Thanks for correcting the record. That makes it all better.

associated with the home and thus documented 796 deaths; (2) Barry Sweeney says he and a friend, playing in the area in 1975 when he was about ten years old, found about 20 skeletons under a 1.2 x 0.6 square meter concrete slab there; and (3) there is archival evidence of a sewage tank somewhere in that area, before public services were connected in 1937

The larger site had been the public work-house since 1840 or before, and it apparently remained a county institution funded by public monies even after it became the Home staffed by Bon Secours. It's certainly possible the area in question has been used as a burial ground, though the current state of knowledge is very limited

... Local historian Catherine Corless carried out extensive research on the children who died at the home between 1925 and 1961 ... Her work with the help of the Galway Births and Deaths Registry showed 796 children died during that time – but no burial records were available ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651766/We-need-dig-babies-graves-Ground-Penetrating-Radar-reveals-lies-beneath-Tuam-Home-site.html

... Garda sources said while it was widely reported all of the deceased children had been buried in the plot and some in a septic tank, none of that detail had been properly tested to date ...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/fitzgerald-seeks-garda-report-on-claims-over-tuam-babies-1.1823415

... A firm specialising in the use of Ground Penetrating Radar surveyed the site this morning ... The Department of Justice .. said, “no, it’s not us”, and the Gardai .. haven’t responded yet – but it turns out that it was the Mail .. who paid for this team ... A Garda Detective did visit the site of the septic tank and what is believed to the burial location ... While there he interviewed Frannie Hopkins and Barry Sweeney who in 1975 found scores of corpses in a disused septic tank, but all of this was understood .. to <be> very “unofficial” ...
ttp://philipboucher-hayes.com/2014/06/06/tuam-what-lies-beneath/

... historian Liam Logan .. has discovered that the home never once left the hands of the County Council. In 1951, 10 years before it shut, the sisters were begging the board for a grant, saying that they were too ashamed to show councils part of the building which desperately needed renovations, the children were sleeping in attics in terrible conditions and the building were considered a fire risk ... It seems that the home shut after money wrangles, the County Council were simply not prepared to spend the money to upgrade the building which they owned, especially if it was later to be handed into the hands of the nuns ... Other interesting facts to have emerged are that the Mother Superior was a member of the NSPCC and that the ratepayers repeatedly talked about the unacceptable cost of the ‘misfortunates’ ...
http://carolinefarrow.com/tag/barry-sweeney/

.. for traces of human remains. They have to be forensically examined to determine whether they are remains of babies who died in the last century or famine victims from the nineteenth century. Gardai told RTE that some bones discovered at the site related to famine deaths ... TST, an engineering firm, was this weekend carrying out a subsurface radar examination of the site at the former mother-and-baby home. But sources admitted the team will not .. determine if skeletons are at the location ... but .. will only be searching for 'anomalies' in the soil ...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/baby-deaths-now-gardai-probe-the-tuam-mass-grave-30337463.html

So the timeline doesn't quite make sense in that context, but who knows. Testing will reveal the truth though, on the age of those remains.

Withholding judgment until the investigation starts digging into that.

And either way, CERTAINLY had nothing to do with religion, religious beliefs, or religious institutions. They probably had an atheist there who was responsible for everything. Because true religious believers can never do anything wrong.

The women worked as slaves. They had to sign over their rights to their children to the Home. The children apparently were extremely malnourished with signs of abuse and neglect of medical conditions that could have been treated had the nuns cared.

That's a big "if." The Irish church, both here and in Ireland, has always taken a punitive stand toward women and children, whether they broke the rules or not.

by Bon Secours, the property was owned by the county and nominally funded by the county, though you are apparently correct that women there were required to work, if they could not otherwise pay the costs of the services provided to them there, and that their children were sent for adoption

So the full story appears to involve not merely the religious order but also local politics, the accrediting adoption agencies, and UK governments

even if they had been raped, that the county simply didn't not care and wrote them off once the nuns took over.

The whole thing is sordid from beginning to end: a church that kept women ignorant of the functions of their own bodies and self loathing about what little they did know, a culture that was incredibly prudish about sex, men who took advantage of such conditions, a government that didn't care what happened to these women, and a group that exploited them any way it could, using them as slave labor while it sold the children they bore.

What I want to know is where the money went since they evidently didn't lavish adequate food on either the women or their children.

which (according to a calculator I have linked down-thread) works out in current dollars to about $6.50 per person per day

Using current estimates that meals can be provided for $1.50 per person per meal, this would leave something like $2 per person per day for all other necessities such as bed linens and clothing, laundry, medical care, physical plant maintenance, &c

So perhaps the question -- Where did the money go? -- answers itself

that the usual apologists for Catholic mass murder have come out of the woodwork, wielding Google to make the world better for those children?

And/or perhaps the mothers worked. Unwed mothers especially were often considered criminals.

So any confusion about whether this was earlier a "workhouse" or a "children's home," might be explained this way.

for unwed mothers and their children, after which it remained a county institution but with daily operations handled by Bon Secours

So one might want to avoid jumping to such hasty conclusions as: there is a mass burial at the site (since none has been documented yet); remains at the site must necessarily date from the period between 1925 and 1961 (since there had been an institution there for many decades); or remains at the site reflect an attempt at a cover-up (since the numbers of deaths being reported come from official county records)

1) Even the reported deaths seem significant; and some early estimates put them higher than the normal morality rate. Pending more investigation.
2) Lack of proper burial for even a few seems bad to some, if that is what happened.
3) Some deaths might be unreported;
4) Question: if there are few bones in the septic tank (which at the time might have been active), can septic tanks dissolve young baby's bones?

Brendan O’Neill

... For proof of the maxim that ‘A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on’, look no further than the Tuam 800 dead babies story ... Corless discovered two things during her research: first, that between 1925 and 1961, the deaths of 796 children were registered by the nuns who ran the Tuam home; and secondly that in 1975 two boys in Tuam discovered an old septic tank on the grounds of the then-closed home, smashed through the concrete covering and saw skeletal remains inside ... On almost every level, the news reports in respectable media outlets around the world were plain wrong. Most importantly, the constantly repeated line about the bodies of 800 babies having been found was pure mythmaking. The bodies of 800 babies had not been found, in the septic tank or anywhere else. Rather, Corless had speculated in her research that the 796 children who died at the home had been buried in unmarked plots (common practice for illegitimate children in Ireland in the early to mid-twentieth century) and that some might have been put in the tank in which two boys in 1975 saw human remains. The septic tank or the grounds of the former home have not been excavated ... Also, the Irish Times spoke to one of the men who in 1975, when he was 10 years old, disturbed the former septic tank and saw skeletal remains, and he says now that ‘there was no way there were 800 skeletons down that hole. Nothing like that number.’ He says there were ‘about 20’. Maybe his memory is fuzzy, but so far he is the only eyewitness we know of to this alleged pit of 800 dead babies in a tank in Tuam ...

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-tuam-tank-another-myth-about-evil-ireland/15140

Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:24 AM - Edit history (1)

Three resigned after being implicated in child abuse cover-ups, from 2009 to 2011

Here's the verification from no doubt, an apologist's favorite news source, FOX news: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/23/pope-accepts-resignation-another-irish-bishop/

We should not make a Distinction Without a Difference; a common logical fallacy. One that guilty parties often make though, in attempts to escape association with related crimes. Here, we might see problems in "Ireland" in general.

If we want to make a distinction? One would expect Southern Ireland to be more reticent about exposing Catholic Bishops, and Catholic scandals, than (London) Derry.

Lots of people died, and died very young, up until well into the 20th century. In close quarters, such as an orphanage, the mortality rate must have been through the roof. What are now considered to be mild childhood illness were often deadly, and spread through the dormitories like wildfire. Small cuts could lead to life-threatening infections.

Which part of that don't you understand?

UN
FUCKING
BE LIE VABLE.

believeable

And that's what makes a tragic situation even worse - denial.

... as was its content: the same tropes vehemently vomited up by church officials desperately trying to make this situation go away without making any admission as to the church's culpability.

The fallacy of presentism? Really? The negligent homicide of many hundreds of children was morally acceptable fifty years ago? Herp. Derp.

All those clergy raping children because hey man, it was the seventies and everyone was doing it.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2011/01/the-popes-weaselly-excuses-for-church-child-abuse-in-the-70s/

Pedophilia wasn't considered an absolute evil because the men raping the children didn't consider it an absolute evil.

Fr. Guido Sarducci better watch out. There are priests out there far funnier than him.

I myself could better understand concern about overcrowding in a facility or inadequate medical care (say)

And I don't remember hearing about your concern about unmarked graves in the past. But if such matters really concern you, of course, you will find plenty of unmarked graves almost everywhere, to which you can direct your energies: perhaps it could become your life's work

There are plenty of unmarked mass graves "almost everywhere", so, really, there's no reason whatsoever to be upset over the negligent homicide of nearly 800 babies and children, and their subsequent "burial" in a disused septic tank.

Obviously, "overcrowding" and "inadequate medical care" are to blame for this. I mean, it's not like the church was running a slave-labor racket in which in which unwed mothers, as penance for their sins and in return for medical care their children obviously never received, were made to work without pay. It's not like the Church had anything to do with the social stigma attached to unwed motherhood in Ireland, or had any say whatsoever in how many mothers marched through their doors. It's not like the means of one's burial is in any way reflective of how well-regarded he or she was in life. I'm sure all of those babies were tossed into a fucking latrine because the Bon Secours loved them and cared for them so very much.

You know what? Fuck this shit. I didn't sign up to DU to talk to people who make excuses for child-murderers. You are no longer welcome on my internets.

"Everyone else is doing it" excuse to justify mass murder by the RCC.

I'm sure he could be even more sickening, though at the moment, I'm not sure how.

could be producing hallucinations or false memories

But, fortunately, the condition might be curable, even without expensive and inconvenient medical consultations. Try, for example, breathing slowly and deeply, so as not become overly excited when reading posts -- and meanwhile repeat to yourself quietly "Whenever a story is actually worth discussing it will be worthwhile try to get the facts right" and "Sometime people learn something by reading carefully for understanding"

cherry picking this case out out millions or billions is just anti catholic bigotry.

We don't know that the remains in the tank are connected to the absurdly high death rate at the home.

It's possible all ~800 children recorded as dying in the home are actually properly buried in unmarked plots. The remains in the tank could be from an earlier timeperiod.

The government will investigate. That means the site will be excavated. That will tell the truth.
Until then, we could be mixing issues.


The death rate in that home was horrific, and that's one issue, and they must own that. What is in the tank might be entirely unrelated.

evolved now that the person who initially investigated the death records has spoken up.

investigation is complete.

Something is terribly wrong with this picture, but what it is exactly and who is responsible remains unclear.

The rational thing is to wait until we know the facts before we pass judgement.

Just. Plain. Sickening.

is that from two rather bare facts--that there were 796 properly and legally recorded deaths of infants and children at the home over srveral decades, and that some kids later found some bones in a disused septic tank--a few posters have constructed a narrative in which the nuns murdred --oh, pardon me, committed "negligrnt homicide"-- 800 infants and children and tossed them into the latrine, and are now referring to anyone who questions their fantasy as "apologists."

You want "disgusting? " There's disgusting.

Being outraged at the conditions under which these unwed mothers lived and which undoubtedly led to challenges faced by their babies is FAR WORSE than the actual conditions and deaths.

Neither is the preference for sensation demonstrated in this thread.

... The current community-led research in Tuam has identified one surviving area ... of the Workhouse as .. the location of the .. tank in which ... remains .. were seen in the 1970s ... The concrete tank has been variously referred to as a septic tank or a water tank. Curiously Area 4 appears to be in a different townland to the Workhouse proper ...

Area 1 is shown on the early 20th century 25 inch map and it was within this area that the human burials were excavated in 2012. This area was built over in the 1970s although the 48 burials excavated in 2012 were not overly disturbed ...

Areas 2, 3, and 4 appear not to have been built on in the 1970s and it is hypothesized that they may contain burials ...

http://historicgraves.com/blog/miscellanea/where-look-burials-tuam-union-workhouse

Thursday, February 2, 2012
... The excavation of the probable famine era burials associated with the Tuam workhouse on the Atherny Road in Toberjarlath on the south eastern outskirts of Tuam is still progessing. Close to 45 burials have now been recorded and excavated in our small excavation area ...
http://historicgraves.com/blog/miscellanea/update-tuam-famine-burials


Probable Workhouse Famine Burials in Tuam
Wednesday, January 18, 2012
... The Workhouse was built in 1841 and opened in 1846 with accommodation for 800 paupers. Tuam was very badly affected by famine in 1822 and again in the 1840s. Laheen records that the Tuam Herald reported in February 1848 that ‘at least 2,000 unfortunates were waiting in front of the Workhouse at Dublin Road on a Monday hoping to gain admission’. Laheen also noted that the Poor Law Commissioners the body who supervised the Boards of Guardians of the Workhouses contacted the Tuam Board in 1847. They strongly disapproved when they discovered the existence of a burial ground within 90 feet of the fever sheds ... The Commissioners felt that a burial plot should be located outside the boundary walls ... A plot was found further east along the Upper Dublin Road in Carrowpeter townland in a field known locally as Dr Clarke’s field. A memorial was unveiled at the site of this burial ground in 1947 on the centenary of the great famine. A second famine burial ground was located along the Ballymote road to the north of Tuam. The local residents association erected a plaque in 2005 to the memory of those buried there. The extent of the devastation wreaked by the famine in Tuam can be gleaned by reference to an account in the Tuam Herald in 1852 in which the graveyard surrounding Temple Jarlath in the centre of the town was said to be ‘overcrowded with famine dead’ ...
http://historicgraves.com/blog/miscellanea/probable-workhouse-famine-burials-tuam

people crammed into it. It was used as a military barracks during the Civil War ...
http://archive.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=486038417&BlogId=2099497786

Executed
Six County Galway Men Suffered Death Penalty
Natives of Headford
Confined in Galway Jail until Tuesday
Connacht Tribune, Tuesday April 14, 1923

... Our Tuam correspondent writes: On Wednesday morning at about eight o'clock, six men were executed in Tuam military barracks. They were taken from Galway gaol on the evening before, after having been tried and found guilty of having arms in their possession when arrested by national troops about two months ago ... The six bodies enclosed in six coffins, were interred, in the grounds within the barracks ...
http://places.galwaylibrary.ie/history/chapter328.html

Those bastard children, nope, not worthy according to RCC dogma.

there seem to be several local monuments to "the Galway Martyrs"

But sadly, not unexpected AT ALL.

Currently, I know of at least two and possibly three different classes of burials on the property that once contained the Workhouse: there are Workhouse residents, probably including victims of the 1840 famines; there are the recorded civil war prisoners executed, and there are likely to be at least some Home residents after 1925

The small Site in question is one of several locations, on the property that once contained the Workhouse, where one might look for burials, This Site might, in fact, have been explicitly purchased by the Workhouse for burials; and it might also contain a septic tank from the Workhouse era that was abandoned in 1937

The Site reportedly contains a box under a 2' x 4' concrete slab, in which 40 years ago two boys saw about 20 skeletons. That report, so far as we know now, did not trigger any alarm at the time. A recent ground-penetrating radar survey apparently has detected what seems to be a subsurface 16' x 16' box structure, which might be a former septic tank; it is not immediately obvious whether this is consistent with reports about the 1975 discovery

Infant mortality rates in Ireland in the first part of the 20th century seem shocking by modern standards, but the statistical profile is quite irregular, often depending on the course of local epidemics. The mortality rates were often lower in rural than urban areas, presumably due to issues involving spread of contagions. Even in England in the early 20th century, there were towns with infant mortality rates in the range 100-200 per 1000. Improvements in public health produced steady and dramatic declines in infant mortality in Ireland after WWII

It seems quite a lot of children died at the Home between 1925 and 1961: on average a child died every two weeks. To understand these figures, we need more information: if, for example, the Home population included about 100 infants, and all deaths are infants, the mortality rate would have been 260/1000, which seems high by any standard; if the Home population included about 200 infants, and all deaths were infants, the mortality rate would have been 130/1000, which is not unknown for some places at some times during the era. And perhaps almost half of the deaths come from the WWII era, when there was a general spike in infant mortality in the UK: this may involve compound effects from (say) both food limitations due to rationing and increased crowding

The Home was owned and funded by County Galway, which supported it under contract to the amount of about 10 shillings per resident per year, which adjusted for inflation and converted to today's US dollars might represent about $6.50 per resident per day -- not a terribly generous allowance. It seems possible nowadays to feed people in such settings for somewhat over $1.50/meal, which would leave under $2/day to cover all other necessities, such as clothing and bed linens, laundry, medical care, physical plant maintenance, and so on. The death records used by Corless are from official public sources, so the information would have been available to the County government, had anyone been interested

I'm sure somehow it's the fault of atheists, right?

#115

#37

https://storify.com/Limerick1914/children-s-home-in-tuam-1920s-1960s

The Connacht Tribune 19 February 1927 indicates County Galway paid the Sisters of Bon Secours 28 pounds a year per resident



This currency conversion suggests that the 2800 pounds or so that County Galway paid the Sisters of Bon Secours in 1927 represents about $235K in current US dollars or (again in current dollars) perhaps $45 per person per week

Minister for Education supports calls for mother and baby homes inquiry
Mon, Jun 9, 2014, 15:55

... Mr Quinn told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland programme he felt it was important to show this generation of Irish people what those who came before them did to “young women who got into trouble, so to speak” ...

“Let’s find out what the facts are first before we set the terms of reference for any public inquiry,” he said. “There are historians who have published and spoken about this - they should be respected because these things have to be looked at in the context of their time” ...

“I have read much of the stuff over the weekend that is now in the public domain and it is quite different to what in fact the banner headlines were suggesting when this story first broke,” he said ...

He said the introduction of payments for unmarried mothers by former Labour leader and minister for social welfare Brendan Corish in the 1970s had been denounced as an “incitement to fornication” ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/some-reporting-on-tuam-story-mistaken-1.1825782

Sheila Langan
June 04,2014 04:00 AM

... A June 1, 1924 article from the Connacht Tribune speaks of the ‘dire conditions’ at the Glenamaddy Home, a former workhouse that began housing orphans and unwed mothers in 1921, under the supervision of the Bon Secours nuns ...

The writer praises the “wonderful, motherly nuns, who know every child by name” for the “marvels” they have achieved given the home’s poor conditions, which include gloomy rooms, walls “reek with damp” in winter and a total lack of any permanent bathing facilities. Blame for these conditions is placed upon local authorities for their failure to do anything beyond sending inspectors to take note of the issues ... Ultimately, the article commends a plan to transfer the Home’s occupants to the site of another former workhouse in Tuam ...

The Home’s future was in jeopardy as early as 1928, when the County Galway Homes and Home Assistance Committee considered terminating its contract with the Bon Secours nuns, believing “the rate of 10s a week for the maintenance of each child” to be “too high” ...

A report from a special council meeting about the Home’s closing assures that “The unsatisfactory conditions in the Home are due to unsuitable buildings, shortage of trained staff and other factors. There was no reflection intended on the work of any member of the staff” ...

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/The-Home-babies-in-the-news-A-timeline-of-neglect-in-plain-sight.html

And yet only one person will rec this sorry mess.

Last edited Wed Jun 18, 2014, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Although some press accounts incorrectly identify this as the location of the Bons Secours community, that community was actually located about a kilometer away from this property. The Home was the former Workhouse for County Galway. Quite a few persons died in the county during the nineteenth century famines, and in that era the population of the workhouse reached several thousand. Several dozen unmarked graves of famine victims were discovered in 2012 on the larger property, though not at the small site now in question

At some point, it was decided that the Workhouse burials were too close to the infirmaries, and the county bought additional adjacent property in a nearby township for burial purposes. It is plausible that this additional property constitutes the small Site currently under discussion, since it also lies in a different township, but immediately adjacent to the township boundaries. On the other hand, a later map indicates the Site in question contained a sewage tank. So it seems possible that the Workhouse installed a sewerage system near burials. In the late 1930s, after continuing complaints from neighbors about Home sewage problems, the Home connected to public utilities

During the civil war, the Workhouse was temporarily commandeered as a military barracks, and several rebels were executed and buried on the property shortly before the end of the rebellion

The property was converted to a mothers and children's home in the 1920s but remained a County institution, owned and funded by the County while it was in operation. The conversion seems to have resulted from deteriorating conditions at another mothers and children's Home that had also previously been a workhouse, the Glenamaddy home. Closure of the Glenamaddy home became possible with the transfer of population to the Tuam Home, which was administered for the County under a contract with the Bons Secours sisters

The Bons Secours sisters assert that when the Tuam Home was closed in 1961, they transferred all administration records back to the County. Sometime after the Home was closed, it was demolished and new housing was constructed on much of the former site

Corless obtained her death figures entirely from public records, so the local authorities were aware of the deaths at the Home. Curiously, there seem to be reported about five times as many deaths a year during WWII as in the remaining years of facility operation. She seems to have been unable to locate any burial records. It is, of course, plausible that many of those who died at the home were buried on the grounds there, though there are many other children's burial grounds in the county where some might have eventually been placed

Two persons say that as school-aged children in 1975 they found skeletal remains, of perhaps twenty people, in a box under a broken 2' x 4' concrete slab on the site. Corless believes this could represent burials of children from the Home in the decommissioned sewage tank. Perhaps that's so -- but it's not known at present to be the case

in Europe, with tuberculosis rife ..."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/04/claim-of-800-childrens-bodies-buried-at-irish-home-for-unwed-mothers

The decline of infant and maternal mortality represents one of the greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. From 1900 through 2000, infant mortality in the United States declined dramatically from estimated 10,000–15,000 deaths to 690 deaths per 100,000 births; similarly, maternal mortality declined from an estimated 600–900 deaths to under ten deaths per 100,000 births ...
http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof so/9780195150698.001.0001/acprof-9780195150698-chapter-06

... The infant mortality rate started a long slide from 165 per 1,000 in 1900 to 7 per 1,000 in 1997. The health of older children also improved. Diseases that had carried off thousands of children in 1900 were practically eliminated by 2000: diphtheria, and pertussis, measles ...
http://www.pbs.org/fmc/timeline/dmortality.htm


Irish urban and rural infant mortality rates 1930-1961

This works out to a rate of 300 to 500 per 1000 live births, far higher even than the 165 per 1000 recorded in 1900 for the whole of Ireland.

On the matter of money, you say that the Order received the equivalent of $45 per week per resident from the State. Now add in the charitable donations from other sources, the donations given by the families of these girls, the value of the work done by the inmates of this murder hole and then the income from the adoptions. Then recall that Catholic institutions were not subject to any tax in the Republic.

http://www.uwyo.edu/numimage/currency.htm

and takes the figure of ten shilling (that is, a half-pound) per client-week in 1932, one might get $59 in 2014 US dollars or about $8.40 per client-day: it's about the level of income expected for a person who works 8 hours a week at US minimum wage

The home apparently charged mothers a flat 100 pound fee for all costs including prenatal care, delivery, and post-natal care, which (in 1932 currency) represents about $11 800 in 2014 US dollars: current average US delivery charges range from about $10 600 for vaginal delivery without complications to about $23 900 for caeserian delivery with complications. Absent the ability to pay this, the standard seems to have been a year of unwaged work: it seems roughly comparable to fifty 40-hour weeks at current US minimum wage, which works out to $14 500

Whether or not Catholic institutions were taxed is off-topic, since the Tuam home was owned and funded by the county. The county inspected the home, and (under the terms of the county contract with the Bons Secours) county responsibilities included covering costs of medical care and medicines at the facility. The county was aware of the 100 pound or year-of-work arrangement; to understand by how much it affected the finances of the home, one needs to examine the contracts between county and the sisters, as well as records of council meetings Reports in both the 1930s and 1940s remark on some overcrowding and some inadequacy of facilities.

Mortality fluctuated. At one time in 1932 (see above link), there were 135 children in the home, and there were 24 deaths that year, suggesting perhaps a death rate of 18% -- a more definitive figure would require actual knowledge of the numbers of mothers and children passing through the home. Fifteen of the 24 deaths in 1932 were a result of measles; one of the measles cases also had tuberculosis and one had congenital syphilis. There is another death attributed solely to tuberculosis. Overall death rates in 1932 Ireland for children born outside marriage were 24% (according to the interactive graphic you can access from the link here), compared to the overall death rate for other children of about 7%.

The highest numbers of deaths are 50 in 1942 and 52 in 1947. According to the 1947 inspector's report, the home in 1942 was severely overcrowded, with 271 children and 61 mothers. The number of deaths in 1947 suggests perhaps a death rate of 19% -- a more definitive figure would require actual knowledge of the numbers of mothers and children passing through the home. Eighteen of the 52 deaths in 1947 were a result of measles; another four were the result of influenza; two more were attributed to congenital syphilis. Overall death rates in 1947 Ireland for children born outside marriage were 22% (according to the interactive graphic you can access from the link here), compared to the overall death rate for other children of about 6%

The 1947 inspection report indicates mortality rates of 34% in 1943, 25% per cent died in 1944, and 23% in 1945. It is not immediately clear how these figures were calculated: in particular, it is unclear whether the rates are based on average occupancy of the home or on the total number of children passing through the home. One should like to know whether, for example, how quickly healthy babies and children were relocated to ordinary family-type situations, because that matters for interpretation of results

I did not dispute your figure for the amount paid by the Free State to this hell hole per inmate. I pointed out that the income these failed carers derived from the women and children in their "care" was not limited to that payout and that religious institutions in Eire had large tax exemptions. I had forgotten that the families of these women had to fork out for the privilege of having their daughters put there.

So let's look at your figure for modern in patient care at a modern hospital that is fine.

Now compare the cost of perinatal care at during the 1930s and 1940s:
A doctors examination - about 5 shillings for a GP to 1 guinea (£1/1/-) for a consultant but most doctors did not charge charitable institutions (source my Grandfather who was a consultant in the UK at that time and my father who qualified in about 1940);

A midwife in attendance for a day - between 10/- and £1, assuming that none of the nuns had a midwifery qualification in which case the care would be free. (source for costs my grandmother who was a qualified nurse at that time and my father);

With a complex birth the midwife would be expected to do most procedures (turning a breech, forceps deliveries and entangled umbilical cord) but a doctor might be summoned to do an episiotomy (the preferred alternative to caesarian at the time) even though it often crippled the mother. Surgery would be performed at the nunnery but anesthesia would be minimal and aftercare would be at that so called home.

Therefore the maximum that would be charged to the Tuam nuns for pre-natal care, birth with surgical intervention and post-natal care would be about £20.

Now let's examine the income separate from the state money and the donations of £100. Families at the time would often send "pocket money" to their poor "fallen" children in excess of the donation, but this did not go direct to the mother, it was kept in trust by the Sisters. Then the mothers would be expected to work hours a day for the benefit of the Church who was being so generous in supporting them - you know like the Magdelene Laundries. Then there were the charitable collections made to support the poor girls. Lastly there was the infamous baby scoop style adoptions where none of the money went to the mother, it all went to the institution.

Given all of this and the minimal accounting that went on at the time the Tuam Home probably turned a profit of between £50 and £100 per annum per mother.

About survival rates. Nice try but we were talking percentages over a long period; the apparent small numbers of deaths of infants does not change the comparative percentages.

the former county workhouse, refurbished as a county mother and baby home, run under contract with the county. It was not a Bon Secours nunnery: there was a local Bon Secours religious community, but it was located approximately a kilometer away from the Tuam home. There is no reason to think that deliveries occurred at the Bon Secours nunnery: it would make no sense to transfer a woman from the home to the nunnery a kilometer away, and then to transfer her back with her baby after delivery

The death records do indicate some children delivered by Caesarian section

It is not really appropriate to compare doctor-consult fees for delivery in one's own family residence, where family provided food and linen, with the costs of the facility here. The Tuam home did hire nurses, for example. Overall Irish maternal mortality for 1925 -1930 period were in the range of 4-5%, comparable (say) to New Zealand. A common cause of mortality was puerperal sepsis, which results from inadequate attention to sterile conditions. At the Tuam home, Corless found a total of four death records for mothers from 1925-1961. Guessing crudely that 3200 women passed through the home, the low maternal mortality figures suggest a lot of scrubbing floors, boiling laundry, and sterilizing instruments -- and a natural guess would be that the mothers who were working off their debt did much of that. Since $6.50 per day in current dollars won't cover many personal expenses such as food, clothing, linens, and so, it is also a natural guess that mothers working off their debt also did much of the gardening work in season. It's not clear that any "profit" was realized from such activities, other than improving conditions for residents of the home

To understand the economics of the institution, one needs more information. Children not otherwise placed stayed in the home for an average of about 6 years. So the 1932 figure of 135 babies in the home with 24 mothers suggests very few mothers found 100 pounds to pay their way out: this probably indicates that the maternal population consisted of urban destitute. At the time, the condition of the urban destitute in Ireland was dreadful. Records indicate that at least one mother was a resident of an institution for the mentally disabled when she became pregnant; information on most of the mothers is unlikely to become available soon, since some of them, and quite a number of their children, are probably still alive

Liar, not even a liar for Jesus but a liar for the Catholic Church in Eire

They were the operators of this hell hole nominally under the control of the county because many hospitals and hospital like structures were nominally controlled by the local authority but actually run by religious or private "charities". In the Free state it was usually the an order associated with the Catholic Church. The reason for this was that the Church of Ireland (the incarnation of the Church of England in the Southern Ireland) was not welcome in the Free State and so the buildings were handed over to the Counties before or at the time of the formation of the Free State. The case of Tuam it was the charitable workhouse prior to being used by the Bon Secours order.

Hiring nurses, you don't give any figures for that partly because the nurses hired would have been nuns. Note that I did not say that no hiring was done, I assumed that Midwives were hired in.

I like it how you imply that the overall rate for maternal death in Eire was also the rate at Tuam - any evidence on that?

I did not say there were no children delivered by caesarian section only that the preferred procedure at the time was episiotomy. My assumption was that there were such sections which is why I gave the high end figure of £20 per birth.

I agree that to understand the economics of the situation you need more information, such as what work was undertaken by the mothers of new borns and what was paid to the order for those services - remember the Magdelene Laundries, working in the gardens was not any part of that. What was the price for a baby to adopt? How much money was raised from charitable giving?

Now to your figure of 135 babies and 24 mothers in 1932; do you realise how damning to your case those figure are?

Look at post natal infant deaths assume 25% (because I cannot be bothered to see how high it really was for that year) that means there were at least 160 live births. Stillbirths were not recorded as live births or natal mortality (nor were they named or given Christian burial*) so the number of confinements was probably in the region of 170.

Next twins at the time were about 1% - 1.4% of live births (modern figures for multiple births are a fraction higher because of assisted pregnancies). Working only with the live births that means that there were about 158 mothers.

Now maternal mortality. Using the lower national figure for the Free State that you provided 5 of those mothers died leaving 153 of which only 24 remained at this hell hole.

So, far from the "very few" mothers being able to pay the £100 less than 16% were unable to purchase their freedom.

Please be aware that I have not accounted for the number of children purchased by childless couples in the figures for live births.
[hr]
* According to much theology at the time unless an infant took a breath post partum it was never truly alive and so could not be christened or given Christian burial or even laid in consecrated ground; many such waifs were incinerated.

I cited statistics for maternal death rates of 4% - 5% in Ireland 1925-1930, and I noted this was comparable to rates in New Zealand at the time. New Zealand around 1930 examined its high maternal death rate, concluded the major cause was puerperal sepsis, and made an effort to educate medical personnel about the need for careful hygiene in deliveries, with the result that the maternal death rate plummeted. There is probably a comparable improvement in maternal death rates in much of the Western world in the first half of the twentieth century

Press reports indicate Catherine Corless' records search located four public records of deaths of mothers at the home. I do not know when the women died or of what causes. If you can find better information on the matter, feel free to provide it. In this thread is a link indicating that in 1932 there were 135 children in the home; from 1925-1931, there are 111 child death records, so by 1932 there may have been something like 246 births in the home, which (if one expected a maternal death rate of 4% - 5%) would suggest 10 - 12 maternal deaths. If maternal deaths are below the national average in the early years of the facility, a likely interpretation is that puerperal sepsis is uncommon, indicating better than average hygiene

but given the sickening record of the Bon Secours nuns it was probably nearer 8%.

None of that detracts from the figures extrapolated from your own numbers. Goodbye, apologist.

do not imply all 135 children present were born in 1931 or 1932: as I have stated before, children not otherwise placed typically remained in the home 5.5 - 7 years, depending on gender. So if mothers stay about a year, one expects something like 6 times as many children as mothers in the home, and the numbers here appear to confirm that expectation, since 6 x 24 = 144 is not far from 135.

Nor does one need to estimate the deaths that year, as one has records: there were 24 deaths of children, including 15 of which were due to a measles outbreak from January to March; at least two of the measles deaths were children over a year old; one measles fatality was 2.5 years old. One of the children, who died from causes other than measles, had a chronic throat ulceration which had lasted rather over a year: she is listed as 9.5 years old. If her age is correctly reported, then her presence in the home beyond the typical age at which one would have expected other arrangements (such as fostering out) may simply indicate the child was too sick to relocate

Here are the actual data:

Measles:
Doorhy Margaret 25/01/1932 8 months
McDonagh Mary 02/02/1932 1 year
Leonard Patrick 06/02/1932 9 months
Coyne Mary 07/02/1932 1 year
Walsh Mary Kate 09/02/1932 2 years
Burke Christina 11/02/1932 1 year
Jordan Mary Margaret 14/02/1932 1 1/2 years
Sullivan Annie 15/02/1932 8 months
McCann John Joseph 16/02/1932 8 months
Niland Margaret 26/02/1932 2 1/2 years
O'Boyle Joseph 13/03/1932 2 months
Galvin Bridget 14/03/1932 3 months

Tuberculosis:
McMullan Teresa 17/02/1932 1 year
Nash Peter 13/03/1932 1 year
Fitzmaurice Kate 23/06/1932 4 months
Madden Angela 01/08/1932 3 months

"Debility from birth"
Quinn Christina 22/03/1932 3 months
Birmingham Mary 09/05/1932 9 months

Convulsions
Mulkerrins unnamed 07/07/1932 5 days

Heart disease:
Hill Laurence 10/06/1932 11 months

Marasmus
Judge Patricia 07/05/1932 1 year

Suppurative rhinitis
Pender Brendan Patrick 18/06/1932 1 month

Syphilis:
Gavin George 26/02/1932 1 year

Ulceration of larynx:
Cloran Kathleen 27/03/1932 9 1/2 years

the vast majority of mothers were able to leave despite your claim to the contrary.

The recorded mortality figure - not necessarily the complete story - is 24 out of 135 deceased - close to 20% significantly higher than the death rate for the rest of the population of Eire. You have just proven again that this was a hell hole staffed by those proclaiming moral superiority. Goodbye

the figures we currently have don't suggest that the vast majority actually could

The mothers who we might expect to leave would be those who could pay the 100 pound fee in lieu of working a year: the fee, as I have pointed out, probably translates to sometime like $12 000 in current dollars. Mother from middle-class backgrounds, with supportive families, might have access to such cash reserves; mothers from poor backgrounds would certainly not. We are unlikely to obtain much information on the mothers for privacy reasons. If records still exist, we might be able to learn how many paid the 100 pound fee, as well as how many children were placed for adoption and how many were sent into the equivalent of foster care or sent to the so-called industrial schools

of stillborn children and unbaptized infants. Not being Catholic, not being an expert on Catholic or Irish history, and not being an expert on burial practices in Ireland, I can only make some general remarks here

Given the long Catholic tradition of regarding the unborn as having a soul, at least by the time of quickening or perhaps even upon conception, it seems unlikely that the Catholic church in Ireland ever taught that an infant who never took a breath post partum was never truly alive. Moreover, as early church teaching opposed cremation, and later church teaching, while allowing cremation, has continued to recognize that cremation in some cases can reflect an explicit repudiation of Christian doctrine, it also seems unlikely that the church would encourage cremation of the remains of stillborn or unbaptized children. Further, the church has long taught that anyone may perform a baptism in an "emergency." Finally there is, so far as I know, no church doctrine requiring burial in consecrated ground, or any teaching that there are permanent consequences for those laid in unconsecrated ground

Irish burial practices probably reflect a complicated combination of very old Irish folk practices, Christian influences, and Irish history. Cillini-type burial grounds appear at least by the early middle ages. Catholic-Protestant conflicts from the early modern era in Ireland appear to have limited prospects for public Catholic burial ceremonies until 1832, when Glasnevin Cemetery was established: in the prior century, it was still illegal in Ireland to perform Catholic funeral rites. Thus the habit of burying Irish Catholic dead in unmarked or barely marked graves on former church grounds may have arisen as a result of suppression of Catholic practice, and Cillini-type burials may have revived accordingly. Glasnevin Cemetery allowed burial of stillborns in consecrated ground; most children buried there are in unmarked graves. After Glasnevin opened, the Dublin hospitals seem to have regularly sent stillborn remains there for burial. The actual evolution of common social notions -- in the interaction of Irish folk tradition, Catholic practice, and political suppression of Catholic practice -- is probably an interesting topic, but it's not immediately clear how closely such notions reflect Catholic doctrine

"We need to find out more about what this period in our social history was really like and to consider the legacy it has left us as a people.

"Above all we need to enable those who were directly affected to receive recognition and appropriate support.

"We therefore welcome the government's intention that the Commission of Investigation will have the necessary legal authority to examine all aspects of life in the homes.

"The investigation should inquire into how these homes were funded and, crucially, how adoptions were organised, processed and followed up" ...

Tuam babies: Babies born out of wedlock treated as 'sub-species' says Enda Kenny
10 June 2014 Last updated at 17:41

Wednesday 11 June 2014 22.15

... A review of interment records for Tuam between 1922 and 1943 provides little evidence that deceased infants from the town's home were buried in the local cemetery ... A trawl of digitised records over a 21-year period in Tuam shows one infant - aged 21 months - was listed as being resident in the home at the time of death in the early 1930s. It is the only reference to a deceased person who lived in the home in the timeframe concerned ...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0611/623183-burial-records/

No need to sully Gish's name.

You actually went there.

I'll wait.

What a sight for sore eyes! How have you been?

Still trapped in one of the bloodiest of the red states, I'm afraid.

You have no idea how happy I am to see my old friends, it's like coming home.

but the nonsense remains.

Seeing the Hello Cthulhu in your signature brought back fond memories, too.

I have to deal with crap much worse than this irl but it still gets to me.

The letter on behalf of the Minister for Health of the day was issued to mother and baby homes who were seeking approval as maternity homes.

... It states the approval as a maternity home can be revoked “at any time” if the minister deemed such circumstances justified him taking such action ...

http://www.thejournal.ie/letter-tuam-mother-and-baby-home-1513403-Jun2014/

from a link at the Sunday World:

http://darkroom.sundayworld.com/original/ceb7e622d53f2b67bf1cd99228b41b57:276be5a65b9eb1f5777c83244dcbc798/tuam-deaths-records.pdf

1925 07
1926 39
1927 15
1928 14
1929 16

1930 09
1931 11
1932 24
1933 32
1934 30
1935 16
1936 48
1937 26
1938 26
1939 25

1940 34
1941 32
1942 48
1943 50
1944 40
1945 34
1946 49
1947 52
1948 25
1949 24

1950 18
1951 11
1952 7
1953 3
1954 10
1955 6
1956 8
1957 3
1958 1
1959 2

1960 1

(796 TOTAL)

1925 06 = 07 - 01
1926 15 = 39 - 23 - 01
1927 07 = 15 - 06 - 01 - 01
1928 11 = 14 - 02 - 01
1929 07 = 16 - 03 - 04 - 02

1930 05 = 09 - 01 - 01 - 02
1931 05 = 11 - 06
1932 08 = 24 - 15 - 01
1933 24 = 32 - 05 - 01 - 02
1934 24 = 30 - 04 - 02
1935 08 = 16 - 05 - 01
1936 22 = 48 - 22 - 03 - 01
1937 20 = 26 - 05 - 01
1938 17 = 26 - 04 - 03 - 02
1939 25

1940 26 = 34 - 05 - 03
1941 25 = 32 - 05 - 02
1942 38 = 48 - 02 - 06 - 02
1943 26 = 50 - 12 - 10 - 02
1944 22 = 40 - 12 - 06
1945 29 = 34 - 01 - 04
1946 42 = 49 - 06 - 01
1947 28 = 52 - 18 - 04 - 02
1948 12 = 25 - 01 - 10 - 02
1949 13 = 24 - 09

1950 14 = 18 - 03 - 01
1951 11
1952 04 = 07 - 02 - 01
1953 03
1954 09 = 10 - 01
1955 05 = 06 - 01
1956 08
1957 03
1958 01
1959 02

1960 01

1925
1926
1927
1928
1929

1930
1931
1932
1933 01
1934
1935
1936 01
1937 02
1938 02 + 01 w/whooping cough
1939 03

1940 02
1941 02
1942 04 + 01 w/influenza
1943 05
1944 06
1945 01
1946 10
1947 04
1948 01
1949 01 + 01 w/influenza

1950 03
1951 01
1952 00 + 01 w/whooping cough
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959

1960

Murray, James
died 04/11/1925 aged 4 Weeks
Child apparently well a couple of hours before death

Cunningham, Bridget
died 22/01/1928 aged 2 months
Asphyxia caused by her mother over-laying her deceased child

Cooke, Anthony
died 01/05/1926 aged 1 Month
Convulsions (7 Days) - Marasmus

Dunne, Patricia
died 16/05/1926 aged 2 Months
Measles (9 Days) - Marasmus

McNamara, Peter
died 26/08/1926 aged 7 Weeks
Congenital Malformation of Colon - Marasmus

Murphy, Mary
died 01/09/1926 aged 2 Months
Pneumonia (3 Days) - Marasmus

Kelly, Patrick
died 27/12/1929 aged 2 1/2 months
Marasmus from birth

Judge, Patricia
died 07/05/1932 aged 1 year
Marasmus

Cunniffe, Mary Finola
died 05/06/1933 aged 6 months
Marasmus 3 months

Kilmartin, John
died 22/08/1933 aged 2 months
Marasmus 2 months. Whooping cough. Cardiac failure 7 days

Holland, Bridgid
died 09/09/1933 aged 2 months
Marasmus. Asthma. Cardiac failure.

Brennan, Mary
died 28/09/1933 aged 4 months
Marasmus 3 months.

Loftus, John Patrick
died 30/05/1937 aged 10 months
Marasmus

Linnane, Margaret
died 23/01/1938 aged 3 1/2 months
Marasmus

Heneghan, Teresa
died 23/01/1938 aged 3 months
Marasmus

Hurley, Brigid
died 12/10/1939 aged 10 1/2 months
Dyspepsia & Marasmus since birth.

Dolan, Angela
died 19/04/1946 aged 3 months
Influenza 14 days. Marasmus 9 days.

Gilmore, Michael John
died 21/09/1946 aged 2 1/2 months
Impetigo capitas 21 days. Marasmus

Collins, Geraldine
died 22/02/1947 aged 13 months
Influenza 3 months. Marasmus 3 months.

Kenny, Bridget Agatha
died 23/08/1947 aged 2 months
Mental defective. Marasmus.

are truly amazing. Sorry, did I say amazing? I meant fucking terrifying.

Sometimes, religious beliefs have a negative impact, s4p. I'm sorry you can't accept that.

Last edited Mon Jun 16, 2014, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)

1925
1926 23 from 05 Apr to 16 May
1927
1928
1929 03 from 08 Nov to 22 Nov

1930
1931
1932 15 from 25 Jan to 14 Mar
1933
1934
1935
1936 22 from 27 Nov to 24 Dec
1937
1938
1939

1940
1941
1942
1943
1944 12 from 30 Mar to 27 May
1945
1946
1947 18 from 22 May to 20 June, from 14 Jul to 16 Jul, with one additional 07 Oct
1948 01 on 25 Aug listed as measles and whooping cough
1949

1950
1951
1952
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959

1960

concerning "illegitimacy"?

If the church's miserable view of "illegitimate" children affected the care, feeding, and treatment they got, it could explain the markedly HIGHER death rates in these homes.

1925
1926
1927 06 from 20 Mar to 19 Apr and on 09 May
1928
1929

1930 01 on 9 Mar
1931
1932
1933 05 from 14 Aug to 20 Sep, on 10 Oct, and from 9 Nov to 14 Nov
1934
1935
1936
1937
1938 04 on 8 Mar, from 10 Apr to 23 Apr, and on 22 Sep
1939

1940
1941 05 from 02 Mar to 11 Apr
1942 02 from 16 Aug to 20 Aug
1943 12 from 17 May to 28 Jun and on 04 Nov
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948 11 from 20 Feb to 31 Mar with one 25 Aug (also listed as measles)
1949

1950
1951
1952 02 from 30 Apr to 05 May
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959

1960

"... in the 1930s and 1940s was outrageous."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/from-empirersquos-rule-to-the-vice-like-grip-of-rome-irish-did-churchrsquos-bidding-over-tuam-272090.html

we could actually calculate death rates

It's right there.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-18-children-died-of-hunger-at-Tuam-mother-and-baby-home.html

You're still five lengths behind, trotsky.

Marasmus is noted in these 18 cases

Pity these children and their unwed mothers were treated so poorly, as inferior and sinful people.

1925
1926
1927 01 on 31 Mar
1928 02 on 25 Feb and 24 Nov
1929 04 from 26 Jan to 20 Feb

1930 01 on 04 Dec
1931 06 from 10 to 03 Mar, from 25 Mar to 11 Apr, and on 10 Jun
1932
1933 01 on 04 Apr
1934 04 from 07 Jan to 08 Jan, on 28 Jan, and on 20 Feb
1935 05 on 22 Jan, from 18 Feb to 09 Mar, and on 19 Sep
1936 03 from 27 Jan to 28 Jan, and on 28 Apr
1937 05 on 20 Jan, on 17 May, on 14 Jun, and from 13 Dec to 18 Dec
1938 03 from 09 Mar to 12 Mar, and on 29 Mar
1939

1940 05 on 03 Jun, from 31 Oct to 3 Nov
1941 02 on 12 Jan, and on 2 Feb
1942 06 on 05 Feb, from 20 Feb to 27 Feb, on 13 Apr, and on 26 Nov
1943 10 from 04 Feb to 13 Feb, from 03 Mar to 12 Mar, on 29 Mar, and on 26 Dec
1944 06 on 14 Jan, from 25 to 29 Mar, and on 30 Oct
1945 01 on 12 Nov
1946 06 on 07 Feb, on 19 Apr, on 24 Aug, from 20 Nov to 1 Dec, and on 21 Dec
1947 04 on 7 Jan, on 22 Feb, on 20 Mar, and on 16 Apr
1948
1949 09 on 13 Feb, from 29 Mar to 06 Apr, on 23 May, on 16 Aug, from 19 Nov to 22 Nov, and on 28 Dec

1950 03 from 01 Jan to 15 Jan, and on 13 May
1951
1952 01 on 07 Oct
1953
1954 01 on 24 Apr
1955 01 on 16 Aug
1956
1957
1958
1959

1960

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hundreds-attend-vigil-to-remember-tuam-babies-1.1828834

This thread will be a photo-finish.

1925 01
1926 01 + 02 w/measles + 01 w/pneumonia
1927 01 + 01 w/pertussis
1928 01
1929 02

1930 02
1931
1932 01 + 02 w/measles
1933 02
1934 02
1935 01
1936 01
1937 01
1938 02
1939 00 + 01 w/meningitis

1940 03
1941
1942 02
1943 02 + 01 w/influenza + 01 w/whooping cough
1944 00 + 01 w/measles
1945 04
1946 01
1947 02 + 02 w/measles + 01 w/meningitis
1948 02 + 01 w/whooping cough
1949

1950 01 + 01 w/meningitis
1951
1952
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959

1960

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/mother-baby-home-horror-there-3677328

Last edited Mon Jun 16, 2014, 09:13 PM - Edit history (1)

1925 - 1932
135 death records = 16.875/yr
The lowest numbers of deaths are 7 in 1925 and 9 in 1930
The highest numbers of deaths are 39 in 1926 and 24 in 1932
There are 41 measles deaths: 23 in 1926 and 15 in 1932
There are 07 pertussis deaths
There are 14 influenza deaths
There are 0 deaths listed as born premature
There are 15 deaths listed with tuberculosis
There are 2 deaths listed with syphilis

1933 - 1939
203 death records = 29.000/yr
The lowest numbers of deaths are 30 in 1934 and 25 in 1939
The highest numbers of deaths are 32 in 1933 and 48 in 1936
There are 22 measles deaths: 22 in 1936
There are 09 pertussis deaths: 5 in 1936
There are 21 influenza deaths: 1 in 1933 and 3 in 1936
There are 10 deaths listed as born premature
There are 10 deaths listed with tuberculosis
There are 3 deaths listed with syphilis

1940 - 1947
339 death records = 42.375/yr
The lowest numbers of deaths are 34 in 1940/1945 and 32 in 1941
The highest numbers of deaths are 50 in 1942 and 52 in 1947
There are 30 measles deaths: 18 in 1947
There are 19 pertussis deaths
There are 40 influenza deaths: 6 in 1942 and 4 in 1947
There are 35 deaths listed as born premature
There are 24 deaths listed with tuberculosis
There are 3 deaths listed with syphilis

1948 - 1954
099 death records = 14.143/yr
The lowest numbers of deaths are 7 in 1952 and 3 in 1953
The highest numbers of deaths are 25 in 1948 and 24 in 1949
There is 1 measles death
There are 13 pertussis deaths: 11 in 1948
There are 14 influenza deaths: 9 in 1949
There are 8 deaths listed as born premature
There are 5 deaths listed with tuberculosis
There is 1 death listed with syphilis

1955 - 1960
021 death records = 03.500/yr
The lowest numbers of deaths are 1 in 1958/1960 and 2 in 1959
The highest numbers of deaths are 6 in 1955 and 8 in 1956
There are 0 measles deaths
There are 0 pertussis deaths
There is 1 influenza deaths in 1955
There are 0 deaths listed as born premature
There are 0 deaths listed with tuberculosis
There are 0 deaths listed with syphilis

It provides a brilliant and factual counterpoint to the original story.

It was heartening to see (in another thread) that some news organizations are printing retractions/corrections. Hopefully it will get reputable newspapers to reflect on why they published this story with insufficient background checking.

there are so many deaths 1933 - 1947: nearly 70% of the deaths occur in these 15 years

It wasn't an active septic tank, it was an abandoned and repurposed septic tank where these malnourished and neglected babies' bodies were buried! Totally different story! Nothing to see here, the church's stance toward unwed mothers and their "illegitimate" children are so completely unworthy of discussion. How's the view down there in the sand?

It is only atheists saying that his obfuscation by Google-spew is reprehensible. That it is clearly a tactic to draw away any blame being placed on the RCC.

Sickening that only atheists see this for what it is and/or are the only ones calling it out.