2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMichigan results do not bode well for Hillary
In November. Yes, many of the upcoming primaries are closed and will likely go her way. But as I and many others have been saying she is not going over well with Independent voters... paricularly blue collar working class voters. There's still time to turn this ship around Democrats...
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Biggest single step fall on earth if she's the Party's candidate come November.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)If she is the nominee the only way we win is if a brokered Republican convention denies it to Trump.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)It may be the only thing that saves the country from the selfish fools who run it.
earthside
(6,960 posts)Those independents with a conservative tilt, I suppose.
So, even if Trump is the Repuglican nominee, he may very well pull independents better than Clinton.
Sanders has that appeal to independents that is necessary for Democrats to win in November.
Clinton is a hack, partisan Democrat and not a very inspiring one at that.
So, perhaps now some serious Democrats will begin to understand that Clinton is a very flawed candidate and that independents are important (as they are in Michigan) and they will start reevaluating this leeming-like following of Hillary off the cliff.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)He is pulling people who SHOULD be voting for Democrats. That should be setting off SCREAMING alarm bells for the Democratic Party.
BeyondGeography
(39,351 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Outside of hardcore Democratic circles she is not popular. Yes she can win the Primary but I am increasingly convinced that if she does the only way she wins in November is with a complete Republican meltdown. I don't see that happening. I'm thinking Trump is going to win the repuke nomination outright.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)She's had every conceivable advantage in this race-- just like last time-- and she STILL can't sew it up.
It's easy to forget what a hill Obama had to climb in that race now, but man... think about it. She lost the presidential nomination to a black man with a name that recalled our two biggest bogeymen of the day. In the US, that's about like losing to a Frenchman named Adolph Bieber Manson.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)In a state like Michigan should be a huge wake-up call to Democrats holding fast to Hillary. And a huge wake-up call about the direction the Democratic Party has taken in the past few decades.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)change her stance on SLAAP lawsuits or she is going to feel the Bern in Ohio and Pennsylvania.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Is if those primaries are not open like Michigan's. Which doesn't save her I'm the General Election.
Jarqui
(10,122 posts)hop on another ship ...
Independents like Hillary Clinton less than in 2008
Compare that to Quinnipiac's polling from this year. Between March 2015 and December, Clinton's net favorability -- those viewing her favorably minus those viewing her unfavorably -- sank from plus-3 among all voters to negative-8, an 11-point change. But among independents, that figure went from +4 to -27, a swing of 31 points.
We've seen that in poll after poll after poll. Outside of the Democratic party, people do not like or trust her. Those are the simple and blunt facts.
When you get the members of the people who lost loved ones in Benghazi howling in the media that Hillary lied to them, that's not good.
When folks want to see her emails and she has 31,000 of them deleted before anyone can see them ... that's not good.
When she has a press conference to present her side of the emails and makes four points that the media easily pokes holes in like she had her server at home because of Bill's emails but video surfaces of Bill saying he never emails .. etc. That's not good - she's caught in more lies.
Clinton Foundation gets subpoenaed for info on donors who the State Department helped during Hillary's watch ... that's not good.
Whose fault is all of that? Not the GOP's. It's Hillary's. The GOP had a hand in hurting her numbers with the Benghazi hearings but the above or even the lies today about where Bernie stood on the auto bailout. People outside of the party are fed up with this crap.
It's like the boy who cried "Wolf!" ... many folks outside of the party have tuned her out, sick of the constant dishonesty. She's not going to change many minds between now and November. She is what she is - a dishonest politician who attracts scandals and has a bunch of democrats who like her but not many outside of the party.
SDJay
(1,089 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Whoever the nominee is will need to capture Independants in November. Bernie does, Hillary doesn't.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Hillary can only pull it out with a complete Republican Party implosion and that's looking less and less likely.