2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumYoung voters reject Hillary Clinton
So she should run on her husband's record instead!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110768247
So much for her superior qualifications. She's not getting the youth support because the youngsters don't understand how good her husband or Obama were!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Desperate times indeed!
ladjf
(17,320 posts)tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)have a 24 hour news channel?
djean111
(14,255 posts)they read about the effects of fracking, even if not involved directly. They look up issues like the Middle East, wars, and ISIS. They are not charmed by Bill. They now have ACA plans which in some cases are too expensive to actually use.
The young voters are the ones who would have to go to war. It is their skin in the game. What do they hear from Hillary? - shaving a whole $2000 off the lengthy life of a student loan. Increased H-1B visas. They SEE that she triangulates everything, they know an evasive answer when they hear one, believe me.
The good stuff is not "trickling down" for them. when a young bagger at the grocery store asks me if I have heard about the TPP, and is angry about it - guess what? The young voters are not interested in carefully curated history. THIS is the world they live in, they are not moved by campaign blather, they look stuff up.
tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)Indeed they do! Just like we taught them!
"Dad? How do you spell (insert word)?"
"Look it up, son. You need to learn how to do your own research. This is the most basic example of that."
"Awww man, why can't you just tell me?"
"Because I want you to be able to do it on your own. It's important."
"Oh man. O.K." (pouting)
20 years later:
"Thanks, Dad. You were right."
"You're welcome, son. I love you."
ejbr
(5,852 posts)I'm still trying to figure out why my demographic believes she is so much better than Sanders that she gets these lopsided wins. I have my theory, and if true, is sad to think about.
djean111
(14,255 posts)There is more to me than being a woman. My actual beliefs and observations and wants and needs are not driven by my gender. Yet I am supposed to vote "with the women". Nope. As a person.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)I'm thinking that the CBC being virtually immune from press criticism and being solidly in Hillary's camp might have something to do with it.
ejbr
(5,852 posts)None exclusive and they may only be minimal as many AA voters may not be affected by these things:
1. Bill's appearance on Arsenio with a sax. He broke down a racial barrier
2 Jocelyn Elders as Surgeon General; more barriers.
3. When he left office in 2000, he opened office in Harlem (I am still floored by this and I'm voting for Bernie)
4. First opportunity to show Bill that Monica was not such a big deal (it's not like he traded hostages for weapons with Iran)
5. As a group, we can identify with the unfair subjugation of women and want to do our part to make it right.
Basically, they feel like family to us as they showed others our worth.
Again, this is just my hypothesis.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)It has seemed to me that the AA voters connection is strongest with Bill and Hillary's is more by association with him. Hillary serving in Obama's cabinet to repair the damage from the 2008 primary campaign had to be huge.
tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)I hesitate to ask this important question as I want to respect our AA brothers and sisters and respect what ever their decisions are. I see way too much questioning of the AA Clinton supporter's intelligence and I think it's disrespectful, condescending and insulting. After all, I'm a white guy and have no experience being treated as poorly as I see them treated on a daily basis. If I could walk a mile in your shoes I too might have a totally different opinion. Thank you again.
ejbr
(5,852 posts)Your observations are important as unfair assumptions does no one any good. My theory is based on my own experience and not on any communication with others which has me offer it with trepidation
Svafa
(594 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 9, 2016, 03:14 PM - Edit history (2)
basically been running a national campaign since the 90s. As soon as she left the WH as FLOTUS, Clinton had her sights set on a path to the presidency. African Americans make up a significant and reliable voting bloc for the Democratic party; the Clintons are savvy politicians and know that well. They have been actively campaigning for the AA vote for decades. Their detractors see it as pandering, the people she is speaking to see it as relationship building. And it is easy to understand why: it's been going on for years and years. I don't believe that there is a single thing the Clintons do publicly that isn't politically motivated, but when you have someone meeting with leaders and visiting churches in your community for decades, of course that's going to foster at least some degree of trust. After the Civil Rights movement, Sanders quietly went to work in Vermont, consistently supporting legislation that would benefit African Americans and opposing legislation that would screw them over, but I don't believe he really had the intention of running a national campaign, so he didn't really actively campaign in the African American community. I see this as the Clintons being pure politicians, but I can understand how African Americans would be drawn to someone who, though her motives may be questionable, does at least feign real concern by making a presence in AA communities and meeting with prominent AA leaders. I think Michigan showed that AAs aren't a single monolithic group though, and younger African Americans are probably a bit more cynical, like younger people in general.
ejbr
(5,852 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)I am always more impressed when I see somebody did something out of the public eye and not potentially for personal benefit (like Sanders at the University of Chicago and during his political career even as he was representing a largely white constituency), but you have to look harder to find that out.
I was very encouraged to see Bernie do better with AAs in Michigan last night. He couldn't keep losing by the deep South margins and have any chance to win the nomination.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Is one of the reasons she's tanking with so many people.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)I feel dirty
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)Probably should have put a warning up. Hopefully a simple shower will fix you up and not a full blown decontamination!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)With prison industry douceurs thrown in as well, and some "superpredators" remarks as cherries on top?
Good luck with that. Have a dream? Have a nightmare, rather.
tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)Also, she wants it both ways as do her supporters. On the one hand, she's not Bill and shouldn't be held accountable for his blunders (Even if she lobbied on his behalf) but on the other she should be given full credit for the good works he did as POTUS. In my view, she was a mediocre Senator gifted a seat in a solid blue state and a terrible SoS that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in Libya and Honduras. Throw in the Iraq war she voted for and it's millions considering today's ME situation. Ugh.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)In may not have been her intention, but it certainly speaks of her naivity, and failure to lead, and impaired judgement.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)They loved anything that got their kids out of the house and off our rears! They would have donated to Sen Sanders just because of that! Seriously, I love this youth awakening and he gets all the credit. I really believe, win or lose, this is just the beginning and Sen Sanders will be seen as the catalyst.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)They are the lifeblood of a successful campaign and don't subscribe to:
What do we want? ... Incremental change.
When do we want it? ... In due time.
tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)No We Can't!
What also gets my goat is that many of the Pragmatic Ones here are old enough to remember JFK challenging America to go to the moon. We were also pretty well educated on the Depression and WWI II as we had older relatives that lived it if not our parents. The challenges we faced as a country were seconded only to victories we won over coming those challenges. It's frigging inspiring!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That's one upside to the modern culture of artificialness; Yeah, we're surrounded by fake shit, by fraudulent shit, by scripted everything. But we're still human, we're still intelligent, and all that this constant exposure does, is heighten our awareness of when someone is trying to fake us out or deceive us.
It's especially blatant when it's someone who, quite frankly, doesn't understand the modern world. Not to be ageist or something, but I don't think Clinton "gets" the ramifications of the internet, and a generational culture that grew up with it. She seems to still be working on the old idea that fact-checking is a long process, and not something you can do with one free finger and a google app.
Clinton comes off as a very phony person. Not only that but she very clearly, very blatantly, values our concerns far behind practically everything else. She's not invested in our votes, so why the fuck should we invest our votes in her?