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rug

(82,333 posts)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:34 PM Sep 2012

Atheist shares ‘great news’ at Westminster symposium

By Janese Silvey
Wednesday, September 19, 2012

FULTON — With armed police guards stationed at each exit, a pastor-turned-atheist made a case against God yesterday at Westminster College's annual fall symposium.

"The truly good news is not that Jesus died for our sins," said Dan Barker, co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. "The truly good news is that there is no purpose of life. That's great news. If we had purpose, it would mean we are subservient to something. If we have purpose, we are secondary."

Although Barker was challenged by some during a question-and-answer session, his hourlong speech was without incident. Westminster administrators upped security at the two-day symposium on religion in light of recent events, said spokesman Rob Crouse.

"We're taking some security precautions because of the climate," he said, citing riots over an anti-Muslim film and recent bomb scares on college campuses.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/sep/19/atheist-shares-great-news-at-westminster-symposium/

"The truly good news is that there is no purpose of life."

If that was true we'd all be posting in the Lounge.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Atheist shares ‘great news’ at Westminster symposium (Original Post) rug Sep 2012 OP
So the purpose of life is... immoderate Sep 2012 #1
Annnnd, that's where I'm headed after reading that...LOL. Anyone seen MFM???..n/t monmouth Sep 2012 #3
Sigh... gcomeau Sep 2012 #2
Except Dan didn't say that. rug Sep 2012 #5
He shouldn't have to say that. gcomeau Sep 2012 #6
Hey now, the "context" argument only works if you are talking about the bible. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #10
Yes, he should have to say that. He makes a statement that is ludicrous on it's cbayer Sep 2012 #11
Is it as ludicrous on its face as a dead man being resurrected? Or the Trinity? cleanhippie Sep 2012 #12
Is anyone, besides you, talking about the Trinity in this thread? rug Sep 2012 #19
Well, it was just me until you joined in, so that makes two of us. Anyone else want in on this? cleanhippie Sep 2012 #21
No he did not. gcomeau Sep 2012 #14
Well, since neither of us heard the lecture, I assume, then we really don't know what he said. cbayer Sep 2012 #15
Both of us... gcomeau Sep 2012 #17
He shouldn't have to say anything. It's all purposeless. rug Sep 2012 #16
So you mock a purposeless life and like existentialism? Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #22
No. Existentialism is graver than what this clown says. rug Sep 2012 #27
Deliberate misunderstanding, or more evasion? mr blur Sep 2012 #25
Pull up your trousers. rug Sep 2012 #28
What is our purpose then?? Angry Dragon Sep 2012 #23
If you start with the premise that we are sentient beings, you have your pick of purposes. rug Sep 2012 #29
I am surprised that DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #4
It's the answer to the question which is not known. cbayer Sep 2012 #13
Where did the idea come from that if there is no god, there is no purpose in life? cbayer Sep 2012 #7
Oh yeah, I wonder WHERE that idea came from. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #9
Well, it IS a common argument by believers. longship Sep 2012 #26
So, was he being sarcastic? Facetious? cbayer Sep 2012 #32
Neither sarcastic nor facetious, I think. longship Sep 2012 #34
I have read quite a bit about the Clergy Project and it appears to be a positive and cbayer Sep 2012 #35
It is definitely legit and positive. longship Sep 2012 #36
I was reading about him yesterday and he has an interesting background. cbayer Sep 2012 #37
To be fair, it was only good news, not great news. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #8
Without puropse, you cannot gauge great, good or better. rug Sep 2012 #18
Says you. But it seems obvious that he meant an inherent purpose. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #20
"I'd love to see the evidence for that claim" No because love is humblebum Sep 2012 #24
It never ceases to amaze me at just how obtuse someone can be. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #33
Life is purposeless, and that's good news! Fortinbras Armstrong Sep 2012 #30
Amen. rug Sep 2012 #31
 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
2. Sigh...
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:53 PM
Sep 2012

""The truly good news is that there is no purpose of life."

If that was true we'd all be posting in the Lounge."


Not sure what tone that was supposed to have but I'm going on the assumption you were objecting to the idea there is no purpose. In which case, he was talking about a universal absolute purpose. As in, the kind people say exists because some magic super-being imposes it.

You can still assign your own purpose to your life. "Post in the Lounge" seems like a fairly trivial one but if that does it for you...

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
5. Except Dan didn't say that.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:00 PM
Sep 2012

He said: "If we had purpose, it would mean we are subservient to something. If we have purpose, we are secondary."

Yay! We're purposeless!

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
6. He shouldn't have to say that.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:27 PM
Sep 2012

It's mind numbingly obvious from the context of the *entire address*.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
11. Yes, he should have to say that. He makes a statement that is ludicrous on it's
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:57 PM
Sep 2012

face. If clarified it or explained it further, this story doesn't cover that. Since this is the only article I can find on this lecture, I am going to go with what he said.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
12. Is it as ludicrous on its face as a dead man being resurrected? Or the Trinity?
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:07 PM
Sep 2012

I agree, cbayer, the authors of the bible SHOULD have clarified or explained it further. Imagine all of the heartache and drama that could have been avoided!

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
14. No he did not.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:19 PM
Sep 2012

He made a perfectly ordinary and rather obvious observation. There is no "purpose" to our lives imposed upon us by an all powerful magical being that's in charge of everything.



To take from that that therefore you, personally, can't have any kind of purpose to your own life? That you can't just decide for yourself to adopt any purpose you like?

THAT is ludicrous on it's face.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
15. Well, since neither of us heard the lecture, I assume, then we really don't know what he said.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:33 PM
Sep 2012

The reported may have taken this completely out of context or not.

But god does not equal purpose and purpose does not equal god in most people's lives, believers or not.

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
17. Both of us...
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:55 PM
Sep 2012

...are capable of reading the subject of the lecture... which was about taking God out of the picture. It was not about removing all sense of personal volition.

What more were you needing exactly?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
16. He shouldn't have to say anything. It's all purposeless.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:54 PM
Sep 2012

Becketta at least, could say things without sounding like an idiot.

ESTRAGON:
Well? Shall we go?
VLADIMIR:
Pull on your trousers.
ESTRAGON:
What?
VLADIMIR:
Pull on your trousers.
ESTRAGON:
You want me to pull off my trousers?
VLADIMIR:
Pull ON your trousers.
ESTRAGON:
(realizing his trousers are down). True.
He pulls up his trousers.
VLADIMIR:
Well? Shall we go?
ESTRAGON:
Yes, let's go.
They do not move.

Curtain.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
25. Deliberate misunderstanding, or more evasion?
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 05:55 AM
Sep 2012

Who can tell?

And you're not Beckett, by a long way.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
29. If you start with the premise that we are sentient beings, you have your pick of purposes.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:07 AM
Sep 2012

If we are aware of others as well, we aware aware of our community. Preserving that community, and those in it, is then an obvious natural choice. We are not simply coral.

If you are a believer, then an additional purpose is to know God.

Whatever purpose you discern, the reality is not Dan's.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
7. Where did the idea come from that if there is no god, there is no purpose in life?
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:49 PM
Sep 2012

That's absurd.

longship

(40,416 posts)
26. Well, it IS a common argument by believers.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:15 AM
Sep 2012

It is one of the iconic ones non-believers commonly hear from believers. I know it's weird, but it goes like this.

A. God created the universe.
B. God's creation provides purpose for the universe.
C. Believing in God gives Humans purpose.
D. Therefore, non-believers have no purpose.

I know the progression is illogical, but that's the gist of it.

I really like Dan Barker. He is one of the most gentle and meek of the atheist activists. He is apparently a very nice guy.

I think he was merely speaking of this believer argument that professed atheists hear all the time. It's similar to the atheists cannot be moral argument, which we also hear all the time.

I would like to read the whole thing to see what he's about here.

I really like him.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
32. So, was he being sarcastic? Facetious?
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:04 AM
Sep 2012

Your take on him means something to me, as I am really not familiar with him.

I am sure there was much more substance to this than the article reflects, and, in fact, the writer might have made it over-simplistic on purpose.

longship

(40,416 posts)
34. Neither sarcastic nor facetious, I think.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:30 AM
Sep 2012

Dan Barker is one of the founders of the Clergy Project which supports clergy who no longer believe that God exists. These people are often stuck in hopeless situations. It is all they know, so they stay in the pulpit which puts them in a knotty ethical dilemma.

Barker knows about this because he was in the pulpit himself for years and understands the pain. He is a very ethical person. The portrayal is totally out of character for the Dan Barker I have heard speak on his weekly podcast and various speeches and interviews.

I think this article probably rips Barker's words out of context. It was an hour talk and they pick out this one thing. It also makes a very big deal out of the police protection. The reportage is horrible here.

(Always nice to see ya, cbayer.)


cbayer

(146,218 posts)
35. I have read quite a bit about the Clergy Project and it appears to be a positive and
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sep 2012

legitimate program.

Agree about the police protection aspect of this and how it reveals even more about the biases of this writer.

I am going to take your perspective over theirs.

Always nice to see you as well, longship.

longship

(40,416 posts)
36. It is definitely legit and positive.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:50 AM
Sep 2012

Understand that many of the Clergy Project members are closet atheists still in the pulpit. The project protects these people's identities while supporting them with general support. They even help find resources for retraining.

Who would ever have thought that such a thing would be a problem? Well, Dan Barker did as he went through it himself.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
37. I was reading about him yesterday and he has an interesting background.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 12:00 PM
Sep 2012

Looks like he tried on several different flavors of christianity before leaving it completely. He definitely has a view from the inside as well as the outside

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
8. To be fair, it was only good news, not great news.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:52 PM
Sep 2012

"The truly good news is that there is no purpose of life."


And I think he means there is no inherent purpose...

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
20. Says you. But it seems obvious that he meant an inherent purpose.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:01 PM
Sep 2012

And if you believe that humans do in fact, have an inherent purpose, I'd love to see the evidence for that claim.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
24. "I'd love to see the evidence for that claim" No because love is
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 12:57 AM
Sep 2012

nothing more than an electro-chemical reaction in the brain, as are all emotions, therefore what you think you love, like, hate, or don't like has no purpose. As a matter of fact nothing you do really has any purpose. Love and hate are really no different than flushing a toilet.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
30. Life is purposeless, and that's good news!
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:06 AM
Sep 2012

I bring you news of great joy, futilitarianism reigns! Rejoice, and be exceeding glad. Again, I say, rejoice.

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