are screwing her because the indies are really conservative and don't want her to win the primary.

There may be some people like that, but not hundreds of thousands.

It shouldn't be a surprise given that every Sanders position is extremely popular among average citizens, but nobody within the political or media establishment has dared to say that out loud.

the centrist turn the Democratic party has taken in recent years. Certainly I know a LOT of people on Facebook who are seriously liberal/progressive but can't stand the Dems. A lot of these are "the both parties are the same" crowd that drives me crazy. But nonetheless, it is a not insignificant group. I know a lot of people would not have voted in the primary in they didn't have Bernie as an option.

And I only registered as a Dem (again) in order to vote for Bernie. I left the Dems 9 years ago because I was tired of the conservative push.

Conservatives had this idea that not joining the Republican Party proved they were unbiased people who voted after giving careful, intelligent thought to the issues. So the Democratic Party was 50% larger than the Republican Party despite our elections being an even split. When someone said, "I'm an Independant, but..." it was pretty much guaranteed that you were about to hear an extreme Rightist rant.

Over the past 30 years, the DLC takeover of the Democratic Party has driven a lot of rank-and-file Democrats out of the Party. So there are now a lot of Liberal Independants.

The Third Way is still running like it's 1980. One of the signposts of a Conservative is their inability to change with the time. They probably have not even noticed that the two parties are now the same size and that this must mean a lot of Liberals have abandoned the Party.

stupid state laws force open primaries. Makes no sense whatsoever.

who that party's nominee is; this seems an eminently reasonable position.

The Democrats put up their candidate and the Republicans put up their candidate. Any other small party can put up candidates but they are ignored, or don't have the money to cover the 50 states registration fees. We are talking about having a choice of only black and white, when there are all sorts of colors in the background that we are shut out from even finding out about.

Until all candidates are on an even keel, nominees from both Democratic and Republican parties should have open primaries. That is the only fair way to get someone elected that will govern the ENTIRE population, not just members of a party.

Z

if we had a realistic choice of more than 2 parties. As it is, third party candidates have almost zero chance in national elections. What you are suggesting would necessarily require everyone to just go along with the party line as dictated by party insiders if they want to be part of the political process. That is not democracy.

Should they not be allowed to have a primary or caucus? Should they be forced to make everyone declare a party affiliation?

With, I'm assuming, the hope they can actually win one. But yeah it's soooooo stupid that we let the people we want to vote for our candidate in the general provide any input on who they would actually like to vote for.


Also, why can't the company I work for just let us engineers decide what we want to build instead of asking stupid customers what they would be interested in buying? THEY don't work here. Geeez...

You do realize that it is far better to move the independents to your position than it is to try to position yourself for the independents. Don't you?

It is really the very essence of transformative politics. FDR did it for the good of the nation by changing the way people looked at government and the power of people. Reagan did it for ill by elevating or raising the power of corporations above all else.

Getting angry about independents that seem to favor candidates to the LEFT of your chosen candidate might not be the most awful thing in the world. You might want to at least consider that perspective.

So if they threaten to withhold votes, still no chance. Threats of not voting are juvenile.

Many of those who are classified independent are those of the base who left disenfranchised after the 3rd Way took over or they are would-be Dems in a time of the 3rd Way running things so they passed. I argue those are sizable numbers.
After that, there are legit Indies who like him as well.

I originally registered as a Democrat, back when I was a wide-eyed 18-year-old. The cliche' "I didn't leave the party, it left me" is perfectly applicable to my situation. I'm a socialist (democratic socialist in terms of what I actually advocate for the real world..."pure" socialism is more my hypothetical ideal). The party's stumbling journey to the center-right abandoned me. I've been registered independent for years, although I made an exception this primary season to vote for Bernie when Oregon's closed primary rolls around. That'll change the day after the primary.

I'd come back to the party...but it has to come back to me, come back to a genuinely leftist platform, before I'll do that.

Hillary, however, has similar problems convincing not one, but two huge voter categories: young voters and independents. Bernie's problem makes things very difficult for him in the primary. Hillary's problem makes things virtually impossible for her in the GE. If I were a Democratic Party loyalist (which I'm not...I'm an independent progressive), I know which problem I'd rather have.

to mobilize people to vote. All I have listened to is millennials are too busy texting,
black Americans will not ever feel the Bern, WS transcripts are a right wing demand. Past
trade deals are not her fault. Independents don't like her..their response? WHATEVER.


If she tries to Brock her way to another smear level, that will inspire the Independents
who already don't trust her to vote for her..I am sure. lol

Seriously speaking, she will try and be conciliatory and a little more like Bernie, we're
on the same side..trust me..blah blah blah. Just don't look at my record. lol

I know they are complaining bitterly about the open primaries.

NO ONE can win the general election without strong support from the Independents, who, after all, make up a third of the electorate.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/180440/new-record-political-independents.aspx

Even more than I thought.

Although, that does track stated affiliations, rather than registration, if I read it correctly. And there are several states which don't register by party affiliation at all.

I register as a Democrat myself. For the first fifteen or so years of my voting life I registered Independent, because I didn't give any thought to the primary process. Then it finally dawned on me that the primaries likewise mattered, so I became a Democrat, which is where my heart totally lies.

Are imagining there is some way they can overcome her trust deficit and awful record in November. With Trump stealing blue collar working class malcontents and many Independents furious at an unresponsive government I see no way that can happen.

I am uncomfortable with any effort to suppress voting.

Americans may talk selfish, but have liberal instincts

a great many ex-Dems are sick of a party that's been turned into a giant machine that purges anyone left of Franco, blames voters for its constant and jaw-dropping failures, is full of gleeful flunkies and cyberbullies that tell you to vote for nothing and be grateful just for the opportunity, sells jobs down the river and determines social issues by the polls, threatens us with Republicans and then pops the champagne with Bain and the NRA; it's a party whose remaining voters are those largely okay with lies and corruption

it's a perfect vacuum

and has little to do with who the democratic nominee is

It has a great deal to do with who the Democratic nominee is.

This seems to me to be a very straightforward, and very important, number. I can't seem to find it reported anywhere. Anyone seen it?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx

26% Republican
29% Democrat
42% Independent

Pretty tough to win an election between two people with only 29% of the vote. Most of the 42% vote for someone.

That is why Bernie does better against Republicans ... because he does much better with Independents than Hillary does.