2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumYou Get to Decide Who I Vote for in November!
Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein.
The Clintons and their DLC bullshit lost me in 1993 when Bill twisted enough arms to push NAFTA through Congress.
I voted Green party in 1996, 2000, and 2012. It doesn't bother my conscience at all.
Response to some guy (Original post)
Post removed
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)when al gore ran the shittiest campaign up until Clinton 2016?
dana_b
(11,546 posts)there's no sense in it. We should vote the way that s/he wants us to. End of story.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)it's never their fault. It must be a conservative thing.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)You can be unhappy with Gore's campaign and still blame Nader voters. Gore didn't purposely run a bad campaign. Nader voters purposely gave it to Bush.
A little fucking logic and you might understand it. And yeh, I'm still pissed.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)and you would understand Al Gore didn't win his home state, nor the state of the twice elected incumbent. I never voted green in my life but am mature and intelligent enough to not blame only Florida and Nader when he couldn't hold those two simple states. Your logic( lack of) shows an inability to look deep into what actually happened. He ran a crappy campaign agreeing with dubya more than opposing him. He basically ran the same "me too" candidacy that Hillary is currently doing.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Now it gets really ugly for the Gore campaign, for there are two other Florida constituencies that cost them more votes than Nader did. First, Democrats. Yes, Democrats! Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Naders votes wouldnt have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.
http://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Hillary and Gore do/did not inspire people to vote for them. It all goes back to the same ole same ole. given a choice to run for a democrat posing as a republican or a republican, the independents will pick the authentic one more often than not.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Bernie won't be "Nadered" for the rest of his life if he does not win the nomination and Hillary is defeated in the GE.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)and loses the general do you really think they will take responsibility? Hell the Hillary supporters won't even examine that she doesn't really hold true to democratic principles, they do not care, they are voting for the cult of personality , not that she is going to help them. It's like a sport with them. Bears vs. Packers, Cubs vs, Cardinals. When you point out the weaknesses you are banned from their group, or ignored. Both being dumb moves.
dubyadiprecession
(5,625 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)As in, that progressive liberal thing everyone around here spends year after year wishing the Democratic party COULD be (until it's time for Hillary to get elected apparently, then it's time to do a 180 on all the core values we're supposed to be supporting)
revbones
(3,660 posts)So don't blame Nader. I used to, and it's just not there.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)candidate loses it is the Democratic party's candidate's fault, not the fault of the voters. In what other contest in the world are the voters to blame for a contestant's loss? You may be able to use this strategy on some Democrats, but it does not work on Independents.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)and the election fraud in Florida under Jeb Bush?
It's epic avoidance. It must be so comforting to have a small scapegoat instead of to acknowledge a vast crime against democracy, the country and the world. Sad. Nader had nothing to do with the outcome, any more than did all the Democrats who voted for Bush.
Gore won the election and the popular vote in Florida. Florida was stolen by election fraud. The SC backed Scalia's opinion that stopped the count which would have given the state and the presidency to Gore.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)The AA caucus(and Bernie too, I hear) stood up and demanded that all AA votes be counted. The GOP engaged in voter caging(a felony) in violation of federal restraining order and not one frickin' Democratic Senator stood up to join them. Disgusting.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)See we can play this back and forth all day.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Oh, I know. Lack of critical thinking skills.
olddots
(10,237 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I thought I read that somewhere.
As a fellow Bernie supporter, I hope you will change your mind if Hillary wins the nomination, especially if you live in a swing state. I share many of your sentiments about the Democratic Party going too far to the right, but I just think there is too much at stake in this election, with a vacant Supreme Court seat that could change the trajectory of law in America, and the fact that the Republicans will either nominate a neo-Nazi or a senator who meets the legal definition of a terrorist.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I'll vote for Bernie if he gets nominated.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I disagree with you about the Clintons, but I absolutely defend your right to vote for whomever you choose. I've long defended Nader voters, who are so often vilified here. Personally I don't like Nader, but it was his right to run for president and the voters' rights to vote for the candidate of their choice.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)But, if someone voted for him that is their right. And he isn't a complete lunatic so there is that.
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Nice job.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)it had NOTHING to do with the shenanigans that went on down there or the Supreme Court or Jeb and Kathrine... Nope! It was some_guy. He did it!!!
some guy
(3,448 posts)Which is where I live and where I vote.
Your insult is meaningless to me.
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Lighten up.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)If he had he would have been president.
some guy
(3,448 posts)Well, I still don't feel responsible for Bush the lesser.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)In fairness, the margin shows that your one vote was not responsible for the loss. But 50,000 voters like you might have been.
PDittie
(8,322 posts)on where you live. I live in Texas. Does that answer your question?
I voted in the primary for Bernie, which precludes me from participating in any Green Party activism. I hold a media credential for the TX Dems' state convention this June in San Antonio, and for the GPUS presidential nominating convention in Houston in August.
I have contributed to both presidential campaigns this cycle. So I'm kind of a hybrid.
I hope there a large number of Texas voters in November willing to send the right message to the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party -- and conversely, the Trumpers and Trumpettes of the Rethuglican Party -- that our progressive votes cannot be taken for granted, and I think the two worst ways to send that message are not voting, or writing in Bernie's name. Texas does not count write-in votes unless they are 'certified', which means 50K signatures in a small window of time. And because his name has appeared on the D line already, he's automatically ineligible as a write-in or third-party or independent candidate. Check the write-in laws in your state; YMMV.
If you live in a swing state that polls closely as Election Day approaches, the choice becomes more of a quandary. LOTE may well be a deciding factor. But there will only be, as there have been for a few cycles now, a handful of states where that will be the case.
The easiest and best thing to do is vote your conscience and let the chips fall where they may.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)is coming out into the open here and elsewhere.
Yes, if I dont get universal healthcare or tuition free college or appropriate taxation on wall street/rich people, all fantastic ideas of Bernie Sanders, then I will say the hell with the Americans who will be treated like hell if the GOP takes over, because it probably wont affect me.
Probably, hopefully.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Mike__M
(1,052 posts)!
revbones
(3,660 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)
If it doesn't bother your conscience at all then don't worry about the real practical consequences that gays, Latinos, immigrants, and blacks will face if a Republican wins, and vote for whomever you damn please. I mean, really, why should you care if Hispanics are deported, gays lose rights, blacks remain impoverished, and women lose abortion rights? Some guy is some privileged guy, I suppose.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)they will nominate a candidate that has earned it.
That ain't Hillary.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)get to decide who you vote for.
If you think you need some kind of approval from others to make your choice more palatable try looking for someone who gives a shit.
You own your vote and the fucking consequences that come with it. Blaming others is beyond pathetic.
Renew Deal
(81,803 posts)Loki
(3,825 posts)Selfish little AH.