four year old step daughter's benefit (I was eight, I already had my own gun). No, he didn't use the small .38, he used the more powerful revolver. It amounted to, "hear how loud it is? See what it did to that carton of milk? Don't touch it."

Now if we are talking about a school rifle club or shooting team, yeah then you have more in-depth class, which would be opt in.

Instruction on gun safety for kids is not about learning how to shoot a gun. It is about what a child should do when he/she encounters one. Like do not touch it and distance yourself from it. Report it to law enforcement, keep smaller children from touching it etc..
Teaching kids to use guns is for parents to decide, not schools.

If parents want to, I think it is their right and it is also their responsibility and if the kid fucks up they should be held responsible.

If a 17 year old is still a kid (although child has been used), 17 year olds can enlist.
At the time the draft notice was sent, voting age was 21, could not drink in some states. But then if he were a DC resident, he could not vote at all regardless of his race.

What does it have to do with school programs on gun safety?

in my 7th grade health class. Long before then, I learned that shooting the heroine was murder.

Its a cultural thing. And also permitted, licensed and encouraged in my state.

We all eventually join the military. Every war since WW I ------ 5 during Viet-Nam 3 in the service right now

To a person we all win marksmanship competition in basic training because of our familiarity with expert shooting.

Its a violent world and someone needs to be willing and prepared to volunteer to defend it.

Say that again without the sarcasm. You just had a really good point.

I would absolutely show a student the interior of actual social mechanisms. Jails. Morgues. You bet.
These are human, social things. No need for sarcasm. That's a stand-up idea. I wouldn't call it 'assholery'.

I consider the promoting of routine indiscriminate carrying of firearms to be assholery. As opposed to carrying for genuine reasons, like really feeling unsafe because of prior threats or harassment.
I also consider leaving guns around kids to be assholery. Kids need to be taught how to deal with such situations.
No sarcasm intended.

Execute them all... it is the only way to save the women and children

DEATH TO THE DEATH MERCHANTS AND THEIR FOLLOWERS














if we had a ridicule smiley you would find it
:here:

that a DU person says nobody here says things like this. What utter crap.

" If you have a penis, you are a potential rapist"

"If you own a gun, you are a potential murderer"

"If you own a fork, you are a potential fat person"


Actually I made up the last one, but you can never tell.

I do in fact own many tactical assault forks, and I am fat.

Unbelievable.

...their fears onto those groups and believe they also live in fear.

What groups are we talking about?

I have a healthy level of fear, that helps me survive the environment I live in. Most of my fear stems from myself and my ability to deal with danger and situations at sea, where I'm often responsible for the lives of others.

I have no fear of guns, period, whether legally or illegally owned. I am wary, not fearful, of anyone carrying a gun, regardless of who that person is. I learned at an early age to respect firearms and understand their potential to kill.

ownership

a bit of a strawman. As far as guns saving lives, more accurate to say that people do save their lives and physical health with guns. Not even the CDC disputes that.

Read Heller -even Scalia says so.

Time to retire that strawman.

limits on firearms. Guns have been able to save some lives also, sometimes without even having to pull a trigger. Does that make the news, probably not. But a madman that kills three people with a knife, kills two by shooting them and also tries to kill people with his car. Of course that makes the news and only the gun deaths are highlighted.

I've been wanting a new home defense / range plinker.

I looked over the M&P COREs and G34, but I'm thinking this monster sized "duty" pistol from CZ may fit the bill.


Right now I have a p220 on the stand at night, but with a limit of 9 I'm feeling somewhat low on ammo. This 09 gives my 20 rounds on tap for family safety, and 20 rounds at the range for fun and games with the family.

I'm sure your family will feel even safer when you invest more dollars in your arsenal.