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lol. Where will Bernie get all the money for his Free Stuff? (Original Post) ErikJ Mar 2016 OP
With what congress? fun n serious Mar 2016 #1
Yeah, I'm with you. Let's just take what the Republicans will allow Matt_in_STL Mar 2016 #3
That's why we have BernieDems Uglystick Mar 2016 #28
Yep, more of the "accept the status quo and be quiet" casperthegm Mar 2016 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author Wilms Mar 2016 #4
No, we can't! Wilms Mar 2016 #5
USA! USA! We're #23! We're #23! TheBlackAdder Mar 2016 #8
I absolutely don't want whatever a GOP Congress would work with Hillary on, so there's that. djean111 Mar 2016 #6
It's up to us to give him the congress he needs. thesquanderer Mar 2016 #9
exactly. nilram Mar 2016 #42
I don't think Congress will cooperate, either. We need a better MADem Mar 2016 #10
We're favored to take back the Senate in November. Zen Democrat Mar 2016 #17
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a Democratic Senate will MADem Mar 2016 #18
So what's your point? KPN Mar 2016 #34
I am not proselytizing. MADem Mar 2016 #41
I appreciate your pragmatism, MADem... tex-wyo-dem Mar 2016 #59
I think there's room for idealists, too. I've just BTDT AND bought the MADem Mar 2016 #62
As KPN asks... Plucketeer Mar 2016 #36
I invite your attention to post 41. MADem Mar 2016 #45
To me, that's another argument for Bernie. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #24
Is that why Clinton doesn't even have a plan? Other than a rising tide raises all yachts. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #20
Have a lovely evening. nt MADem Mar 2016 #21
"raises all yachts" FailureToCommunicate Mar 2016 #61
In under 2 min. Bonus points. nm rhett o rick Mar 2016 #19
So, why is it so hard for you to answer the question? Amimnoch Mar 2016 #57
He would have one hell of a time as president. Not only would the Republicons rhett o rick Mar 2016 #66
The same one Hillary will be "working with" to keep from being impeached. nt Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2016 #25
^^ This, for the win ^^ Myrina Mar 2016 #70
His supporters will bombard members of Congress with phone calls until they surrender KingFlorez Mar 2016 #26
Never get on the wrong side of the American Can Do spirit. Land Shark Mar 2016 #30
Same question can be asked of any democratic policy proposal from anyone. gcomeau Mar 2016 #32
You ought to rethink your name. Chef Eric Mar 2016 #33
Ha! DU'zy! ms liberty Mar 2016 #39
Do you plan on voting for downticket dems, fun n serious? Scootaloo Mar 2016 #35
How does that not apply to Clinton also? JackRiddler Mar 2016 #49
so since she is now the "me too" candidate and wants so MUCH of the dana_b Mar 2016 #52
And you seriously think that she could get ANYTHING done???? SoapBox Mar 2016 #54
One planet at a time. AtheistCrusader Mar 2016 #58
with the congress we work to elect LWolf Mar 2016 #69
Or, just say it cant be done, and be satisfied with the way it is now. Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #2
Yeah, what's the use of even getting out of bed in the morning? Human101948 Mar 2016 #7
I thought she gave us planes, helicopters, gliders and balloons...! MADem Mar 2016 #12
Yes She does! Human101948 Mar 2016 #16
Yeah Plucketeer Mar 2016 #40
Burn, no....but crash? I've seen more birds crash than planes. MADem Mar 2016 #53
so where are the posts targeting Congressional seats? treestar Mar 2016 #72
follow the bread Gwhittey Mar 2016 #11
Tax rock Mar 2016 #13
That seems right wingy. nt cyberswede Mar 2016 #75
Somewhat rock Mar 2016 #77
Once he gets the ball rolling in the reform direction, there will be ladjf Mar 2016 #14
Good OP. The obstacles are special interests lobby money not the people, that is what the movement Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #15
I think if Bernie is elected we will see post like "Bernie is a fucking used car salesman" itsrobert Mar 2016 #22
Yep. fun n serious Mar 2016 #23
This is something I've said before KingFlorez Mar 2016 #27
Yea. metroins Mar 2016 #60
His most ardent fans will turn on him in a nanosecond CorkySt.Clair Mar 2016 #46
I hear he's tracking all the Clinton voters, and just before he puts them in FEMA camps, he's going Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2016 #29
his haters don't care and really don't even want it stupidicus Mar 2016 #31
If Bernie is elected, I think he'll accomplish more than a lot of people think... First Speaker Mar 2016 #37
One President Bernie - Priceless! nt Xipe Totec Mar 2016 #38
One cost was omitted from the list in the OP. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #43
He'll Get the Money From a Tax On Hillary's Speaking Fees ... Impedimentus Mar 2016 #44
. UglyGreed Mar 2016 #47
Pure fantasy. n/t SylviaD Mar 2016 #50
"Pure Fantasy" ... better than an impure fantasy? Impedimentus Mar 2016 #55
I'm sorry but Bernie's financial ideas are not in any way realistic. SylviaD Mar 2016 #68
And Hillary's are? noiretextatique Mar 2016 #73
Well, some of the world's best economists disagree with you noiretextatique Mar 2016 #74
Out of the military budget, one would hope. JackRiddler Mar 2016 #51
Sanders is going to cut annual health care expenditures from $3Trillion to $1.38T.And people believe Hoyt Mar 2016 #56
A different place than the others would get their money for endless wars lostnfound Mar 2016 #63
K&R freedom fighter jh Mar 2016 #64
Bernie doesn't call it free, he says taxes, taxes, taxes, including a payroll tax for health care. Todays_Illusion Mar 2016 #65
I see mostly cutting tax loopholes of rich and corps. And I'd sure rather pay ErikJ Mar 2016 #67
You may have misunderstood, I am all for the Bernie plan, Todays_Illusion Mar 2016 #80
Here ya go... Armymedic88 Mar 2016 #76
I do like the Sanders plan, I am a very strong Sanders supporter. Todays_Illusion Mar 2016 #81
I love threads like this. Myrina Mar 2016 #71
at the time I am typing this there are 78 replies in this thread and I only see 20 of them corkhead Mar 2016 #79
must be for the mathematically challenged. drray23 Mar 2016 #78
 

Matt_in_STL

(1,446 posts)
3. Yeah, I'm with you. Let's just take what the Republicans will allow
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:32 PM
Mar 2016

Hey, let's just become Republicans too. Hillary has us off to a good start, may as well just go all the way, right?

 

Uglystick

(88 posts)
28. That's why we have BernieDems
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:50 PM
Mar 2016

ready to go to grab the coattails of Bernie when he runs over Trump and the Thugs.

casperthegm

(643 posts)
48. Yep, more of the "accept the status quo and be quiet"
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:53 PM
Mar 2016

Not going to happen. Bernie has started something here. I hope he wins the nomination, but win or lose, I'm never going back to the Clinton establishment politics. No more settling. My hope is that many of us are either going to bring the democratic party back to the left and take it back from corporate America or say goodbye to the party- it left us, not vice versa.

Response to fun n serious (Reply #1)

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
6. I absolutely don't want whatever a GOP Congress would work with Hillary on, so there's that.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:34 PM
Mar 2016

I feel they would be only too happy to cooperate on the things they both want, like war and the TPP and fracking and weakening the safety net.

thesquanderer

(11,955 posts)
9. It's up to us to give him the congress he needs.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:44 PM
Mar 2016

If not sufficiently in 2016, then more in 2018, 2020, 2022. No one is suggesting he can do all this immediately.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
10. I don't think Congress will cooperate, either. We need a better
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:46 PM
Mar 2016

Congress and that's not going to happen in two, four, even eight years. We might be able to make incremental gains, but not far - reaching stuff like he proposes.

Also, he sends a mixed message with the endorsement from Riegle, who was a Keating 5 ethics violator (lost him his seat, his career and his POTUS ambitions) and who is now a lobbyist who specializes in helping American big corporations AVOID US taxes. What role would that guy play in a hypothetical Sanders administration?

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
17. We're favored to take back the Senate in November.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:57 PM
Mar 2016

With the year we're having so far, anything could happen. The congressional Republicans are stewing in their own juices right now.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
18. Don't make the mistake of thinking that a Democratic Senate will
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:23 PM
Mar 2016

rubber stamp this agenda, though.

There are conservative Democrats in the Senate. There are moderate Democrats in the Senate--they dance with the ones what brung 'em, their constitutents. Anyone who thinks a screaming liberal could be elected from, say, North Dakota, or Louisiana, or Texas, is just dreaming.

We're a big tent, and we run the gamut of views with -- for the most part-- agreement on a party platform. But there's a load of wiggle room there.

For example, a lot of people don't realize that Harry Reid, who has been an extraordinary leader in the Senate, is, in terms of his personal beliefs, quite strongly "anti-choice." That said, he doesn't impede the platform, and, as Leader, he does his job.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
41. I am not proselytizing.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:47 PM
Mar 2016

I am expressing a POV.

I am not demanding, suggesting, or even urging you to agree with me. You can keep your emoticons, I don't need them.

Follow your heart and more power to you--I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that, though.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
59. I appreciate your pragmatism, MADem...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:16 PM
Mar 2016

But there comes a time when a pragmatic approach and settling for incremental changes is just simply not enough or fast enough (action on stopping the destruction of our middle class and climate change are two examples).

Bernie is a visionary, no question, and his vision is supported by more and more people everyday. He knows very well that there will be tremendous resistance from the establishment, and that is why he's calling on a political revolution...getting millions of people to become activists and constantly pressure their elected representatives to vote and support what the people want. This is a movement and can't just end once the election is over...it has to be long, powerful and sustained.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
62. I think there's room for idealists, too. I've just BTDT AND bought the
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:26 PM
Mar 2016

tee shirts (and the campaign buttons, and the bumper stickers) --which would probably fetch a pretty penny on e-bay these days as historical artifacts.

I've also worked on the Hill and seen how the sausage is made. Even in these days where there is no comity, like there was, say, pre-Nixon, there are plenty of people who still know how to slide across the aisle to cut a deal.

But a wholesale "Throw the Bums Out" approach to Congress? Funny thing about Congress--most people give them low grades....EXCEPT their own delegation.

Funny how that works! All politics is, apparently, local.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
36. As KPN asks...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:44 PM
Mar 2016

What's your point??? When DO we grab the bull by the horns and start to tame it's rampage? Four years? 8 years? 16 years??? Bernie's the match that lights this whole thing off. Time for kindling and logs so we can foster a blaze. A beacon of hope and change!

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
24. To me, that's another argument for Bernie.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:39 PM
Mar 2016

I think he's better for the downballot...although I recognize that that's very much subject to debate.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
57. So, why is it so hard for you to answer the question?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:12 PM
Mar 2016

What is the path to passing the legislation that will make the Sanders plan happen?

You in particular just love to toss around that term "oligarchy". So do tell, if all of the support from Congress that Hillary gets is due to in line following of the "oligarchy", how exactly is Sanders going to pass the plan?

Maybe you are right. If you are though, that doesn't lend credence to these claimes. Quite the opposite it makes any of it happening even less likely, and all the more false.

Is he going to step into the White House and declare himself king of the US? Dissolve congress?

To pass his healthcare plan, exactly how is he going to sell it to the Republican held house with the "oligarchy" Democrat minority?

Even if the Democrats do take back the Senate, how exactly is he going to win over that "oligarchy" majority?

This should not be that hard of a question.. Do you have anything at all other than snark and name calling?

This is a fair and reasonable question to ask. How does the bills that will be REQUIRED to make anything in that OP chart happen get passed? What's the plan?

I've tried multiple times today, and before today to get just a HINT of an apetite to do what will HAVE to be done to make anything Sanders is proposing remotely feasible:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511453647

You want a FDR, but seem completely unwilling to do anythign to give your FDR a FDR style congress.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
66. He would have one hell of a time as president. Not only would the Republicons
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:02 PM
Mar 2016

hate him but so would the Oligarchy owned Democrats. But at least his heart is in the correct place. Whereas Clinton won't have a problem with a conservative Congress. She wants what they want. More wealth and power for herself and the wealthy.

I understand why some side with the wealthy and powerful. They are afraid to fight for freedoms and liberties. They seem to be able to ignore the 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty choosing to side with the wealthy. Some will rationalize that Clinton will help the 99%. Cake is about as good as we will get from the Aristocracy.

No Democrat should choose the 1% over the 99%, don't you agree

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
26. His supporters will bombard members of Congress with phone calls until they surrender
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:46 PM
Mar 2016

Heck, some of them might even try threats. lol.

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
32. Same question can be asked of any democratic policy proposal from anyone.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:32 PM
Mar 2016

(In case you missed the last 8 years)


And the only way around it is to change the composition of Congress.

Which will require a popular reformist movement.

Which requires Sanders, because Clinton isn't building one.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
49. How does that not apply to Clinton also?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:56 PM
Mar 2016

Not that I believe it's an inevitability.

Why has the Clinton side already conceded the Congress until 2024? Convenience?

dana_b

(11,546 posts)
52. so since she is now the "me too" candidate and wants so MUCH of the
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:00 PM
Mar 2016

same as what Bernie wants, aren't you also worried about congress not working with her if she wins??

Or maybe you aren't because you know that there is no way that she actually wants what Bernie wants.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
54. And you seriously think that she could get ANYTHING done????
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:04 PM
Mar 2016

Oh man...if we thought we saw Obama obstruction, I cannot even imagine the stoppage of her.

Pukes and Baggers would be out of their fucking minds to stop her from even taking out the trash!

No way to her!

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
58. One planet at a time.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:14 PM
Mar 2016

Aligning 3 planets simultaneously is a big effort for one guy. Maybe you could help?

OR, are you admitting your preferred candidate is actually going to govern to the center? Because that's the implication when you pooh-pooh very left/progressive funding policies like this.

You probably don't mean to, but you're actually carrying water for conservatives. When you negotiate, you ask hi, and then haggle with the opposition. When you laugh and undercut your own side's negotiating power, you're helping them.

This IS your side, right?

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
69. with the congress we work to elect
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:25 AM
Mar 2016

this November. Sanders has tremendous crossover appeal, and will have broad and long coattails. We'll work to make it happen.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
2. Or, just say it cant be done, and be satisfied with the way it is now.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:30 PM
Mar 2016

President Obama has been an incredible success, even if you measure what he did not in the context of the obstruction.

It is time, however, to go even further.

There is absolutely no reason, at all, this country cant have single payer tomorrow.

So to speak.

Among other things.

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
7. Yeah, what's the use of even getting out of bed in the morning?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:35 PM
Mar 2016

If God wanted us to fly she would have given us wings!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
12. I thought she gave us planes, helicopters, gliders and balloons...!
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:48 PM
Mar 2016

Doesn't she help those who help themselves, or something on those lines...?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
53. Burn, no....but crash? I've seen more birds crash than planes.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:01 PM
Mar 2016

Go work in a skyscraper, you'll see what I mean.

And then....there's this:



Next big thing, I suspect....

treestar

(82,383 posts)
72. so where are the posts targeting Congressional seats?
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:33 AM
Mar 2016

where do we send money to candidates who can take seats from Republican incumbents?

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
11. follow the bread
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:47 PM
Mar 2016

calling for a full loaf, “at worst you’re going to get a half loaf.”

But if you ask for a half loaf, “you’re gonna get crumbs.”

Sanders said Americans don’t need crumbs. “They need the whole loaf.”

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
14. Once he gets the ball rolling in the reform direction, there will be
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:52 PM
Mar 2016

new, as yet undefined, opportunities to finance his goals. The situational improvements will
cause other sources to appear. The whole platform is vast. He can't hold to cleanly laying out the exact source of everything. Further, in the expansion of services, the Government will have to be willing to
create some debt to get the ball rolling.

There will have to be some creative thinking here.



Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
15. Good OP. The obstacles are special interests lobby money not the people, that is what the movement
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 06:55 PM
Mar 2016

is about.

itsrobert

(14,157 posts)
22. I think if Bernie is elected we will see post like "Bernie is a fucking used car salesman"
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:35 PM
Mar 2016

Because he will have to compromise on the stuff he wants to get accomplish.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
27. This is something I've said before
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:48 PM
Mar 2016

On the really, really off chance that Sanders was ever elected, nothing he accomplished would look anything like his grand plan.

metroins

(2,550 posts)
60. Yea.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:19 PM
Mar 2016

I don't know why anybody is buying into what the guys selling...NONE of it would look like what he says.

I'd love to have Bernie's utopia, because socialism would be an ultimate utopia...but we live in reality.

 

CorkySt.Clair

(1,507 posts)
46. His most ardent fans will turn on him in a nanosecond
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:53 PM
Mar 2016

Or maybe it's just Obama that gets that treatment.

Hopefully we'll never find out.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
29. I hear he's tracking all the Clinton voters, and just before he puts them in FEMA camps, he's going
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:51 PM
Mar 2016

to confiscate all their wealth.

 

stupidicus

(2,570 posts)
31. his haters don't care and really don't even want it
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:26 PM
Mar 2016

they prefer the 3rdwayer way of getting things done, like throwing chained cpi on the table before the debate even begins.

The only ones they know how to be hardnosed towards are us stinkin hippy types

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
37. If Bernie is elected, I think he'll accomplish more than a lot of people think...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:45 PM
Mar 2016

...no, he won't get everything on this list exactly as it's described. But this will be his agenda, his Goal for America, and he won't hesitate to use the Bully Pulpit when and as needed. And besides, if he *should* get into the White House, it would be such a shocking upset, such a lightning bolt against the ramparts of Conventional Thinking, that in itself would start the avalanche moving. I honestly can't see the Congressional GOP in a mindlessly destructive negative mode--the whole gestalt in America would be against them. Sanders' victory would be probably the greatest affirmation of the Left in our history. The broken remnants of the GOP would be very demoralized. With firmness and unrelenting Bully Pulpiting, a President Sanders could accomplish quite a bit...

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
43. One cost was omitted from the list in the OP.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:50 PM
Mar 2016

THE SUPREME COURT. Republican obstruction in our Legislative Branch will only stiffen with Sanders multi-trillion dollar wish list. The Judicial Branch is now the de facto Legislative Branch.

Impedimentus

(898 posts)
44. He'll Get the Money From a Tax On Hillary's Speaking Fees ...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:50 PM
Mar 2016

she'll still have plenty left over for a round-the-world cruise with DWS and the Kissingers.

Impedimentus

(898 posts)
55. "Pure Fantasy" ... better than an impure fantasy?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:05 PM
Mar 2016

I disagree with your comment since you have offered no rebuttal, and have used precious electronic paper to post a vague, meaningless phrase.

SylviaD

(721 posts)
68. I'm sorry but Bernie's financial ideas are not in any way realistic.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 08:03 AM
Mar 2016

I didn't feel I needed to explain, because they are ridiculous on their face.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
74. Well, some of the world's best economists disagree with you
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:11 PM
Mar 2016

But we'll just take your prouncement as gospel.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
51. Out of the military budget, one would hope.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:58 PM
Mar 2016

Unfortunately, that's the one thing he can't say, assuming he's thinking it.

You can't hit Wall Street and the Pentagon in the same election, I do believe.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
56. Sanders is going to cut annual health care expenditures from $3Trillion to $1.38T.And people believe
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:09 PM
Mar 2016

that junk. And Congress is going to go along with it. We'll end up with a crummy voucher system is the truth.

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
63. A different place than the others would get their money for endless wars
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:27 PM
Mar 2016

Top1% as opposed to debt for future generations

freedom fighter jh

(1,782 posts)
64. K&R
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:28 PM
Mar 2016

It's not just Bernie haters asking. I've heard it from voters who are thinking about voting for Bernie but having doubts.

Your detailed answer is a valuable contribution.

I tell them, more vaguely, that somehow finding money for programs that serve the people is just the point. The funding can come out of corporate welfare or something.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
67. I see mostly cutting tax loopholes of rich and corps. And I'd sure rather pay
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:28 PM
Mar 2016

a bit more in taxes for healthcare than thousands for privatized health insurance where they skim billions off the top for their Swiss bank accounts.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
71. I love threads like this.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:30 AM
Mar 2016

All the scolders come out with their 'No you can't. You better not try' poo poo'ing and it's so much easier to get them on ignore.
Wish there was a mass 'block' feature we could use.

Thanks Erik!

corkhead

(6,119 posts)
79. at the time I am typing this there are 78 replies in this thread and I only see 20 of them
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 05:06 PM
Mar 2016

for some reason.

drray23

(7,587 posts)
78. must be for the mathematically challenged.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 04:45 PM
Mar 2016

If you calculate how much money he is expecting to raise per year to pay for his expenditures it is about 2 trillions.

The yearly budget is currently 3.5 Trillions.
So he will magically get congress to enact all these sweeping reforms to raise enough to nearly double our budget to above 5 trillions...

Yeah sure. the past few years the president has struggled to get congress to even fund the current budget. As a matter of fact president obama closed the 1.2 Trillion deficit to 400 billions but we are still not even. That was done with the republicans shutting down the federal government over it.

The fact people believe this is astounding.




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