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Related: About this forumVatican on Kim Davis meeting
... The pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis, and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said in a statement released on Friday morning ... Pope Francis met with several dozen persons who had been invited by the Nunciature to greet him as he prepared to leave Washington for New York City ... Such brief greetings occur on all papal visits and are due to the popes characteristic kindness and availability. The only real audience granted by the pope at the Nunciature was with one of his former students and his family.Pope Francis Meeting Wasnt an Endorsement of Kim Daviss Views, Vatican Says
By JIM YARDLEY
OCT. 2, 2015
Dorian Gray
(13,479 posts)that this trip ended on such a sour political note. Partisan Politics in the US is no game for the Pope to play. It really left a very sour taste in my mouth. And if it wasn't his intention, then people set it up to look as such....
The whole thing shows that it's all a political game, and I don't want to play it.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)It just revealed the truth more clearly. The whole visit was a bigot's version of a PR stunt.
Watching the media lick the pope-huckster's anus mirabiles was disgusting. Watching progressives fall for it was like watching GWB win re-election: how can people be so gullible? The "humble man of gawd" routine is the oldest pope trick in the Book.
Fuck Francis. Seriously. He publicly hates gays just like his church always has as cover for its entrenched culture of sexual obsession.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Very succintly, and well, put.
Amen.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)The pope does or says one thing, and then his handlers and spinmeisters walk it back, allowing (they hope) everyone to see exactly what they need to in the whole episode, depending on where they look. Excellent PR tactics.
What the pope said to her was supportive of her position, however, and that position is not complex at all. She doesn't believe that same-sex couples should be allowed to legally marry. Period. Which is exactly the same non-nuanced, uncompromising position that the pope and his church hold, so the math on this meeting isn't hard. Does any sane person believe he would have met with her if she had been a "conscientious objector" who issued marriage licenses to same-sex couples in defiance of a law that forbade it? Please.
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)with a very wide variety of views; and wherever the Pope goes, no matter who may hold that office, thousands of people want to see to see him -- which means that meet-and-greets and receiving lines come with the job
A plausible scenario here might be that a conservative Catholic, with an invitation to the embassy's come-gladhand-Francis event, knew Davis was in DC for her "values-voter award" and took her along to the embassy as a personal guest, after which the rightwing noise machine sprang into overdrive
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Nobody brings uninvited, unvetted guests along on a lark to "meet the pope". His security wouldn't let that through any more than the Secret Service would for the president. And that scenario does not square with any account of the meeting that anyone has offered.
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)both Yayo Grassi and his boyfriend and other friends:
... The Vatican later confirmed that the only audience the pope had while he was in Washington was with a former student and his family: Yayo Grassi, an openly gay Argentine who visited Francis with his longtime partner and some friends ... A Vatican assistant spokesman, the Rev. Thomas Rosica, said the student was Grassi, the AP reported. A video posted online shows Grassi embracing the pope and introducing him to his partner, as well as an Argentine woman and some Asian friends ...
Vatican says pope also met with gay ex-student
Tom Kington
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The next day was just some random words put in his mouth by Vatican ventriloquists?
The desperate bullshit gymnastics seen here to splain the popes obvious bigotry are amusing.
rug
(82,333 posts)Francis did not specifically mention Davis in his reply, noting, I cant have in mind all the cases that can exist about conscientious objection. But he did offer a vigorous defense of conscientious objection as an important part of civil society.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/09/28/3706264/pope-francis-kim-davis/
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Kim Davis isn't one of them.
She belongs to a church that considers Catholicism devil worship.
Her only meaning to the pope was as a political symbol. Of hatred. Disguised as "conscience."
And he supported that bigotry.
Francis is a fake liberal. Now you know.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)After all, what di the Catholic Church contribute to Humanity that it didn't already know?
I would mention maybe two quotes, tops (the golden rule being universal)
"Judge not", and "he who cast the first stone".
Those two bits are brilliant.
The rest, not so much.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-popes-encounter-with-kim-davis-not-a-sign-of-support/
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)Vatican on Pope Francis and Kim Davis: Meeting no support for her case
Rosie Scammell and David Gibson | October 2, 2015
muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/europe/pope-francis-kim-davis-meeting.html
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)The archbishop, who was exiled to the United States in 2011 after losing a high-altitude Vatican power struggle that became public in an infamous leaks scandal, now finds himself at the center of another papal controversy. This time, the Vatican is suggesting that Archbishop Viganò is responsible for giving papal face time to Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk whose refusal to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples has made her a heroine to social conservatives.
............................................
He said Archbishop Viganò personally contacted Ms. Davis late in the day on Sept. 14 suggesting a private meeting with Pope Francis on Sept. 24. On the eve of the meeting, he said Ms. Davis received a voice mail message on her cellphone confirming the meeting and instructing her to keep her noticeably long hair up.
I told her this morning, Do not delete those, said Mr. Staver. He said, we were led to believe that the invitation did come directly from Pope Francis.
Mr. Staver said a conservative deacon, Keith Fournier, introduced him to Archbishop Viganò back in April before speaking at a National Organization for Marriage rally on the Washington Mall in opposition to same-sex marriage. As Mr. Staver descended from the stage, Archbishop Viganò made a point to thank me for my message, the lawyer said.
Archbishop Viganò, a cultural conservative born into a wealthy family in Varese, received the title of archbishop from John Paul II in 1992. He later joined the churchs diplomatic corps, which is one of the traditional sources of power in the Vatican, and in 2009 was installed by Pope Benedict XVI as secretary of the governorate of Vatican City State, a position not unlike the mayor of Vatican City.
Benedict wanted the ambitious Italian to enact government reforms, but Archbishop Viganòs efforts in that goal earned him powerful enemies. In early 2011, hostile anonymous articles attacking Archbishop Viganò began appearing in the Italian news media, the bulletin board of Vatican power politics. Archbishop Viganò appealed to Benedicts second in command, Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertone, who instead echoed the articles complaints about his rough management style and removed Archbishop Viganò from his post.
Those appeals and protests, later leaked by the popes butler, became the heart of the church scandal known as VatiLeaks, which many church observers say contributed to the resignation of Benedict XVI.
In one missive copied to the pope, Archbishop Viganò wrote to Cardinal Bertone accusing him of getting in the way of the popes reform mission, but also of failing to make good on a promise to elevate him to cardinal. When faced with a transfer to the United States, he protested that the move would give heart to those opposed to his efforts to clean up the corruption and abuse of power in the Vatican.
On July 7, 2011, he wrote to Benedict that on issues of malfeasance inside the Vatican, the Holy Father has certainly been kept in the dark.
The question now is did Archbishop Viganò, left to linger in the United States as a new administration has taken power in Rome, keep Pope Francis in the dark or simply underestimate the off-message media storm that a meeting with Ms. Davis would provoke. Or, after executing orders from Rome, has he once again found himself being hung out to dry at the end of his career. In January, Archbishop Viganò will turn 75, the age at which bishops must submit a formal request to the Vatican for permission to resign. These requests are not automatically accepted, and bishops often stay in their appointments long after. It seems unlikely, church analysts say, that Archbishop Viganò will be one of them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/europe/archbishop-at-center-of-mystery-of-papal-meeting-with-kim-davis.html?_r=0