Atheists & Agnostics

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts) Mon Jun 16, 2014, 10:58 PM Jun 2014

Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia, despite state-enforced ban

EDDAH, Saudi Arabia — In this country known as the cradle of Islam, where religion gives legitimacy to the government and state-appointed clerics set rules for social behavior, a growing number of Saudis are privately declaring themselves atheists.

The evidence is anecdotal, but persistent.

“I know at least six atheists who confirmed that to me,” said Fahad AlFahad, 31, a marketing consultant and human rights activist. “Six or seven years ago, I wouldn’t even have heard one person say that. Not even a best friend would confess that to me.”

A Saudi journalist in Riyadh has observed the same trend.

“The idea of being irreligious and even atheist is spreading because of the contradiction between what Islamists say and what they do,” he said."

*“I believe people started being fed up with how religion is really controlling their life and how only one interpretation of religion should be followed,” said activist Fahad AlFahad."

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/12/atheism_explodes_in_saudi_arabia_where_just_talking_about_atheism_is_illegal_partner/

14 replies

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Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia, despite state-enforced ban (Original Post) damnedifIknow Jun 2014 OP

Oh, I wish there'd be a significant explosion in the U.S. nt valerief Jun 2014 #1

There has been. Promethean Jun 2014 #2

Have you looked at the religion in America polls lately? ShadowLiberal Jun 2014 #9

I've seen some of the polls. I also recall decades ago when I had to fill out valerief Jun 2014 #11

I knew someone who would fill out those forms like this: Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #12

Then there's the Saudi visa form... onager Jun 2014 #13

Social media is a big influence. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #3

Hmm trotsky Jun 2014 #5

"Working as intended" AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #7

Bingo. trotsky Jun 2014 #8

Favorite quote; "Religion is regarded by the common people as true...... A HERETIC I AM Jun 2014 #14

Well, that's some good news for a change. progressoid Jun 2014 #4

The first outspoken atheist I knew IRL was raised a Muslim Warpy Jun 2014 #6

I think this is us... onager Jun 2014 #10

valerief

(53,235 posts)

1. Oh, I wish there'd be a significant explosion in the U.S. nt

Reply to damnedifIknow (Original post)

Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:01 PM

Jun 2014

Promethean

(468 posts)

2. There has been.

Reply to valerief (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:25 AM

Jun 2014

That is why the religionists are becoming louder and more aggressive. If it seems disproportionate it is because we aren't just a negation of some small piece of their dogma like homosexuality. We are a negation of the entirety of their dogma.

ShadowLiberal

(2,237 posts)

9. Have you looked at the religion in America polls lately?

Reply to valerief (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:47 PM

Jun 2014

You should look up those comprehensive religion in America studies they do every 5 or 10 years. There have been a lot more atheists and other 'no religion' people who don't identify as Atheists or Agnostics. I believe as much as a third of Vermont said they were Atheists/Agnostics/belonged to no religion in their last poll. I think at least 10% of the country falls under one of the categories now of Atheists/Agnostic/no religion.

By comparison, some of their oldest polls put the numbers of Atheists & Agnostics at 1 or 2 percent of the population.

valerief

(53,235 posts)

11. I've seen some of the polls. I also recall decades ago when I had to fill out

Reply to ShadowLiberal (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:29 PM

Jun 2014

forms and it asked for religion, I'd put down the one I was raised in, even though I was an atheist. I couldn't have been the only person who did that. Polls give the religion the people were raised in, not whether they're believers, so there may be well more atheists than the polls show. It's still not enough. People get duped by government because of religion. If you can believe in religion, you can believe anything.

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)

12. I knew someone who would fill out those forms like this:

Reply to valerief (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 18, 2014, 01:09 PM

Jun 2014

Religion? No thank you

onager

(9,356 posts)

13. Then there's the Saudi visa form...

Reply to Arugula Latte (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 18, 2014, 02:37 PM

Jun 2014

With a box for "Religion" that cannot be left blank. Your visa won't be processed if you don't enter a religion.

I don't think anybody would be dumb enough to write "atheist." That's not the real reason for the requirement anyway. It's there to weed out anybody dumb enough to write "Jewish."

Jews are not allowed to visit Saudi Arabia for any reason. (Again, so much for that Kumbaya "People of the Book" bullshit.)

The Saudis try to explain this away with concerns about Israeli spies visiting.

Which was proven bogus as recently as March of this year. The Jerusalem Post reporter Michael Winer was supposed to cover Obama's trip to Saudi Arabia. The Saudis denied Winer a visa, even though he's an American citizen, not Israeli. But he is Jewish.

The Saudis are probably still butt-hurt about a hilarious and embarrassing incident in the 1980s. A young, attractive Arab woman popped up in Jeddah and started hanging out/partying with the younger Saudi royalty. That woman was, in fact, Jewish. She wrote a tell-all book about the young Saudi wastrels and their fondness for sex, drugs, porn, rock-and-roll, etc.

And when I needed a Saudi visa? In the "Religion" box, I just put "Protestant." Since I'm always protesting about religion. It worked.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

3. Social media is a big influence.

Reply to damnedifIknow (Original post)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:28 AM

Jun 2014

Hypocrisy live streamed on your mobile device.

The perception that atheism is no longer a taboo subject — at least two Gulf-produced television talk shows recently discussed it — may explain why the government has made talk of atheism a terrorist offense. The March 7 decree from the Ministry of Interior prohibited, among other things, “calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based.”

The number of people willing to admit to friends to being atheist or to declare themselves atheist online, usually under aliases, is certainly not big enough to be a movement or threaten the government. A 2012 poll by WIN-Gallup International of about 500 Saudis found that 5 percent described themselves as “convinced atheist.” This was well below the global average of 13 percent.

But the greater willingness to privately admit to being atheist reflects a general disillusionment with religion and what one Saudi called “a growing notion” that religion is being misused by authorities to control the population. This disillusionment is seen in a number of ways, ranging from ignoring clerical pronouncements to challenging and even mocking religious leaders on social media.

Now in Saudi Arabia just talking about atheism is a terrorist offense.

The Dominionists would pee all over themselves if they accomplished that here.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

5. Hmm

Reply to beam me up scottie (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:43 AM

Jun 2014

what one Saudi called “a growing notion” that religion is being misused by authorities to control the population.

Hate to break this to them, but that's not a misuse of religion at all. To the contrary, looking at its history, that is EXACTLY what it is used for.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

7. "Working as intended"

Reply to trotsky (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:43 AM

Jun 2014

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

8. Bingo.

Reply to AtheistCrusader (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:44 AM

Jun 2014

Can't have atheists out there *gasp* QUESTIONING things.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,366 posts)

14. Favorite quote; "Religion is regarded by the common people as true......

Reply to trotsky (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:47 PM

Jun 2014

By the wise as false and by the rulers as useful"

Attributed to Roman Philosopher Seneca the Younger

progressoid

(49,983 posts)

4. Well, that's some good news for a change.

Reply to damnedifIknow (Original post)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:34 AM

Jun 2014

Warpy

(111,245 posts)

6. The first outspoken atheist I knew IRL was raised a Muslim

Reply to damnedifIknow (Original post)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:26 AM

Jun 2014

He was a Palestinian Arab kid I went to high school with.

It didn't go over well in a sea of Southern Baptists, so he and I got out of there like we got shot out of cannons. I ended up in Boston. He joined Black September.

onager

(9,356 posts)

10. I think this is us...

Reply to damnedifIknow (Original post)

Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:25 PM

Jun 2014

From one of the umpteen online Korans:

Sura 5:33
Those who wage war against God and His Messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternate hand and foot or banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the Hereafter...

Jeez, we get a choice? Let's see - crucifixion, amputation or banishment from Saudi Arabia. Yep, that would be a real hard decision to make.

When I lived in Saudi Arabia, I was told that nowadays crucifixion is mostly reserved for highway robbers. So I guess they're well on the way to a more tolerant and enlightened society and stuff.

Oh look! Those Western Kumbayists for Islam, who are always gushing about Xians and Jews being "People of the Book?" And all believers in some sort of a god are way cool, much better than those grumps with no religion? Well, they may be in for a surprise:

Sura 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them. This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people.

Keep in mind that this stuff is not just "a basis for sha'ria law," this stuff IS sha'ria law. The Koran is the law and vice-versa.

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