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angrychair

(8,691 posts)
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:21 PM Mar 2016

Independents

In far to many states registered Independents are king in politics. In every swing state this is a solid fact: you don't win a swing state without carrying a majority of independents.
Enter a middle America state like Michigan. Sanders carried Independents over HRC by 43 points (71/28)
We will learn more as we progress but Sanders has carried independents even in states he has lost to HRC. In South Carolina, Sanders carried Independents by 7 points (53/46)

In Massachusetts, Sanders carried independents by 33 points (66/33)

The point I am making is that while you may win a lot of states or even a whole Democratic Party nomination without Independents, you do not win General Elections without carrying a lot of Independents.


9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Independents (Original Post) angrychair Mar 2016 OP
CNN MI exit poll... tk2kewl Mar 2016 #1
But isn't she the only electable one? n/t revbones Mar 2016 #2
guy i know on the train still thinks that too tk2kewl Mar 2016 #3
Hillbot brain-washing was pretty effective in its day... ;) n/t revbones Mar 2016 #4
Why are people assuming that independents who vote Dem in the primary won't vote Dem in the GE? LonePirate Mar 2016 #5
Certainly many will. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #6
Many is vague. Do you care to quantify it? LonePirate Mar 2016 #7
Nope. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #8
Past performance says she won't angrychair Mar 2016 #9
 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
1. CNN MI exit poll...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016
Independent Voters

[div style="font-weight:bold;display:table-row;width:100%"][div style="display:table-cell;text-align:center;padding:5px;width: 71%;background-color:rgb(0,0,255);color:white"]Bernie 71%
[div style="display:table-cell;text-align:center;padding:5px;width:28%;background-color:red;color:white"]Hillary 28%

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
3. guy i know on the train still thinks that too
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:57 PM
Mar 2016

even though he says Bernie's policies align much better with his own

LonePirate

(13,415 posts)
5. Why are people assuming that independents who vote Dem in the primary won't vote Dem in the GE?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 02:46 PM
Mar 2016

While some independents may truly favor an outsider no matter what, if they have other reasons for voting Dem in the primary, then those reasons will likely prevail in the GE and they will vote Dem again. There is no basis in reality to assume that every (or even most) independent Sanders primary voter will defect to the Repubs in November given how they are in opposition to Bernie on almost everything.

Yes, some independent voters will switch; but certainly not 75% or more of them, especially if Trump is the Repub nominee. Most independents don't hate Hillary nearly as much as DU's Bernie supporters hate her.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
6. Certainly many will.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 02:51 PM
Mar 2016

With such a massive gap, however, it stands to reason that there will be a good number of those independents who will not vote for Hillary, regardless. Progressive independents will often find her too conservative to ever vote for. Some moderate independents will have voted for Bernie as an outsider, and are more likely to switch to Trump, another outsider. Obviously there is no party loyalty motivation, as there often is with Democrats who prefer a candidate other than the nominee.

LonePirate

(13,415 posts)
7. Many is vague. Do you care to quantify it?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 02:57 PM
Mar 2016

I suspect what you consider to be many is quite different from how I would quantify that same number of people. I certainly don't think anywhere near a majority of Sanders' independent primary votes will switch parties in the GE.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
8. Nope.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 03:05 PM
Mar 2016

I'm not comfortable with citing a percentage on that...just not enough data to make any such empirical speculation useful. That is, I could probably cite a range of percentages into which I think it will almost certainly fall, but it would be too wide for any real utility. I do this general sort of thing for a living (not polling, philosophy of science), and even in a totally informal discussion, tossing numbers around that are based largely on my gut feeling gives me the heebie-jeebies!

I will say I agree that it's not likely to be a majority (barring any developments that might further alienate Bernie-inclined independents to an even greater degree).

angrychair

(8,691 posts)
9. Past performance says she won't
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 03:55 PM
Mar 2016

Well there is this analysis:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/26/independents-like-hillary-clinton-less-than-in-2008/


Based on the links I already provided and the information on her performance with Independents in 2008 there is no viable conjecture that supports her ability to carry enough Independents to win a swing state.

I admit a wingnut like tRump creates a minor "wild card" factor but based on real world performance and support there is no evidence to support the conjecture that it won't mirror his performance in the GE. If teapublicans really hated him than Cruz or Rubio would be in the lead, not him. FYI, Sanders beats him with Independents as well.

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