Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumMatt Dillahunty debates Sye ten Bruggencate
For as patently stupid as the presuppositionalist argument is, it can be a real bitch to counter without a firm understanding of philosophical principals. Matt really hit this one out of the park.
And, besides being completely insane, Sye is a bit of bully. Watching him come to the realization that he may have picked the wrong guy to start a fight with is priceless.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)What's with these 'believers' that ascribe limitations to god?
I don't adnastanda...
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Or tell the truth.... or anything else.... because.....
god doesn't exist.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... starting with smug ad hominems is not a good start... even if Matt did put on a t-shirt.
Now I've been thru the opening statements and, boy!, does Matt have the upper hand. There really is no reason to listen to Sye trot out the same ol' already debunked-ages-ago word salad that I bet (but don't really know) is to come. But I'll slog thru just to hear what Matt has to say. There's always FF....
deucemagnet
(4,549 posts)Double meanings, deflection, projection, strawmen, this guy threw every weasely trick in the book at Matt, and he had none of it.
Promethean
(468 posts)Just bear it until Matt's rebuttal. This would be the 2nd time he gets to speak. It is so perfect that I nearly got out of my seat and cheered (and would have if I was at the debate). It is worth your time to listen up until that point.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Suffice it to say, Matt manages to hang up on Sye... in a debate... in person
TxDemChem
(1,918 posts)I despise presuppositionalist arguments. You really have to be prepared before stepping into one. Glad Matt was the one to handle this.
Promethean
(468 posts)His arguments are always the same poor crap and they are his own failed concoction. That is why Matt's rebuttal was pre-written but still was fully on topic and appropriate to Sye's statements.
AngryDem001
(684 posts)He's the guy who "converted" me to atheism.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I can't say I ever really believed, but it was watching Matt, Russell, Jen, Jeff, and the other regulars on the Atheist Experience that encouraged me to stop fucking around with weak-kneed labels like "agnostic" and just admit I was an atheist.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)After watching I was extremely impressed with how Matt knew how to destroy him.
Then I did a youtube search of Sye, that is when I found out Sye has a set script that he just repeats. Why would anyone debate him, he is a joke. By Matt debating him, he has given Sye credibility he does not deserve. Of course from now until the end of Sye's time on earth. All anyone who debates him has to do is replay Matt's words on a loop.
And Sye's insistance that evidence is only required in a court of law, and therefore he does not have to provide proof of god, falls on it's face when you use the bible to discredit him. In the Story of moses, god instructed moses to show proof the he was a messenger of god, by doing magic tricks. The least Sye could is a one or two magic tricks to prove god exist. I mean it's in the babble
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I tried to watch this thing through... again for the 3rd time.... and I just cannot stand it. Mainly because I am so EMBARRASSED for Sye... a grown man so sure he is right about a bunch of malarkey made in the Stone Age. I feel so bad for him, especially because he never gives up his stupidity and he thinks he is somehow strong. Pitiful!
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)but then I realized that these people already have credibility, and in their eyes, and their PR team's eyes, the reluctance to engage in a debate or other dialogue is more that there isn't a counter to their claims. And it works. It works very well. Look at global warming, people refused to give the deniers credibility by engaging them so they get to run around screaming that the sky isn't falling and no one is calling them the crazy pants that they are. Same thing with the rise of the religious right, no one said "These guys are crazy" or at least no one with credibility.
These people need someone to stand up to them and in front of an audience show that, in fact, the king of kings is wearing no clothes (Because imaginary beings don't wear clothes). Kinda like what we do here, there is little chance of changing the minds of the people we butt heads with, but there is a good chance that people will see that they are naked.