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rug

(82,333 posts)
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 01:23 PM Jun 2014

One life: the positive message of atheism

Oliver Shore argues that atheism is a better guide to life than any religion can be

By Oliver Shore on 10/06/2014

As an atheist I have grown tired (nay, exhausted) of being told that my world view gives me a bleak world with nothing to live for. One of the most common recourses of the religious when the epistemological battle is lost is to claim that without a god, without religion, life has no meaning, no purpose, no meaningful end. That all is just a nihilistic wasteland of Darwinian survival of the fittest with no goal at the end of the cosmic game. I am deeply offended every time I see this card played because it implies that, without something supernatural, there is nothing to the natural.

It is remarkably similar to the card the religious play in the moral argument, that without a god and an objective morality derived from a deity we would have no reason to be good. I would like to think that humans have more reason to respect each other than fear of eternal damnation and torture. In the same way I think that humanity still has hope and a source for meaning outside of theistic doctrine; one does not need to believe that an intervening god has given your life meaning but rather one can give one’s life meaning in absence of divine agency.

When you look at it in context of religious belief, atheism is the assertion that we have no reason to believe that our experience of the world continues after death; without a belief in the supernatural the one life we experience is all we have. In the same way that most of us did not experience the year 1896 we will not experience the year 2196; we are simply a passing consciousness of the world that is presented to us for the years we are alive. Atheism denies the continuation of consciousness after death and hence asserts that death is, as far as we know, the end. This one life we have is all we have.

That is the very reason that an atheist has everything to live for, rather than nothing. If you believe that this is your one shot at life, then that gives you all the more incentive to squeeze absolutely as much as you can from it as you can while you’re still here. If you believe in a Christian afterlife, an eternity spent in paradise with god after you die, then what is the point in improving the world while you’re still here, in the corporeal state in which you can actually change life for the better? What is the point in experiencing life to the full if you believe that, because of a human sacrifice that took place two thousand years ago, you will live forever? From a realist point of view, the short few decades during which we have the privilege of being conscious are all we will ever get, and if you are a responsible member of the human race then you will exploit that time to the full, and make sure that you leave your mark. Christopher Hitchens, the awe-inspiring anti-theist, summarised this perfectly with a quote from Horace Mann in his autobiography; “until you have done something for humanity you should be ashamed to die”.

http://oxfordstudent.com/2014/06/10/one-life-the-positive-message-of-atheism/

I've heard this many times. Every human has but one life, whether there's a belief in an afterlife or not. Everything he says about this "encouraging thought" applies equally to one who believes death is not the end. I don't find this argument persuasive. I'm curious about others' thoughts.

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Jim__

(14,063 posts)
1. A couple of thoughts.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jun 2014

I have had discussions with a number of religious people about things like the meaning of life. I don't remember any of them telling me that I had a bleak outlook on life or that I have nothing to live for. That's not to say that no religious people ever make those claims. But, then, some atheists make similar claims, for instance, Alex Rosenberg's The Atheist's Guide to Reality, reviewed at skepticink:

There are no ethics. No free will. No purpose to life. Your introspective conscious awareness is largely unreliable. And, you never think about anything. Such are the controversial conclusions of Alex Rosenberg’s The Atheist’s Guide to Reality.

I think most of us in the atheist community agree with Rosenberg’s starting points: we believe science is the best method for getting the truth, there’s no god, and that physical reality is all there is. The conclusions he draws from this are correct (but misstated).

...


So, is Oliver Shore tired of being told this? Or, is he only tired of being told this by the religious? And, if religious people do indeed tell him this, are they actually telling him that his life has no transcendent purpose? And, would he agree that his life has no transcendent purpose?

Camus certainly argued strongly that a life that is doomed to end is an absurd life. And he struggled with finding a meaning for such a life. True, Camus did find meaning, but no one who has read him should argue that finding such meaning is either easy or clear-cut. If Shore has struggled with this question and answered it, he should not be surprised that religious people, who don't accept the absurdity of life and have not had to struggle with this question, don't see a satisfactory answer. Indeed, Shore should enjoy enlightening people about his insights and their lack of understanding.

Camus' thoughts about the meaning of an absurd life, for example, in The Myth of Sisyphus, are inspiring.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. Yes, Camus is a good guide. As is Marcus Aurelius.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:38 PM
Jun 2014

What I find unsupportable here though is his statement that the brevity and finality of life is ipso facto an imperative to do . . . . good . . . . or whatever. Frankly, if anything, it strikes me as a push.

Jim__

(14,063 posts)
3. We all have to find our own meaning in life - both religious and non-religious.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:58 PM
Jun 2014

If the atheist believes that he only has a few decades of life, then he can be driven to make the most of those decades. I'm not sure, though, exactly how anyone can do that. I'm especially not sure what Shore means when he says: If you believe that this is your one shot at life, then that gives you all the more incentive to squeeze absolutely as much as you can from it as you can while you’re still here.

Squeeze absolutely as much as you can from it? As much sleep and relaxation? Earn as much money as possible? Learn about the universe? Absolutely as much as you can is somewhat of a vague description of purpose. Shore might share some of his ambitions with us and tell us how they convey meaning to him. Yes, live with as much love and friendship as we can. But, how does that compare to the belief that love and friendship extend beyond death? Could a religious person claim that love and friendship that ends, love and friendship that is temporary, does not compare to love and friendship that doesn't end? There is, at the the very least, an argument there.

I believe that finding meaning in a temporary life is more difficult than finding meaning in a permanent life. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that therefore life is permanent. A better response from an atheist might be to concede that eternal life gives us more meaning, but just because the religious believe they have eternity does not mean that they do; and so, from the atheist's point of view, the religious belief in an eternal life only conveys the illusion of meaning. It can be argued that a temporary, but real, meaning trumps the illusion of an eternal meaning.

In the end, I think we all need to struggle to find meaning. Personally, I wouldn't want to attempt to judge the meaning that someone else finds for his own life. I also don't think any realistic person can claim to have won the epistemological battle.


 

rug

(82,333 posts)
4. Yeah, that part struck me as rather frenetic.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:32 PM
Jun 2014

"squeeze absolutely as much as you can from it as you can while you’re still here."

What's wrong with simply living your time, knowing it is short? Stoicism versus epicureanism.

The other problem is that different people want to squeeze different things. Our brief time is spent negotiating.

What he considers is the lesson, that "it just means that we should each create a meaning of our own. A meaning that is in accordance with the respect we have for other human beings who are trying to do exactly the same thing" is, ironically, idealism in the face of material finality.

Promethean

(468 posts)
5. This isn't really an argument to try to "convert."
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:39 AM
Jun 2014

It is a simple refutation of the assertion that the "atheist worldview" is bleak, empty, pointless or whatever other synonym you can think of. It comes up A LOT in our discussions with theists and it is frankly just as insulting as the assertion that atheists are immoral.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. I understand that. It's what he wrote in the first two paragraphs.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:26 AM
Jun 2014

But he doesn't really establish why life with death is better than life with the hope of something beyond death. He bolsters his assertion with the strawman that theists essentially ignore their lives while awaiting paradise.

And he has some preconceptions that he hasn't thought through. For instance, where does "the privilege of being conscious" come from? There is no privilege in nature. The King of the Jungle is just fantasy.

No, his assertion is that we have one life and we'd best live it well. And? It's also a sentiment expressed by countless believers.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
7. I find this akin to arguing about whether gay people have better sex than
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:50 AM
Jun 2014

straight people.

Some do, some don't and who gives a rat's ass anyway.

Being a believer or non-believer isn't about getting a one up on the other. It's not about being smarter or more sane or more moral or more able to have a "better life".

It's just where one finds themselves based on their own life and their own experiences and possibly even their own biology.

How you live and behave is the money shot, not what you believe.

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