I was worried for a second there. If the NRA and their puppets in Congress are to believed, that gun is more important than the lives of those two children. /sarcasm

I mean about the gun?

Last edited Tue Oct 6, 2015, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

If so, then we do not see eye to eye.

I was disappointed, but not surprised, when Manchin-Toomey failed.

I share you disappointment over the failure of the Manchin-Toomey bill. Congress caved, like usual, as those "pro-life" Repubs once again chose death.

...that's the only aspect that matters.

I mean about the gun?

That would seem to be the reason you signed up to post here.

There are plenty of places I could go and speak in an echo chamber.

I came here hoping to find fellow liberals who are willing to work to balance rights vs responsibility.

I have found a few like that. I have also found hypocritical blowhards who are quite bloodthirsty and hate filled. I simply gope those are trolls who have not been found yet. Democrats I grew up around may not have always been perfect but they never looked so Republican.

..stated what particular solutions for rampaging gun violence you unequivocally advocate.

I'd be curious to hear them.

And would be happy to do so again. I am on my phone now but when I reach my computer will do so

at least today. I am always looking to improve.

-Enforce the laws we have. Recently a person was sentenced to two years for making straw purchases with the intent to move seven guns over states lines. A single straw purchase can be a ten year sentence. The remarkable thing was that any jail time was involved. We can pass 100k laws but if they do not get enforced they are only words on paper.

-Pass UBC. Should have happened long ago. The issues with enforcement have been hashed over but in reality there is no downside.

-Safe storage laws. Also an enforcement issue but if keeping your kids safe isn't incentive enough, maybe the threat of jail time may make a few more act responsibly. Also, as in the first point, they must be enforced, not waived away in misplaced sympathy after a tragedy.

-Mandatory reporting of stolen/lost firearms. Goes well with the above point. Criminal culpability may be considered for extreme negligence.

-- Get DV laws passed to remove guns from those who are a high risk of violence. The MN law (which helped campaign for) is a good example. It removes guns to protect potential victims but also has due process provisions to protect the accused.

-Fix carry laws. All carry must be shall issue (to avoid racist enforcement) but can include refusal by LE "for good cause". If the person is known to LE as a trouble maker, multiple DUIs misdemeanors etc., then they can be denied. If the person wishes, they can appeal and LE can put their evidence before a judge. If found insufficient or frivolous then LE pays legal costs.
--Also to get a PTC, class time including laws on legal self defense should be required. A practical shooting test comparable to local LE would also be required.
---While I personally do not object to open carry, it typically causes undo alarm. Allow concealed with no more that a citation for inadvertent exposure. This would also solve the issue of idiots who carry rifles everywhere.

-Fix SYG. While the theory that a person should have no civil liability for legitimate self defense is good, in practice the issue is murky. I do not have the legal expertise to suggest specific changes.

-I know I'm forgetting something obvious that I usually include, but getting any one of these passed will be a major effort in today's political climate.

These all address the gun side of the equation, which I look on as treating the fever of an ill person. It is a symptom, not the disease. That must be treated on a social level. I found this list a good start

1. Access to alcohol and drug treatment and rehab
2. Prison reform
3. Curbing the school-to-prison pipeline
4. Addressing structural racism and investing in young black men
5. Correcting income inequality
6. Addressing gender inequality and "macho" culture

On several gun boards. Somehow I still sleep at night.

IMO the benefits of trying for an AWB outweigh the costs. I'm negotiable on magazine limits.

I helped present the MN DV bill to other gun owners via talk at the range, chat boards, safety classes etc. We network at a personal level. But it we gained enough support the NRA caved and supported the bill.

There is much distrust out there. Put up good clean bills where we agree. It may take a few tries but they will pass. Then we can move onto more contentious proposals.

Until trust rebuilds, home run- regulate everything and ban others- won't go anywhere. Not my choice, simply honest reality.

...your world view.

But I guess "haunted" implies "introspection," so that rules out gun boards anyway.

Glad to have you getting good shut eye. You know, you can start leading with what's reasonable about your gun views, rather that always starting with the "wide (defensive) stance" so common -- de rigueur! -- among gungeon habitues...

the 1930s are calling. AFAIK, there were four mass shootings with automatic weapons this year. All of them were in Europe. The last one in the US I can find was 14 Feb 1929 in Chicago.

If I had the energy right now, I'd realize you were overdue for my ignore list.

You keep right on lovin' those guns of yours, though, hear?

annoying and it hurts your cause.

civil immunity isn't always connected to SYG. For example, Wyoming is duty to retreat but has civil immunity. California is SYG, but may not have it.

I spoke of SYG colloquially which is inaccurate.

Mandatory waiting period for first time buyers.

By allowing CDC to objectively study gun violence it could be determined if a waiting period would help lower deaths, suicides in particular.

Anecdotal evidence says yes. If data supports that I would support a waiting period with an exception process for a person known to be in danger.

I mean about the gun?

the victim. Also a reminder that this is my rifle, this is my gun, first one is for killing second is for fun, and how your misidentification invalidates the point of the OP incoming.

You must be pleased
I mean about the gun

to the story, gunners might stop unecessarily risking their kid's lives.

But if the child's death did not involve a gun you wouldn't even notice.

You are user #2 to ever be awarded one.

sarcasm at the expense of a dead child and his family who will suffer his loss for the rest of their lives.

This didn't just happen. Someone left a gun lying on the picnic table for anyone to grab. I guess I missed out on fun things like target practice in my youth. Perhaps that's one reason I'm still alive. I guess I'll never know, nor would I want to.

But the point of my post is that the gun will live on. And I'm sure they place some value on that, and would be "dead" set against anything which would have infringed upon their right to take their 11 & 12 year old sons to go shoot off guns.

And I'm also certain it won't stop the 11 year old from shooting again, but perhaps from now on he'll be a bit more careful. You see, guns can be dangerous in addition to being a fun way of spending a Saturday afternoon.

Long before all the facts are known it's the gun controller's who are always first to start the posts about the shootings, often hoping it is a white male as well.

Just watch how fast the posts go away when the shooter happens to be a minority or a liberal

And of course, no one, least of all the parents, should be charged. Or ever, ever, face any restrictions in their future gun ownership. Because, after all, they've suffered enough.

And anyone is doesn't get the sarcasm here . . . . well, nevermind.

My son is 11 and I still harp on the rules and quip at every little misstep no matter what it may be, and he's been shooting since he was 4.


Of course I'm also nervous when he takes the field during a football game or hit the trail on his dirtbike or ATV. Heck for that matter I've seen both my kids in some really bad bike crashes... And my wife harps on me every time we hit the lake or river in the kayaks.


Safety first, dying never. (well unintentional dying that is)