to think Sunday Church is as important as they use to.

It is sad when a church dies out.

I heard that my childhood parish in Queens had merged with another. Just not the same.

I don't find it to be sad either. In fact, I see it at a cause for celebration; people doing more productive things with their time.

And I wasn't trying to speak for them or anyone else, which is why is said "I think..."

Why the need to try and mischaracterize what I actually posted?

The folks not going don't seem to think it's sad.

I don't find it to be sad either. In fact, I see it at a cause for celebration; people doing more productive things with their time
---------
My point is we can not speak for them. There are many reasons people stop going.

They die, they are too infirmed, they move away, or they feel the church is not for them. There are other reasons we can think of as well.


My point is we can not speak for them.

I offered my opinion as to whether or not they might find it sad or not, an idea you proffered in your post.

How you see that as "speaking for them" is to me, a willful misrepresentation of my words, for some unknown purpose.

to what I, as an atheist, would like to see.
I, as an atheist, and not speaking for other atheists, because how would I know what other atheists would think, would like to see religion becoming less and less important in peoples lives.

to amuse.

Seems pretty self-evident by their lack of attendance.

Perhaps getting a high colonic or something. That is to say, cleansing ones self seems to be a reasonable, and more productive alternative. YMMV.

Not much ideas in there.

And your proclamations carry so very much weight!

Again, your proclamations carry so much weight.

have a nice, hot cup of coffee,

And then debating religion on the internet.

That or Football.

But debating religion on the internet is one of the least productive human activities.

with going to church.

But the sleeping in is a better use of time.

And then there is Football!

others' mileage may vary.

Of course it also depends on the Church.

It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

You may prefer Proverbs:

Classic disruption.

like a serious discussion of how Moses crossed the Red Sea!

Or dogs in Heaven?

So serious.

be worthwhile?

I do see lot of criticism of those who challenge the belief in this fable though.

seems mighty mechanical to me.

But the OP's question was immediately derailed, dragged by a pack to some dark refuge, and serially gnawed.

of what.

It's a story that did not happen and those you accuse of derailing were simply trying to point that out.

You took legit issue with something said about the alleged virgin mary, which really wasn't even on topic, but other than that.... vOv

But there's so much misinformation spewed here, I had to make one comment.

Now, go read the dog thread.

Classic projection.

I'll not disagree.

You know, productive shit.

who are not going to church sad?

I get together with friends on Sundays often.
None of them show sadness at not going to church.

In my experience, it depends on the person and the circumstances.

has a similar experience as me.

The folks who aren't going to church don't seem to think it sad.

Do you think he knows people who do think it sad and is lying?

Even among those whose actual church attendance is rather sparse?

cleanhippie sad the folks not going church.

You'll have to ask him if he meant those whose former churches closed down.

But that's you reading of what he said.

at the local truck stop, or someone's living room.

A particular building shutting down does not preclude any individual from being unable to 'go to church', unless you want to pretend distance to a church is something like a 'food desert'.

dying parishes are dying because the parishioners are dying off and are too infirmed to go to church. NYC parish priests spend more ti e doing home visits because their parishioners can't make it to church.

younger people as not interested in going to Church?

At least in NYC.

The question the church must adk is why are they not getting tge younger generation to come to church.

One reason is the decline of Catholic Schools in NYC.

I thought you were were a mathemetician.

Shouldn't you know the difference?

That's fine.

I was just curious about whether or not you had evidence.

You want to parse the criteria by which I've arrived at an opinion?

Coming from a person that offers "because I believe it" as their reasoning for believing that a man miraculously rose from the dead, among other outlandish claims, makes me question the seriousness of your request.

Then they won't be very sad over a place closing that they no longer patronize.

Look at it like a restaurant you may have gone to for a long time, then stopped going because the food wasn't very good or the menu was old and unchanged. You hear that it closed down due to lack of patronage, you give it a moments thought then move on to something more important, like a high colonic or something.

...who failed to make much use of that library would be sad?

Wouldn't be very sad over its closing.

I'd be very sad if it were shut down.

One of your underlying assumptions seems to be that people are inherently selfish.

Have any idea what people's assumptions are.

The real questions are why are there no new people coming in. That is the more interesting question.

It seems reasonable to assume that a major factor would be that younger people find no reason to believe the mythology presented in church as real, historical, and factual events. And that they find it boring compared to the myriad distractions that can be found IRL.

The scandals took its toll. And atheism is on the rise in society so many people just don't believe anymore,

I would agree with you, for the reasons I already offered above: young people tend to find the ideologies, dogmas, and beliefs in the supernatural to be absurd, unnecessary, and/or irrelevant.

Churches that don't become more inclusive will not survive in the long run.

People don't necessarily want a prepackaged deal when it comes to faith. Meaning they might want to explore it on their own.

People now tend to place more value on factual and reality based subjects.

But faith will survive.

I find your optimism regarding the longevity of "faith" in the supernatural to be amusing.

I guess as long as we continue to evolve the definition of the word as it pertains to religion as we've been doing so far, yes, "faith" will survive. It will be largely irrelevant but it will persist.

That's the point of this entire exchange.

The shift is already underway, the march toward irrelevance has already begun.

destroys civilization and we see people

stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

Were you referring to some specific case?

Some Churches are involved in the local community and provide benefit to people whether are not they are members. In my opinion it is very productive to get out of the house and talk to friends and neighbors.

It's especially sad when the neighborhood is in economic decline and the closed-up Church building adds to it.

The parish we belong to (in Brooklyn) is struggling and there has been talk for years of consolidation with another parish nearby. They keep proposing and then delaying that.

We have started attending a different parish, however. One that is more child friendly. We have a four year old and this particular church has childrens' masses and play time for kids afterwards in the basement. And, because our neighborhood is filled with families and kids, this particular church is growing.

The others don't cater to kids or make it as child friendly.

Overall, though, the diocese of Brooklyn and Queens (as well as the NY diocese) are having big attendance issue and money issues. Parishoners are not giving as much (for a variety of reasons) to the churches, and attendance overall is falling. Brooklyn is trying to make church more user friendly, but, honestly, our Bishop is an old dud known to be kind of a jerk. At least Dolan seems affable. DiMarzio is an unsmiling curmudgeon.

It is what it is.

Church doesn't seem to be on the menu for most of them.

I work for a Catholic agency and there really is a demand for our services. My experience is that our social and human services are still well-respected and needed, even if Church attendance is down.

People just stop. Because of a multitude of reasons, they don't see the benefit, or draw, or reality, or who knows. It just dies off. Sadly, it probably won't be quietly in the instances of some leaderships.

Not saying it will come to fruition tomorrow, but the number of people that identify as religious is on a downward trend, yes?