2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumlol. Where will Bernie get all the money for his Free Stuff?
So ask the Bernie haters.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Lol...
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)Hey, let's just become Republicans too. Hillary has us off to a good start, may as well just go all the way, right?
Uglystick
(88 posts)ready to go to grab the coattails of Bernie when he runs over Trump and the Thugs.
casperthegm
(643 posts)Not going to happen. Bernie has started something here. I hope he wins the nomination, but win or lose, I'm never going back to the Clinton establishment politics. No more settling. My hope is that many of us are either going to bring the democratic party back to the left and take it back from corporate America or say goodbye to the party- it left us, not vice versa.
Response to fun n serious (Reply #1)
Wilms This message was self-deleted by its author.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)I feel they would be only too happy to cooperate on the things they both want, like war and the TPP and fracking and weakening the safety net.
thesquanderer
(11,955 posts)If not sufficiently in 2016, then more in 2018, 2020, 2022. No one is suggesting he can do all this immediately.
nilram
(2,879 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Congress and that's not going to happen in two, four, even eight years. We might be able to make incremental gains, but not far - reaching stuff like he proposes.
Also, he sends a mixed message with the endorsement from Riegle, who was a Keating 5 ethics violator (lost him his seat, his career and his POTUS ambitions) and who is now a lobbyist who specializes in helping American big corporations AVOID US taxes. What role would that guy play in a hypothetical Sanders administration?
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)With the year we're having so far, anything could happen. The congressional Republicans are stewing in their own juices right now.
MADem
(135,425 posts)rubber stamp this agenda, though.
There are conservative Democrats in the Senate. There are moderate Democrats in the Senate--they dance with the ones what brung 'em, their constitutents. Anyone who thinks a screaming liberal could be elected from, say, North Dakota, or Louisiana, or Texas, is just dreaming.
We're a big tent, and we run the gamut of views with -- for the most part-- agreement on a party platform. But there's a load of wiggle room there.
For example, a lot of people don't realize that Harry Reid, who has been an extraordinary leader in the Senate, is, in terms of his personal beliefs, quite strongly "anti-choice." That said, he doesn't impede the platform, and, as Leader, he does his job.
KPN
(15,587 posts)Vote for Hillary?
MADem
(135,425 posts)I am expressing a POV.
I am not demanding, suggesting, or even urging you to agree with me. You can keep your emoticons, I don't need them.
Follow your heart and more power to you--I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that, though.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)But there comes a time when a pragmatic approach and settling for incremental changes is just simply not enough or fast enough (action on stopping the destruction of our middle class and climate change are two examples).
Bernie is a visionary, no question, and his vision is supported by more and more people everyday. He knows very well that there will be tremendous resistance from the establishment, and that is why he's calling on a political revolution...getting millions of people to become activists and constantly pressure their elected representatives to vote and support what the people want. This is a movement and can't just end once the election is over...it has to be long, powerful and sustained.
MADem
(135,425 posts)tee shirts (and the campaign buttons, and the bumper stickers) --which would probably fetch a pretty penny on e-bay these days as historical artifacts.
I've also worked on the Hill and seen how the sausage is made. Even in these days where there is no comity, like there was, say, pre-Nixon, there are plenty of people who still know how to slide across the aisle to cut a deal.
But a wholesale "Throw the Bums Out" approach to Congress? Funny thing about Congress--most people give them low grades....EXCEPT their own delegation.
Funny how that works! All politics is, apparently, local.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)What's your point??? When DO we grab the bull by the horns and start to tame it's rampage? Four years? 8 years? 16 years??? Bernie's the match that lights this whole thing off. Time for kindling and logs so we can foster a blaze. A beacon of hope and change!
MADem
(135,425 posts)Again, follow your own heart and more power to you.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I think he's better for the downballot...although I recognize that that's very much subject to debate.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(13,989 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)What is the path to passing the legislation that will make the Sanders plan happen?
You in particular just love to toss around that term "oligarchy". So do tell, if all of the support from Congress that Hillary gets is due to in line following of the "oligarchy", how exactly is Sanders going to pass the plan?
Maybe you are right. If you are though, that doesn't lend credence to these claimes. Quite the opposite it makes any of it happening even less likely, and all the more false.
Is he going to step into the White House and declare himself king of the US? Dissolve congress?
To pass his healthcare plan, exactly how is he going to sell it to the Republican held house with the "oligarchy" Democrat minority?
Even if the Democrats do take back the Senate, how exactly is he going to win over that "oligarchy" majority?
This should not be that hard of a question.. Do you have anything at all other than snark and name calling?
This is a fair and reasonable question to ask. How does the bills that will be REQUIRED to make anything in that OP chart happen get passed? What's the plan?
I've tried multiple times today, and before today to get just a HINT of an apetite to do what will HAVE to be done to make anything Sanders is proposing remotely feasible:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511453647
You want a FDR, but seem completely unwilling to do anythign to give your FDR a FDR style congress.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)hate him but so would the Oligarchy owned Democrats. But at least his heart is in the correct place. Whereas Clinton won't have a problem with a conservative Congress. She wants what they want. More wealth and power for herself and the wealthy.
I understand why some side with the wealthy and powerful. They are afraid to fight for freedoms and liberties. They seem to be able to ignore the 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty choosing to side with the wealthy. Some will rationalize that Clinton will help the 99%. Cake is about as good as we will get from the Aristocracy.
No Democrat should choose the 1% over the 99%, don't you agree
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Myrina
(12,296 posts)They just don't seem to understand that, do they?
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Heck, some of them might even try threats. lol.
Land Shark
(6,346 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)(In case you missed the last 8 years)
And the only way around it is to change the composition of Congress.
Which will require a popular reformist movement.
Which requires Sanders, because Clinton isn't building one.
Chef Eric
(1,024 posts)You're not any fun, and I don't take you seriously.
ms liberty
(8,479 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Not that I believe it's an inevitability.
Why has the Clinton side already conceded the Congress until 2024? Convenience?
dana_b
(11,546 posts)same as what Bernie wants, aren't you also worried about congress not working with her if she wins??
Or maybe you aren't because you know that there is no way that she actually wants what Bernie wants.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Oh man...if we thought we saw Obama obstruction, I cannot even imagine the stoppage of her.
Pukes and Baggers would be out of their fucking minds to stop her from even taking out the trash!
No way to her!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Aligning 3 planets simultaneously is a big effort for one guy. Maybe you could help?
OR, are you admitting your preferred candidate is actually going to govern to the center? Because that's the implication when you pooh-pooh very left/progressive funding policies like this.
You probably don't mean to, but you're actually carrying water for conservatives. When you negotiate, you ask hi, and then haggle with the opposition. When you laugh and undercut your own side's negotiating power, you're helping them.
This IS your side, right?
LWolf
(46,179 posts)this November. Sanders has tremendous crossover appeal, and will have broad and long coattails. We'll work to make it happen.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)President Obama has been an incredible success, even if you measure what he did not in the context of the obstruction.
It is time, however, to go even further.
There is absolutely no reason, at all, this country cant have single payer tomorrow.
So to speak.
Among other things.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)If God wanted us to fly she would have given us wings!
MADem
(135,425 posts)Doesn't she help those who help themselves, or something on those lines...?
Human101948
(3,457 posts)My point exactly! You are so smart!
and just how often have you seen a bird crash and burn?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Go work in a skyscraper, you'll see what I mean.
And then....there's this:
Next big thing, I suspect....
treestar
(82,383 posts)where do we send money to candidates who can take seats from Republican incumbents?
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)calling for a full loaf, at worst youre going to get a half loaf.
But if you ask for a half loaf, youre gonna get crumbs.
Sanders said Americans dont need crumbs. They need the whole loaf.
Yep.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)But I wasn't the one to characterize all that stuff as free.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)new, as yet undefined, opportunities to finance his goals. The situational improvements will
cause other sources to appear. The whole platform is vast. He can't hold to cleanly laying out the exact source of everything. Further, in the expansion of services, the Government will have to be willing to
create some debt to get the ball rolling.
There will have to be some creative thinking here.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)is about.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Because he will have to compromise on the stuff he wants to get accomplish.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)1 term. IMO.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)On the really, really off chance that Sanders was ever elected, nothing he accomplished would look anything like his grand plan.
I don't know why anybody is buying into what the guys selling...NONE of it would look like what he says.
I'd love to have Bernie's utopia, because socialism would be an ultimate utopia...but we live in reality.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Or maybe it's just Obama that gets that treatment.
Hopefully we'll never find out.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)to confiscate all their wealth.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)they prefer the 3rdwayer way of getting things done, like throwing chained cpi on the table before the debate even begins.
The only ones they know how to be hardnosed towards are us stinkin hippy types
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...no, he won't get everything on this list exactly as it's described. But this will be his agenda, his Goal for America, and he won't hesitate to use the Bully Pulpit when and as needed. And besides, if he *should* get into the White House, it would be such a shocking upset, such a lightning bolt against the ramparts of Conventional Thinking, that in itself would start the avalanche moving. I honestly can't see the Congressional GOP in a mindlessly destructive negative mode--the whole gestalt in America would be against them. Sanders' victory would be probably the greatest affirmation of the Left in our history. The broken remnants of the GOP would be very demoralized. With firmness and unrelenting Bully Pulpiting, a President Sanders could accomplish quite a bit...
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)THE SUPREME COURT. Republican obstruction in our Legislative Branch will only stiffen with Sanders multi-trillion dollar wish list. The Judicial Branch is now the de facto Legislative Branch.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)she'll still have plenty left over for a round-the-world cruise with DWS and the Kissingers.
SylviaD
(721 posts)Impedimentus
(898 posts)I disagree with your comment since you have offered no rebuttal, and have used precious electronic paper to post a vague, meaningless phrase.
SylviaD
(721 posts)I didn't feel I needed to explain, because they are ridiculous on their face.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Yep...because she will get lots of republicon support.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)But we'll just take your prouncement as gospel.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Unfortunately, that's the one thing he can't say, assuming he's thinking it.
You can't hit Wall Street and the Pentagon in the same election, I do believe.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)that junk. And Congress is going to go along with it. We'll end up with a crummy voucher system is the truth.
lostnfound
(16,138 posts)Top1% as opposed to debt for future generations
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)It's not just Bernie haters asking. I've heard it from voters who are thinking about voting for Bernie but having doubts.
Your detailed answer is a valuable contribution.
I tell them, more vaguely, that somehow finding money for programs that serve the people is just the point. The funding can come out of corporate welfare or something.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)a bit more in taxes for healthcare than thousands for privatized health insurance where they skim billions off the top for their Swiss bank accounts.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)Armymedic88
(251 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)Myrina
(12,296 posts)All the scolders come out with their 'No you can't. You better not try' poo poo'ing and it's so much easier to get them on ignore.
Wish there was a mass 'block' feature we could use.
Thanks Erik!
corkhead
(6,119 posts)for some reason.
drray23
(7,587 posts)If you calculate how much money he is expecting to raise per year to pay for his expenditures it is about 2 trillions.
The yearly budget is currently 3.5 Trillions.
So he will magically get congress to enact all these sweeping reforms to raise enough to nearly double our budget to above 5 trillions...
Yeah sure. the past few years the president has struggled to get congress to even fund the current budget. As a matter of fact president obama closed the 1.2 Trillion deficit to 400 billions but we are still not even. That was done with the republicans shutting down the federal government over it.
The fact people believe this is astounding.