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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:09 AM Jun 2014

"God Don't Make No Mistakes": Common Sense, Faith-Based Celebration of Gender Minorities

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-adam-ackley-phd/god-dont-make-no-mistakes_b_5474732.html

H. Adam Ackley, Ph.D.
University professor, author, ordained minister

Posted: 06/10/2014 3:22 pm EDT Updated: 06/10/2014 3:59 pm EDT Print Article

The upcoming proposal to ban recognition of transgender (including intersex) identities by the Southern Baptist Convention, though put forth by a college professor of ethics, is neither well-educated in its understanding of the complex biology of gender nor ethical. Those of us who are transgender or intersex are frequently and falsely accused -- merely by our very existence as ourselves -- of implying that God has made a mistake regarding our gender. Such bullying often drives my transgender and intersex brothers and sisters not into "gender conformity" but simply into atheism or isolation from other "believers." It is also based not only on faulty science (many of us have verifiable medical conditions that make our gender more complex that that of the majority) but worse on flawed theology. As a Christian pastor, theologian and university professor myself (who is intersex but not allowed to live that way openly until recent changes in medical and psychiatric diagnosis and treatment for people like me), I want to correct this all too common misunderstanding of theology of gender.

Trans* people are not "God's mistake"! Although other forms of human diversity may also wrongly lead to oppression by the privileged majority (differences of race, ethnicity, socioeconomic class, nationality, physical ability, sexual orientation, and religion), they often don't seem to cause the moral / theological outrage that gender diverse people do as if their very existence blasphemes against God. Yet to be born outside the gender binary really isn't any different than being born with any other form of diversity. To explain to others that we are transgender doesn't inherently suggest that God made any sort of mistake in creating us as transgender. Even if we seek medical treatment to help us overcome gender dysphoria (which in many ways is a reaction to others' expectation that we conform to heteronormative, binary gender norms of masculinity and femininity), we are no more suggesting that God made a mistake in creating us than anyone else who undergoes medical treatment for a medical condition. For example, most religious people wouldn't think of forcing those born with a cleft palate that required surgical correction to defend their existence theologically, as if their very existence on the planet is some kind of blasphemous allegation of God's incompetence. Yet the religious routinely attack those of us who are transgender not only on the basis of gender but as heretics, which many of us find even more painful.

Some people are clearly ambiguous, and that is no oxymoron. Rather "clearly ambiguous" can be an accurate description of some of us who are trans*, enough to make the point without ignoring the great diversity of trans* identities or forcing all to disclose their private medical histories (as Janet Mock, LaVerne Cox, and others so rightly remind us is inappropriate to expect) that transgender identities, whatever their origins, are real. The experiences of those of us who are ambiguously gendered share of medical malpractice and being socially outcast raise significant questions regarding the mistreatment of all transgender people. Why, for example, as has been argued at the expense of my career and ability to support my children, is seen as more "natural" to force an intersex man to take female hormones from puberty through middle age to feminize him, even when doing so renders him chronically suicidally depressed beyond any ability of medicine or therapy to ameliorate? It frightens me for the sake of the Church and my transgender human family that literally not one Christian has ever questioned the feminizing medical treatments that delayed my natural male puberty until middle age as a moral or theological issue. Transphobia clearly has nothing to do with whether or not one takes sex hormones, as if merely taking estrogen or testosterone implies God lacks control over one's body and made a mistake in allowing one to age naturally or to function for reproduction. (I am fairly certain some middle-aged Christian cisgender men may supplement their testosterone for various reasons and that cisgender middle-aged Christian women may take hormone replacement therapies or use hormone-based birth control methods.)

I for one am certainly not implying that God made a mistake in creating me when I acknowledge that although I looked female as an infant externally, my particular transgender configuration is such that I developed physical qualities of both genders at puberty and required treatment with high doses of female hormones for thirty-five years to function passably as if I were a cisgender female, and that my physical ambiguity reasserted itself when I was allowed by recent changes in medical and psychiatric diagnostic and treatment standards to live as myself, male. Without hormone treatment, I am ambiguous, complex, androgynous, and understand myself to be male. In faith, I believe that God made me that way, fearfully, wonderfully, and with unconditionally and infinitely loving purpose, and I have no regrets about it. What I do regret is other people's transphobia -- an indescribable, incomprehensible hatred and fear of what they don't understand of God's glorious creative imagination when it comes to creating us gendered: The many expressions of gender and sexuality that we find in human beings occur in all species. Diversity in creation is Godly, and to deny it is to question the power of the Holy Spirit --which Jesus once taught was the only unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31-32).

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"God Don't Make No Mistakes": Common Sense, Faith-Based Celebration of Gender Minorities (Original Post) cbayer Jun 2014 OP
Lol. "common sense, faith-based..." cleanhippie Jun 2014 #1
His interpretation is very noble and good. trotsky Jun 2014 #2
Matt. 12:31-32 Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #3
Nice. trotsky Jun 2014 #4
Does that surprise you? cbayer Jun 2014 #5
"will not be forgiven" - What do you suppose that means for us atheists, cbayer? n/t trotsky Jun 2014 #6
I don't think atheism okasha Jun 2014 #7
But if one doesn't believe in god, the bible is a pretty meaningless document. cbayer Jun 2014 #8
The belief that atheists, by virtue of their disbelief, are inherently immoral is widespread... Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #10
I understand that there are those that believe that cbayer Jun 2014 #14
No, I don't object to any of that. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #17
I guess I can see your point. cbayer Jun 2014 #18
Blasphemy can be as little as showing a lack of reverence for whatever god is at hand in the AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #39
Is there a need for it? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #30
So it is ok to express anti-theist opinions Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #40
There seem to be a good many people okasha Jun 2014 #12
I guess I just can't see how it matters unless someone is trying to cbayer Jun 2014 #15
Fred Phelps didn't infringe on anyone's rights. trotsky Jun 2014 #16
I don't follow your logic there... Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #21
I don't disagree that some have interpreted the verse in that way cbayer Jun 2014 #22
Does this refute what I've said in some way? Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #11
The piece is about standing up for transgendered people from a religious cbayer Jun 2014 #13
Don't forget Matthew 18:6 AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #31
That could actually apply as a pro-trans passage Lordquinton Jun 2014 #38
That has nothing to do with atheism. rug Jun 2014 #9
Shhhhhh. It's not kind to tell them that. okasha Jun 2014 #19
PZ wouldn't recognize blasphemy if it was crawling around in his underwear. rug Jun 2014 #23
Adolescent stunt okasha Jun 2014 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author okasha Jun 2014 #20
On the plus side, deny the Holy Spirit, and anyone at your door trying to convert you should give up muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #24
That won't do it. okasha Jun 2014 #26
I am blissfully unaware of rug's post, and wish to remain that way (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #27
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." rug Jun 2014 #28
Why the need to bolt faith-based onto the end of common sense? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #29
Gee, maybe it's because okasha Jun 2014 #32
Right. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #33
The problem is not invented. okasha Jun 2014 #34
Perhaps you should let me speak for myself, instead of making up bullshit. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #35
Nevermind that 'faith based' and 'common sense' aren't really compatible terms. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #36
Did you make that strawman yourself? Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #42
The premise is flawed. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #41

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
1. Lol. "common sense, faith-based..."
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:31 AM
Jun 2014

ox·y·mo·ron
noun \ˌäk-sē-ˈmȯr-ˌän\

: a combination of words that have opposite or very different meanings

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
2. His interpretation is very noble and good.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:53 AM
Jun 2014

However, it is only that - a personal interpretation.

Other believers have their own interpretations, and opinions on what the bible says and what their god thinks. And unfortunately, they are just as valid.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
5. Does that surprise you?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:53 PM
Jun 2014

FTR, here's the verse you cite.

Matthew 12:31-32
New International Version (NIV)
31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
7. I don't think atheism
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:14 PM
Jun 2014

qualifies as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." On the other hand,"atheists are all going to hell" DOES attempt to limit its power and denies the good in a fairly large class of people who are also, in theist belief, creations of a divine power.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
8. But if one doesn't believe in god, the bible is a pretty meaningless document.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:17 PM
Jun 2014

If someone tells me I am going to hell, it means nothing to me. They don't know. Their book doesn't know. It's just their belief, which I don't share.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
10. The belief that atheists, by virtue of their disbelief, are inherently immoral is widespread...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:51 PM
Jun 2014

...and regardless of how I feel about the accuracy of the Bible, I say with confidence that anyone who promulgates this slanderous notion is an odious shitheel... especially when they themselves are trying to shuffle their own behavior out from under the toxic umbrella of "sin".




cbayer

(146,218 posts)
14. I understand that there are those that believe that
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

and agree that those that say it are odious shitheels.

But this article really isn't about that….. unless someone wants to make it about that.

Do you object to the aim of the article in general? Specifically, do you object to making the case that transgendered people can and should be defended from a religious point of view?

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
17. No, I don't object to any of that.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:16 PM
Jun 2014

My objection is in that the author threw twenty-five million people under the bus to make his argument. It's poor form, no matter how you cut it, and just because I support the author in his general aim I nevertheless to reserve the right to call him out if he acts like a dick.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
18. I guess I can see your point.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jun 2014

I don't read it as throwing anyone under the bus and the passage speaks specifically about blasphemy not disbelief. But if that is not how you read it, I can understand why you would react this way.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
39. Blasphemy can be as little as showing a lack of reverence for whatever god is at hand in the
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:30 AM
Jun 2014

discussion of the moment.

I am incapable of showing reverence toward things I don't perceive as existing. The simple statement 'I don't believe your god exists' can qualify.

And that sucks, because blasphemy is a very real, very punishable crime in some nations.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
30. Is there a need for it?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:58 PM
Jun 2014

Is it not enough to look at another person and see, that they are in fact, a human being?

How hard is that?


If faith floats your boat, neat-o, but I have apparently no expertise in judging whether or not the material you cited in the OP can possibly convince any individual believer that also happens to think less of a LGBT person. My estimate would be 'no', not effective, because my observation thus far is, that people read whatever they want to into those texts. If they want to find a justification for their bigotry in it, they will.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
40. So it is ok to express anti-theist opinions
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

such as those believers are "odious shit heels".

I want to make sure I understand what you all want in terms of propriety.

Odious shitheels in, fairy tales out. Got it.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
12. There seem to be a good many people
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:59 PM
Jun 2014

who don't believe in a god to whom it does matter. Some of themare regular posters here.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
15. I guess I just can't see how it matters unless someone is trying to
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014

infringe on the rights of non-believers.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
21. I don't follow your logic there...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:19 PM
Jun 2014

We're talking about a Biblical verse that, for 2,000 years or so, has been used to cast the atheist as the bogeyman in the closet looking to lure your children into eternal damnation. The role this passage and it's corresponding passage in Luke have played in the social and political ostracism of atheists in the Christian world cannot be diminished.

I don't accept the authenticity of the Bible, nor do I particularly care that this is a Biblical verse. What matters is that this verse is reflective of a nascent, pervasive opinion that has manifestly affected the social acceptance atheists in this country.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
22. I don't disagree that some have interpreted the verse in that way
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:43 PM
Jun 2014

or that it has been used against atheists, but I would challenge anyone who took that position.

However, I've never expressed that opinion or seen it expressed by anyone on this site.

Things are changing when it comes to atheism and I am hopeful that the change will continue. Things are changing when it comes to transgendered people and I am hopeful that that change will continue as well.

I don't think a win for one means a loss for the other. Quite the contrary.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
11. Does this refute what I've said in some way?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:59 PM
Jun 2014

The author made himself fairly clear in his interpretation of its meaning:

Diversity in creation is Godly, and to deny it is to question the power of the Holy Spirit --which Jesus once taught was the only unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31-32).



cbayer

(146,218 posts)
13. The piece is about standing up for transgendered people from a religious
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:01 PM
Jun 2014

perspective.

It is not intended to stand up for non-believers, though others have done that.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
31. Don't forget Matthew 18:6
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 12:01 AM
Jun 2014

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."


Good thing I don't believe in any of that shit.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
38. That could actually apply as a pro-trans passage
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 03:30 AM
Jun 2014

If something you were born with causes you to stumble, remove it, change it, make it so that part of you no longer prevents you from attaining spiritual wholeness. Would be a far better passage to use than one that condemns non-believers.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
9. That has nothing to do with atheism.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:50 PM
Jun 2014

Blasphemy against the Spirit is believing that there is a sin so great that God cannot or will not forgive it.

That requires belief in God. Duh.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
19. Shhhhhh. It's not kind to tell them that.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:05 PM
Jun 2014

So many of them like to think they're committing blasphemy, like PZ. Telling them they're not is like....like....taking away their Easter Bunny.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
23. PZ wouldn't recognize blasphemy if it was crawling around in his underwear.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:21 PM
Jun 2014

Adolescent stunts are far from blasphemy.

Response to rug (Reply #9)

muriel_volestrangler

(101,160 posts)
24. On the plus side, deny the Holy Spirit, and anyone at your door trying to convert you should give up
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:58 PM
Jun 2014

because they know you are unforgivable.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
28. "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:56 PM
Jun 2014

Thomas Gray, Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College (1742).

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
29. Why the need to bolt faith-based onto the end of common sense?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:49 PM
Jun 2014

Somewhere there's a fish missing his bicycle.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
32. Gee, maybe it's because
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 12:27 AM
Jun 2014

the writer's discussing attitudes toward trangendered and intersex persons in a religious context.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
33. Right.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 01:14 AM
Jun 2014

I don't get it.

It's like inventing a problem, to take credit for inventing the solution to the problem you invented.


It's this hard:

"See that person over there? That's a human being. Treat them like you would like to be treated"

Not hard.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
34. The problem is not invented.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 01:24 AM
Jun 2014

Or do you think that fundamentalists don't really harbor bigotry toward LGBT persons?

Or do you just think that if a problem isn't your problem, it doesn't exist? So much for all your claims to advocacy on behalf of LGBT's. Your credibility on that one just went straight down the drain.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
35. Perhaps you should let me speak for myself, instead of making up bullshit.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 01:32 AM
Jun 2014

The problem exists, but it is invented by fundamentalists.


I think I already answered your question in post 30.

These people see what they want to see in religious texts. If they want to see bigotry (edit: or want to see justification thereof), they see it. OP content isn't going to change their minds.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
36. Nevermind that 'faith based' and 'common sense' aren't really compatible terms.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 01:53 AM
Jun 2014
"Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to&quot nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate." (Wiki)

"Faith is confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion. It can also be defined as belief that is not based on proof,[1] as well as confidence based on some degree of warrant.[2][3] The word faith is often used as a synonym for hope,[4] trust,[5] or belief." (wiki)

These seem inimical terms.

Response to okasha (Reply #34)

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
42. Did you make that strawman yourself?
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:59 AM
Jun 2014

It's a beaut! I'm wondering if I can get more of those online.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
41. The premise is flawed.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:48 AM
Jun 2014

I'll ignore the assumption that any god made anything. Given that assumption, these gods have made plenty of fucked up shit. From evolutionary dead ends to obvious design flaws to horrible defects product quality is frequently lacking, as it would be in a "design and manufacturing process" that operates as outlined by that Darwin fellow rather than by some supernatural guidance.

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