2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo The Headline Today Is Not 'Bernie Understands The Electorate' But...
it is 'Hillary Misunderstood The Electorate'. Instead of giving Bernie the lead - they again put their focus on Hillary.
And it still pisses me off that they count the Supers when they show the delegate count. Take them out of the equation and this race is close.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Hillary extended her delegate lead last night.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)and too bad there are so many primaries left to decide the outcome...
we are barely into the second quarter...not necessarily a good point in the game to declare victory...
your math is the same math that is supposed to show HRC is unbeatable...we have a long way to go and you might end up being correct in the end but you sure as hell aren't correct right now...
oh yeah, she has all those supers, doesn't she...why don't you predict which way they will go if, by some result, HRC doesn't have the most 'elected' delegates come convention time....
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)its not a huge lead with all the delegates still left, and its not the increase she was hoping for.
dragonfly301
(399 posts)approximately 200,000 people voted in Mississippi and 36 delegates were awarded. Approximately 1.2 mil people voted in Michigan (6x Mississippi) and only 130 delgates. Seems like Mississippi was given more delegates than it deserves.
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)what the current popular vote is?
dragonfly301
(399 posts)I don't think we'll ever know because the caucus states weren't giving out the raw vote # - or at least I remember Iowa not giving it out.
jcgoldie
(11,582 posts)kracer20
(199 posts)Michigan has nearly 10 million, and Mississippi has around 3 million.
Source: I looked it up last night.
dragonfly301
(399 posts)If it's tied to population, it may explain why it's so damn hard to get a real liberal elected. We're letting states with more republicans than democrats choose our nominees. The whole election process needs to be fixed - especially the caucuses - what a mess!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)there is a formula somewhere that explains it. i know it has something to do with how they vote in a ge, which is why red states have fewer delegates. also, maybe michigan turnout was higher than average?
vdogg
(1,384 posts)Due to proportionality, Bernie could win most of the rest of the state's 50-48 and still lose on pledged delegates alone. The math doesn't work in his favor.
dragonfly301
(399 posts)vdogg
(1,384 posts)But so long as she leads in pledged delegates, the Super delegates will stay with her and she'll get the nomination. The only way for Bernie to win is to get the Supers to abandon Hillary. The ONLY way they will do this is if she is actually behind in pledged delegates. This is an unlikely scenario. Bernie has to run the table with at least 55% of the vote in the remaining states. Even with this big upset, he failed to hit that target.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)has some very favorable states coming up. he won 50/48 in a state he was supposed to lose by 20+.
when we get to states that actually favor him, it will get caught up quick
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)And only had it for a minute. And now poised to lose 3 states and even things up or even have Bernie lead. And no super delegates don't count till the convention so it's obvious CNN is trying to cheat Hillary in and guess what...people don't like cheats. They don't like the establishment trying to thwart the will of the people like they used to do in communist countries. It's an embarrassment that I'm surprised that our colleagues are participating in. I guess ethics only apply to the other guy or in hypothetical situations. When given the opportunity many people are willing to sell their soul. Watch the popular vote go to Bernie easily.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Trump will probably wrap things up next Tuesday. At that point, he will pivot and concentrate his attacks on Hillary. You've had your idealistic fun, now it's time to get serious. This isn't a game.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)she'd be foolish not to be uneasy about the large numbers predicted for her in places like Michigan simply not panning out and also about the tiny turnouts in her winning States where she's supposed to be so compelling to voters who are massively excited about her. Under 223,000 total voters in the Mississippi primary. Total. Where she's supposed to be a draw, she's not a draw. Where she's supposed to have a 20% margin, she loses.
The morning after a day that starts with 'She has it locked' and ends with a loss is a good morning to reconsider the hubris. Because this isn't a game. That hubris is part of what happened in Michigan.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)It's a game to Hillsry and her BUDDY Trump. Just like she is an honorary, self-declared member of the Bush family we cannot trust her and Bernie fairs better against Trump than her. She's simply to fake and the majority of people don't trust her. In case you haven't noticed, after being lied to and flip-flopped on by every president after Carter the people demand TRUST first. Because it matters little what they say if they aren't true. Your comment makes me sad for this country.
Nitram
(22,663 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,070 posts)angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Maybe there is something in the water?
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Duh
dragonfly301
(399 posts)"we misunderstood the electorate" and thought that's exactly what's wrong with her. She tries to read the electorate and become what she thinks they want instead of being genuine and telling people what she believes in. I have been following the Clintons for decades and don't have a clue what they actually believe in other than themselves. Bernie has had the consistency of his convictions his entire life - not everyone will agree with him on every issue - but we all know what he stands for.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)change depending upon which group he talks to.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)is really what she's saying.
The reality: people here don't like her policies. It doesn't matter if she "understands us as voters." It matters what impact her policies have on our lives.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)What does that have to do with anything. She means she should've told them a different story? Wow. She just admits she tells stories.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)until it sells, Hillary.
Nitram
(22,663 posts)On guns, African Americans, LGBT issues, and the Middle East, to name a few examples. It is the way democracy and campaigning works. No harm, no foul. The voters push the candidates in the directions they are interested in. If the candidates don't listen, they don't get votes. Welcome to democracy, Thyme.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)welcome to sarcasm and pandering, Nitram.
Nitram
(22,663 posts)The LGBT issue is perhaps the best example. No sarcasm, no pandering, just stating the facts.
eridani
(51,907 posts)When did he say that marriage is between a man and a woman?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)link, please, to support your claim that Bernie reversed on LGBT.
Hillary:
Marriage was a sacred bond between "a man and a woman" until it wasn't
TPP was "the gold standard" before it wasn't
Was for single payer until she wasn't
Pick an issue, other than unprovoked wars of aggression, which is the one issue that she consistently, steadfastly, without doubts, reservations or concerns for the consequences, favors.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)while Hillary promoted it, still claims it was a defensive move which is just a total lie. She spent 20 years clearly and loudly opposing marriage equality and she gave specific reasons including her opinion that God does not want happy couples, including claims of superiority for straight couples like her and Bill when we all know their marriage is not some divine sparkling perfection. She berated LGBT, she worked against our equality.
That's who you support. As a gay man, I support Bernie Sanders, always with me. How did I get to know about Bernie Sanders? From Jesse Jackson way back in the 80's when Bernie and Jesse were among the only political people who wanted LGBT votes and who wanted to be our champions.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Just a fact.
Nitram
(22,663 posts)http://www.politicususa.com/2016/01/23/no-bernie-sanders-the-pioneer-marriage-equality.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/28/us/politics/as-gay-rights-ally-bernie-sanders-wasnt-always-in-vanguard.html?_r=0
http://americablog.com/2015/10/is-bernie-sanders-exaggerating-gay-rights-record.html
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)This is reversing a stance:
Nitram
(22,663 posts)He votes against DOMA because he felt it was an issue that the states should decide individually. Do little research. You'll find it's a fact. But I fault neither candidate for changing their stances. that's how a democracy works, and I'm glad for it.
Don't you think you were a little hard on me back there? I didn't say anything mean, did I? ("welcome to sarcasm and pandering, Nitram."
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)1. it was a new issue that needed some thought, and
2. he wasn't ready to take on that battle at that point in time.
That's not a flip-flop, and certainly not one done for the sole purpose of winning elections.
You said something disingenuous. And now, I'm done because real life is calling. Over and out.
Nitram
(22,663 posts)...in the post I first responded to. Then you moved the goalposts and changed it to "reverse". Can't you acknowledge that my points were clear, reasonable and factual and you were off base calling me sarcastic and pandering?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... to be a headline writer, that is.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"She could walk away with ALL of the delegates for BOTH states! DEVASTATING to Bernie's chances."
In Novemeber:
"Bernie's window of opportunity is closing more and more every day."
Then you added all of this:
" I don't like him at all. Early on I was in the either-or camp. I ended up choosing Hilary, because I thought she'd have a better chance in the general election. But the more I listened, and the more I read, not just to his supporters but to Bernie himself, the more I began to truly dislike him.
Almost everything about him grates on my nerves. I don't find him to be endearing, or charming, just gruff, abrupt, abrasive and annoying. Except for the angry voters who are already in Bernie's camp, it's difficult for me to imagine how any of the rest of the voters would find him to be an appealing candidate. To me he seems to be very one dimensional, and not ready for everything that the presidency requires."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251841413
So you are working the headlines, showing your cards, letting us know how fully biased you are well in advance.....plus you use Emoticons generously which always indicates a sterling wit and profound intellectual grasp on the subject at hand.
jcgoldie
(11,582 posts)the race is still not close.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)SuperTuesday Part Deux with conservative, mostly southern states for one reason: to block liberal candidates from ever gaining even a toehold. It was done deliberately after McGovern was crushed in the general.
By staying viable through March, Bernie is breaking their game.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)A mere bagatelle, a frivolity, a triviality, akin to wearing sneakers to a formal dinner.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)It made me really mad. They were interviewing voters in a depressed suburb who were lamenting that they did not like Hillary or Trump, and didn't even mention that there are still other options on both sides.
jeepers
(314 posts)Does anybody think it would be a smart move for the super delegates in a democratic contest to support a candidate who only wins in states that will, without a doubt, go republican come the GE?
Does anybody believe that the red southern states are going to choose Hillary or any democrat over any republican?
I would suggest that the next time someone brags on Hillarys super delegate count or her delegate lead for that matter we remind them that none of the states She has won in the landslide that gave her that delegate lead will vote for her come the General.
Let us imagine then that in the remaining states Bernie and Hillary tie and Bernies delegate count only keeps pace, does not gain, perhaps even falls slightly behind Hillarys. Will Hillarys delegate landslide in the red states convince the supers to throw in with Hillary? Or, will the supers, realizing that Hill cannot win the southern states and that her delegate lead from those state is a false indicator of her electability and throw in with Bernie.
I know we are not talking about it but seems that with the red states viability in mind , Hillary is going to have to pull off some major blue state landslides to give her delegate count meaning otherwise I believe the supers will break for Bernie.