I prefer E Pluribus Unum.

Out of many; one.

Such a beautiful sentiment.

say about their religion at face value and not conjecture about their true beliefs.

At least when we are talking about a Democratic President.

You made a statement indicating that you thought Obama was lying about his religious beliefs and you thought he was not a believer.

Others challenged you on this and, IIRC, there was some understanding reached, at least between you and I.

So why are you still carrying that chip around?

The article seems to be entirely consistent with the point you were trying to make in that other thread.

Since you are the OP, I can see the inference.
I meant my post more as irony. That I was challenged on this, and here is an article that says the same thing.
Guess my tone didn't get through. I probably needed an emote thingy.

His remarks about Obama were much more inflammatory than yours, but you got singed with the fire meant for him.

As I said, I think this article more accurately reflects where you were coming from than Maher's remarks did.

was purposely provocative.

Obama does lie, i see threads on GD all the time that point to his lies or intended misstatements.
I wonder if saying he lies about his religion seen as a worse statement?

What issues are you referring to? Is it fact or just conjecture by some of his strongest critics.

I think Obama is one of the most honest presidents in my lifetime.

I am not agreeing that he is a liar, just saying he is accused of it here on DU.


Unlike Maher, I am not saying he is lying about his religion, just projecting a more acceptable image.

This site clearly has two camps and those in the Obama support camp tend to react rather strongly to things like accusations of lying.

Your point about projecting a more acceptable image is probably right on the money.

I said agnostic, not atheist. I think he has serious doubts but leans toward some "higher power" Christianity is just the venue he uses.
He talks about disliking dogma. He likes the teachings of Jesus as a point of reference.

particularly in this country.

I don't have the data, but I think a lot of agnostics and "nones" are as you describe - leaning towards a "higher power" and finding some value in the teaching of Jesus. And many find value in other teachings as well.

In light of that, they really have no interest in challenging religion in general, but more recognition that everyone follows their own path.

And as long as someone's path doesn't set up a road block in mine or anyone else's, I see no reason to question it.

(can't link) among college non-believers that had 40% say there is no God, 35% say they don't know and about 10% say there is a higher power.

I'm also curious about the other 15%.

so extrapolating is always iffy

The others were "believe in God sometimes", "have doubts but believe" and "believe" (1%)

I'm really interested in what is happening demographically these days.

Some major shifts can only be good, imo, as it indicates that the dominance of the religious right is probably waning.

Skeptical Inquirer, which is subscription only.

here is the link to the poll;
http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/centers/isssc/Documents/ARIS_2013_College%20Students_Sept_25_final_draft.pdf

It's a pretty good survey as these things go, but I don't think one can draw anything but the broadest of conclusions from it.

The terms are really not well defined (religious, secular, spiritual) and there is no differentiation among the "nones", which include both believers and non-believers.

As is common with these kinds of surveys, the variables are enormous and very hard to control for in any way.

But, despite all that, its a pretty good and I suspect accurate reflection of that population.

It's a snapshot that gives us an indication.

stubbornly blocking any action on the more pertinent and pressing duties of their positions in the role of government.

Separation is a Constitutional issue for the courts.