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joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 06:08 PM Jun 2014

Michael Vick: 'I revolutionized' game

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Michael Vick respects the fast, young quarterbacks in today's NFL, but he considers them Michael Vick impersonators.

"I was the guy who started it all," the New York Jets quarterback told ESPN.com. "I revolutionized the game. I changed the way it was played in the NFL."

Vick, who turns 34 on Thursday, believes he's a pioneer when it comes to mobile quarterbacks. He's the all-time leading rusher at the position, having produced 5,857 yards in his career.

Despite missing two full seasons in his prime while serving prison time for his involvement in a dogfighting ring, Vick said he has exceeded his personal goals.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/11113974/michael-vick-says-pioneered-role-mobile-quarterback

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Michael Vick: 'I revolutionized' game (Original Post) joeybee12 Jun 2014 OP
Which one? Football? KamaAina Jun 2014 #1
The comments on the story are actually good... joeybee12 Jun 2014 #2
Greatest draft prospect from a physical standpoint JonLP24 Jun 2014 #3
As long as they keep him away from any and all animals TBF Jun 2014 #4
The usual charges JonLP24 Jun 2014 #5
I could probably come up with a better word TBF Jun 2014 #6
I see what you mean JonLP24 Jun 2014 #7
That makes a lot of sense - TBF Jun 2014 #8
Especially since the kids would listen to him and take heed effectively JonLP24 Jun 2014 #9
 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
2. The comments on the story are actually good...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 06:26 PM
Jun 2014

Not the usual espn stupidity.

Michael Dick clearly has such a huge, undeserved ego that you know f-ing well he didn't change from going to prison.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
3. Greatest draft prospect from a physical standpoint
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:16 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:50 AM - Edit history (1)

A QB w/ a cannon arm, quick release, and could run as fast as receivers and corner-backs. 4.25 as fast as Randy Moss and still fastest ever for a QB. It fascinates me some of the personalities that also happen to possess never before seen talent. Before-Megatron, Moss had the hands, speed, height to be by far the greatest receiver ever if he had a Jerry Rice or Torry Holt mentality and work ethic.

Vick is surviving on talent alone, if he was more humble (stop w/ the MVP talk(2010), changing the game, arrogant talk) , didn't have financing and participating in a national dogfighting ring (sick world) in his background, he'd have more suitors. He went 3 full seasons not starting - 2 spent in prison unable to work out, practice, train w/ a team and came back by far a better passer than he ever was w/ Atlanta. (Mora's offense, pre-season injury after solid 1st full year, and arrogance hurt things).

I wouldn't say Vick revolutionized it, there was statistical discrimination at the QB position which started to go away prior and is pretty much nonexistent today. While he impacted defensive strategy & game plan he was simply a check-down man w/ a few design runs here or there, and play action at Atlanta. Coaches imagination w/ what they can do w/ a QB w/ such a ability is what revolutionized w/ the Pistol and such which when Vick came back in the NFL was able to be a better QB because of the changes. If you could turn every QB in the league today to 22 and put them in a draft he'd have a much harder time standing out. Cam Newton runs about 4.53, weighs as much as linebackers, cannon arm, makes good decisions. Kaepernick, RGIII, and Russell Wilson (who Patrick Peterson says is the toughest to defend since he isn't looking to run) are also fast QBs who throw the ball well. Manziel could be another.

Saban pointed out the question is can they survive and sustain playing that style? Vick hasn't been able to. It isn't because he isn't tough, he took a pounding - which was more of an o-line problem - in back-to-back years from the Cards. First game, he broke his ribs and still stayed in the game. 2nd game he took a vicious blind-slide hit from Rhodes which he didn't really have time to do anything about. Newton (size) & Wilson (style) probably can. Kaepernick has been able to thus far.

Vick, right now, is a QB that can move the team down the field who fumbles trying. Personally, I would've took him over every QB since Warner for my team. If Palmer can keep the INTs down then I wouldn't trade especially since he is much more likely to stay healthy but the Jets should definitely start him over Geno Smith. Problem w/ Vick is you need another good starting caliber QB to win but Smith is serviceable, very good if he can keep the ints down

On edit - I should probably revise my comments. Just read the headline overlooking the "wide-ranging" interview, the questions asked likely led to this direction and Vick has a strong case here. One thing I don't or didn't understand is Rex Ryan talking about an open competition while Vick has conceded the job to Geno Smith from the start. Who is being straightforward here? Post-conviction there actually isn't a whole lot I can say bad about him. Worst story I heard was he had a drink at the airport shortly after being signed by the Eagles which bothered me.. not at all. Great locker room guy from all accounts and appears to be supporting Geno Smith here.

TBF

(31,921 posts)
4. As long as they keep him away from any and all animals
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 08:28 AM
Jun 2014

I am ok with him playing football. Lord knows there are plenty of other thugs out on the field as well ...

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
5. The usual charges
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:31 AM
Jun 2014

aren't too different from when I was when in the Army. A lot of assaults, DUIs, domestic violence, disorderly conduct, occasional drug possession but mostly positive UAs. Don't really consider vast majority of professional athletes or military thugs but definitions probably vary depending on person. The people I consider thugs live in the neighborhood just north of me and that live and hang around the crack motels(Main Street)-- robbing, thieving, etc on a daily basis. 2 people were actually arrested in that neighborhood for a 50 car stolen import ring that made the news all-the-way to Boston. Heard a loud gunshot from my balcony I estimate about 500 yards away just last night.

Don't get me wrong there are thugs in both. Murder-suicide took place from our sister company, a few weapon charges -- one kept his gun in his room (never discovered) because he refused to put it in the arms room which was base policy for those who lived on base (could be different for on-post housing but don't think so, if you wanted to go hunting for instance, you'd check it out as you would like M-16 for the range). Part-time dealers, mostly ecstasy (Pierce County appeared to have a significant supply at-the-time) but I wouldn't consider them thugs. Now there was a former wrestler, heaviest set dude in our unit one time was underage drinking, wresting w/ a handful of MPs in his barracks room. A woman eventually took him down w/ an impressive move but he started spitting on the way to the squad car so they put one of those things over his head but he struck me more as an idiot than a thug. He eventually rose up the ranks while the unit initiating chapter proceedings on soldiers that had positive UAs for THC.

Obviously there are Pac-Man Jones and don't get Aldon Smith's deal. I burst out laughing over the bomb story. Now, if all the accusations against Aaron Hernadez are true.. he did a double murder, signed a massive extension and went on to have a successful season and killed another person. He is beyond thug and into homicidal sociopath territory.

TBF

(31,921 posts)
6. I could probably come up with a better word
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:15 AM
Jun 2014

but yes I was thinking of Aaron Hernandez, Ray Lewis etc. Just the point that there are other folks on the field that have been charged with crimes (sometimes convicted). You're correct about Hernandez - if they can prove up their case we are looking at one scary individual there.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
7. I see what you mean
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:46 PM
Jun 2014

Ray Lewis I never figured him to be one (and referring to my personal feelings on this not intending to be any way contrary in this post because I agree), probably had thug friends that he initially covered up for but never could figure what to make of that situation since the people (or person -- can't remember) he agreed to testify against (what thugs around here would consider a "snitch&quot beat the case. I didn't follow the trial or familiar w/ the evidence or really anything as to what happened but at the very worst showed loyalty and hung out w/ thugs. These days, I recently recall his "52 foundation" getting some kind of award or recognition, one of the things he is involved in is a workout program he leads w/ Baltimore police & ex-cons participating which was interesting.

W/ Vick, it is hard to really judge anyone famous or people you never meet personally -- is he the monster or someone who showed loyalty to the wrong the people that was very foolish & ignorant? He certainly was who I'd classify a thug and his overall behavior & attitude w/ the Falcons was consistent w/ common thug's behavior. One thing that did stick w/ me is Alge Crumpier (who came in the league same year was good friends) comments when he was initially charged says that he is loyal to a fault and it was to the wrong the people and that he is good hearted and that he is hurting right now. For someone who came across completely the wrong way through the media has been remarkably different ever since he choose to be straight-forward. He does outreach & advocates for stiffer penalties -- though him being charged and convicted alone saw states across the country strengthen their laws (I actually posted a link in post #4 hidden in text that details an undercover into the largest dogfighting (which involved more dogs than Vick's operation) ring at-the-time and the main bankroller was convicted and sentenced to less time (than Vick) after the increased penalties. Vick was sentenced by a judge that is loved by the local Virginia conservatives for handing down maxes -- he went beyond the 12-18 month federal sentencing guidelines and went 1-month short of the full max. I'm catching myself getting away from the point but I also want to mention this

Former player for my Cardinals LeShon Johnson who set a record (that I have no idea if since been broken) w/ the longest back-to-back touchdown runs from scrimmage (about a 75-yarder followed by a 56-yard score on the next possession in a game vs the Saints in '97). He was a Heisman trophy finalist (5th) at Northern Illinois several years before Michael "The Burner" Turner was one himself at the same school. Anyways, he was convicted of dog-fighting and didn't serve 1-day in prison but I'm unfamiliar how involved if he was if he was bankroller, "professional", "hobbyists", etc and penalties do vary based on that. Point is on that point animal cruelty laws, particularly dogfighting were and probably are weak. (especially in comparison to how many years they do give for other crimes)

Back to Vick -- I lean the more to the "learned from mistakes" view as he has behaved as well as you could expect w/ someone (obviously there are no angels) w/ the sort of conviction but not really interested (despite spending so much time giving my thoughts) on his redemption or if it's a show. I'm more interested in those currently engaged in dog-fighting and other forms of animal cruelty. Reformed thug (possibly still is at-heart or whatever) is I guess what I would categorize him. I still can't rationalize or even fathom the choice to bankroll dogfighting. You can't even say profit since he had options to much better investments as a multi-millionaire.

There was something else I wanted to add regarding the Lewis incident but didn't want to go off that tangent until I finished all that first is I do understand he agreed to testify as well as plead guilty to obstruction of justice in agreement the state drop the murder charge -- which lead to countless "Lewis is a murderer" slams. But if you happen to be in the wrong place, w/ the wrong people, at-the-wrong time and whether or not you have a murderous bone in your body everyone gets charged w/ murder. I remember in instance in Texas where the guy that did the deed got so many years or life while the getaway driver got the death penalty. Which is why I don't understand some of the addicts in my area. Burglaries happen all-the-time, someone in somebody's yard, somebody leaving their garage door open -- hell at-least 75% of the bikes I see people riding around weren't acquired legitimately -- is when they do it with accomplices. If someone happens to be there, wakes up, fights off the intruder(which they have every legal right to do) and the person you're with who you can't control decides to kill him. You're getting charged w/ murder too. THen again crime, especially theft never made sense to me because even if you do get away with it the odds will catch up to you(unless you work for Wall*Street, the Bush Administration, or otherwise exploit labor and the power and influence to sidestep the law). I especially would never go to prison over no temporary high but then again addiction isn't logical.

TBF

(31,921 posts)
8. That makes a lot of sense -
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:54 PM
Jun 2014

In this prison-for-profit country I can't be too judgmental. The dog-fighting is a sore spot for me (I do volunteer work in dog rescue), but Vick served his time and I see nothing to gain by taking away his right to work. As long as it's not in a dog kennel obviously. I know a lot of folks didn't want him on the field and see him as some sort of role model for their kids. I would argue that it's a good opportunity to show that someone can make a mistake and move on from it.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
9. Especially since the kids would listen to him and take heed effectively
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:30 PM
Jun 2014

more so than they would if Humane Society or any other organization doing outreach on their own.

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