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bravenak

(34,648 posts)
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:24 AM Mar 2016

Very intersting opinion piece by a Black man on the Sanders campaign

https://myunclesmaynotapprove.wordpress.com/2016/03/18/why-i-and-i-think-a-lot-of-black-people-dont-feel-the-bern/

(Be warned that this is not completely free from controversial opinions and is nsfw)
I won't post an excerpt because there is so much I actually do not agree with, but his opinions are complicated and interesting, and he writes about alot of different issues. I thought I'd share and discuss.

If you are not interested in hearing criticism or and negative words or opinions, this op is not one you should click the link on.
264 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Very intersting opinion piece by a Black man on the Sanders campaign (Original Post) bravenak Mar 2016 OP
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #1
If it is they can fuck off. I feel confident saying Sanders doesn't want those kind of people. white_wolf Mar 2016 #2
Personally, I think its the 40 Acres and a Mule offering FrenchieCat Mar 2016 #7
Sorry, you got a hide, Frenchie. The good news is they can't suspend anyone anymore with their Cha Mar 2016 #68
That had to be the worst hide in the world. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #112
+1 MaggieD Mar 2016 #161
It was only hidden because folks didn't want to discuss the content. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #163
That's it. These guys have burned 1000 calories pretending that Sanders supporters like that guy Number23 Mar 2016 #252
They actually brought more attention to it by hiding it... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #253
a bit of clarification redruddyred Mar 2016 #95
We don't have time for electing a candidate based on a "largely symbolic" platform. politicaljunkie41910 Mar 2016 #238
apparently monsieur sanders has been doing just this all these years redruddyred Mar 2016 #260
B represents change snowy owl Mar 2016 #254
That was a bogus hide. So typical of this place. hrmjustin Mar 2016 #115
Skinner should unhide it so we can discuss it. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #117
Agreed! hrmjustin Mar 2016 #118
I was trying to find his facebook page to see if there are any more goodies. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #120
Discuss it? We all know there are racist morons in the world whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #138
Yeah unhide it UglyGreed Mar 2016 #209
What's bogus is that twitter account melman Mar 2016 #203
Did you look for it on twitter? hrmjustin Mar 2016 #205
and a bizarre bogus hide at that. Unbelievable. kwassa Mar 2016 #221
Agreed Gothmog Mar 2016 #239
wow just wow on that hide dsc Mar 2016 #246
I agree bravenak Mar 2016 #11
Yeah, about that "not managing the message" thing... kristopher Mar 2016 #34
. bravenak Mar 2016 #39
lol.. they got over it and united to make pull our country out of the hell hole that bush left. Cha Mar 2016 #84
It drives them crazy bravenak Mar 2016 #88
Funny how people forget the smoking ruins that Bush and the republicans workinclasszero Mar 2016 #89
history lesson: redruddyred Mar 2016 #93
Birthers too workinclasszero Mar 2016 #111
Created by Koch Industries to oppose government programs to help poor people. Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #201
i also think there is astroturfing afoot nt redruddyred Mar 2016 #261
Probably because their Donors told them to unite and play nice! Dustlawyer Mar 2016 #126
Indeed treestar Mar 2016 #153
Right treestar.. a true friendship ensued.. did you see that vapid comment above..? Cha Mar 2016 #249
Why is "Hillary Clinton is a liar" in quotations FrenchieCat Mar 2016 #40
Because - but, but, but Hillary! EffieBlack Mar 2016 #92
You could also post a picture of Obama hugging Clinton with a HUGE Obama-esque grin... George II Mar 2016 #150
Of course this type of stuff hurts him... ljm2002 Mar 2016 #207
OFFS. He did not say this!!!! there really are no words for that depth of stupid. Cha Mar 2016 #4
That is horrible bravenak Mar 2016 #8
Good read. Hoyt Mar 2016 #3
It was like a roller coaster bravenak Mar 2016 #5
The problem for bernie is.. it's not the AA voters fault they don't like him .. it's his fault. Cha Mar 2016 #6
I agree bravenak Mar 2016 #9
+1 uponit7771 Mar 2016 #72
"Starting with wanting President Obama primaried in 2012..." workinclasszero Mar 2016 #90
Do you really want Bernie to be accountable for his comradebillyboy Mar 2016 #141
Great post Cha Gothmog Mar 2016 #240
Huh? progressoid Mar 2016 #243
As a Black and Pinoy person... RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #10
I respect your position bravenak Mar 2016 #12
If only Bernie had a plan besides a convenient political revolution FrenchieCat Mar 2016 #13
Well.. RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #18
Well, it's a bit late to.... FrenchieCat Mar 2016 #31
It's never too late.... RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #38
A big problem is that Bernie has never evidence any interest in these issues until he started EffieBlack Mar 2016 #96
Exactly MaggieD Mar 2016 #165
That's not entirely true. RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #199
I read the piece RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #22
I think racism has hindered our community.... FrenchieCat Mar 2016 #25
I agree. RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #29
We need both at the same time bravenak Mar 2016 #32
Absolutely! RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #33
when a candidate is not willing to entertain reparation.... FrenchieCat Mar 2016 #36
Yeah I was disappointed in him for that. RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #44
I respect and appreciate your views. lovemydog Mar 2016 #19
GREAT!!! RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #24
I'm doing that as best I can too! lovemydog Mar 2016 #27
P.S. compelling aritcle.. I just wanted to post my previous one first.. still reading it. Cha Mar 2016 #14
Yes. It is great bravenak Mar 2016 #15
This part is good: Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #16
I was laughing so hard I cried bravenak Mar 2016 #17
I'm just starting to read it now. lovemydog Mar 2016 #20
But, they ate cornbread and greens! Cha Mar 2016 #26
All kinds of SOUL FOOD bravenak Mar 2016 #43
+1 uponit7771 Mar 2016 #74
Thanks b. lovemydog Mar 2016 #21
Pure comedy but laced with fresh honesty bravenak Mar 2016 #23
The line about Iggy Azalea made me laugh out loud. lovemydog Mar 2016 #28
Had me rollin!! bravenak Mar 2016 #30
I know what you mean. lovemydog Mar 2016 #35
We could have our own show on comedy central bravenak Mar 2016 #37
Keyed & Peeled lovemydog Mar 2016 #41
I wanna be Keyed!! bravenak Mar 2016 #42
Buahahaha! lovemydog Mar 2016 #45
Go! It was Hillaryous! bravenak Mar 2016 #46
thanks for the good read. nt msongs Mar 2016 #47
Your welcome. bravenak Mar 2016 #48
Thanks for sharing. shadowandblossom Mar 2016 #49
I remember that monster thread bravenak Mar 2016 #51
Thanks, Bravenak. Articles like this help open my eyes. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #50
I'm glad. It was nice and funny to take the sting out bravenak Mar 2016 #54
OMG. "That one uncle with a business idea" Recursion Mar 2016 #52
I HAVE ONE bravenak Mar 2016 #53
Every Thanksgiving he tells us his next plan Recursion Mar 2016 #60
Sounds like my cousin bravenak Mar 2016 #73
Like my cousin who always has a great idea and wants me to help him "find a government grant" EffieBlack Mar 2016 #98
Oh God! bravenak Mar 2016 #100
Great article Gothmog Mar 2016 #55
We told them bravenak Mar 2016 #56
Yes we did Gothmog Mar 2016 #234
Ouch! I remember both these conversations being held recently.. Cha Mar 2016 #57
The double standards are glaring bravenak Mar 2016 #58
Truth. Have we seen Killer Mike since South Carolina? EffieBlack Mar 2016 #99
interesting read, thank you! nt steve2470 Mar 2016 #59
Yo!!! bravenak Mar 2016 #61
It looks to me like Fiq Blerdman holds a cynical, conservative ideology, has given up Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #62
I think he's right about both, we are not a monolith and we like the Clintons bravenak Mar 2016 #63
"Conservative".. Yeah, I don't.. he's straight up saying why he's not Impressed with BS. For Cha Mar 2016 #65
Not at all bravenak Mar 2016 #67
"Conservative" Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #76
I don't see how supporting someone who has a strong possibility of being Americas first woman ... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #78
So if Carly Fiorina or Sarah Palin were elected that would progressive or liberal because Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #79
No, it wouldn't be conservative though and Hillary is not Thatcher... not on any scale, that's ... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #82
Hillary's tendency for regime change, tacit support for military coup and waging war in Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #83
It's closer to 70% in the North and Bernie's message is all inclusive, in telling the "nation" Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #69
Drop the mic, Bravenak! EffieBlack Mar 2016 #105
I been hoping that repeating it might help them get it bravenak Mar 2016 #108
Word MaggieD Mar 2016 #170
I made a comment there.. it isn't showing up yet.. but this is what I said.. Cha Mar 2016 #64
Good comment bravenak Mar 2016 #66
Cha, I replied before seeing your post here GMTA lunamagica Mar 2016 #218
'Cause we loved it, lunamagica.. thought it was Cha Mar 2016 #250
"He sounds like that one uncle who always has a business idea but no business plan & no bank loan" uponit7771 Mar 2016 #70
I know, right... bravenak Mar 2016 #71
yeap, shit we said damn near a year ago is still being said today about Sanders. The white gender uponit7771 Mar 2016 #75
Omg bravenak Mar 2016 #77
Yes yes YES. That was exactly the sentence that caught me too Recursion Mar 2016 #85
I think the points made in the article were excellent. qdouble Mar 2016 #80
I agree bravenak Mar 2016 #81
K&R! stonecutter357 Mar 2016 #86
K&R! DemonGoddess Mar 2016 #87
I LOVE this piece! It expresses what so many of us have been saying EffieBlack Mar 2016 #91
Pretty damn good!!!! bravenak Mar 2016 #94
Hey Bravenak - posting for the sake of transparency and btw it was a thought provoking piece. seaglass Mar 2016 #97
Thank you!! What a good jury. bravenak Mar 2016 #101
Please consider hitting the alert button on that sufrommich Mar 2016 #107
Yes please do workinclasszero Mar 2016 #114
Can't believe this was alerted on! workinclasszero Mar 2016 #109
I guess the partisan jury pools are being reduced. joshcryer Mar 2016 #121
That was a great article bravenak workinclasszero Mar 2016 #102
Somebody sent it to me and I figured we might enjoy it bravenak Mar 2016 #104
Results... Major Nikon Mar 2016 #103
Thank you!! bravenak Mar 2016 #106
That article wasn't illuminating at all hellofromreddit Mar 2016 #110
Look bravenak Mar 2016 #124
A question I can never get a good answer to whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #145
They continued the fight their enire lives bravenak Mar 2016 #147
Nobody would disagree that no one is more central to the struggle than the oppressed themselves whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #151
It is less of a rejection and more of a response to the constant shoving of him at us based bravenak Mar 2016 #154
I find part of what you're saying true and part untrue whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #162
When I get sick of something? bravenak Mar 2016 #166
Well... if you think Hillary Clinton is the path to that better place whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #178
We make our own paths bravenak Mar 2016 #181
Hard to argue with that whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #187
Righteous! Have a great saturday! bravenak Mar 2016 #188
Same to you whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #195
Here's a good answer MaggieD Mar 2016 #184
You know... whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #194
His campaign has made a lot of mistakes MaggieD Mar 2016 #197
They also did a lot of things right whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #198
Well, bravenak is apparently not too fond of Jews. see my post #213 below. kath Mar 2016 #217
Thanks for the response hellofromreddit Mar 2016 #257
Excellent article, bravenak! Koinos Mar 2016 #113
I agree bravenak Mar 2016 #134
Devine and Weaver shot Sanders in the foot a number of times. Koinos Mar 2016 #158
I believe that is why Devine Does not win presidentials here at home bravenak Mar 2016 #159
It is probably too late for Sanders to shake up his staff at this point. Koinos Mar 2016 #171
That is absolutely how I see it bravenak Mar 2016 #180
I know that Clinton's staff is reputed to be diverse. Koinos Mar 2016 #183
She really does hire alot of minorities and Women bravenak Mar 2016 #185
Listening... Koinos Mar 2016 #190
Yeah, Weaver's been with Sanders since the 1990's Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #202
Good analysis. Koinos Mar 2016 #206
Yep. I agree to the fullest. bravenak Mar 2016 #263
Damn Stuckinthebush Mar 2016 #116
Hell yeah bravenak Mar 2016 #119
Thank you Stuckinthebush Mar 2016 #122
Thank you bravenak Mar 2016 #128
Well that was revolting whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #123
I said there were things I did not agree with and put that disclainer so folks did not bravenak Mar 2016 #129
What I'd suggest to the contrary would be... thesquanderer Mar 2016 #125
I agree that we like both pretty much the same bravenak Mar 2016 #130
About as interesting as the views you expressed here: Vattel Mar 2016 #127
Very interesting. For those that didn't click on the link kath Mar 2016 #213
Indeed. progressoid Mar 2016 #244
It's also interesting that no one else thought that Vattel's post was interesting, after all these kath Mar 2016 #255
Seems the major and repeated point in the article is Bernie threw shade at Obama. EndElectoral Mar 2016 #131
That's not "throwing shade", most of Sanders critiques of Obama were unfair at best and included uponit7771 Mar 2016 #132
There was never more shade thrown at Obama than by the person who ran against him 2008 whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #140
That was a political campaign where shade is expected, even if they were best friends it would be... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #142
Sure whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #143
Facts matter, that's what I say uponit7771 Mar 2016 #144
Why did she run against him? whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #146
in 2008 she being Clinton and he being Obama... that's a known, what are you really asking here? uponit7771 Mar 2016 #148
Yeah... whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #152
Or that he would get poor kids jobs sl they wont be hanging on street corners? bravenak Mar 2016 #164
Not the same, bravenak whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #174
They were all ill considered and much more recent bravenak Mar 2016 #176
"Throwing shade" seems to mean criticizing Obama from the left. Cowpunk Mar 2016 #247
The author is younger than I am, and I was about six in 1988 bravenak Mar 2016 #133
Sanders has barely made a dent during his long political career pandr32 Mar 2016 #135
Yep bravenak Mar 2016 #137
Agreed! pandr32 Mar 2016 #196
AMEN!!! - " What has he shown us as a senator in the mighty state of Vermont to support this type of uponit7771 Mar 2016 #149
Apparently Democrats in Vermont disagree with you. JDPriestly Mar 2016 #264
Rec. nt LexVegas Mar 2016 #136
One of the better opinion pieces I have seen lately comradebillyboy Mar 2016 #139
I loved it bravenak Mar 2016 #155
K&R ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #156
It really does relate to much more than just this bravenak Mar 2016 #157
Me too ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #168
Very good article MaggieD Mar 2016 #160
Finally people are saying it more and more bravenak Mar 2016 #175
Then why post this spiteful, nihilist, anonymous blogger stuff? KeepItReal Mar 2016 #167
What specifically do you object to? ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #169
Posting an blog that attacks both Democratic Primary candidates KeepItReal Mar 2016 #179
Why do you spend time worried about what I discuss? bravenak Mar 2016 #172
This is a GD-P post that is highly Rec'd. So I read it. KeepItReal Mar 2016 #182
Ok. You do not like it. Ok. bravenak Mar 2016 #186
Feel free to respond to my post #167. Or not. It's a free country. KeepItReal Mar 2016 #189
Not probably bravenak Mar 2016 #192
I love this blog. This was my favorite part: PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #173
More like the High Sparrow to me but Ned Stark fits too bravenak Mar 2016 #177
It all comes down to this. HassleCat Mar 2016 #191
Yep bravenak Mar 2016 #193
Thank you for implementing this piece to the board bravenak. serbbral Mar 2016 #200
What I got out of the article: "Lesser of two evils ... she is more beholden to the black vote" floppyboo Mar 2016 #204
I see it as being used... TCJ70 Mar 2016 #208
but that's just it - the author DOES expect something floppyboo Mar 2016 #211
That's a little cynical... TCJ70 Mar 2016 #214
Great article! I'm glad someone finally said the following: lunamagica Mar 2016 #210
Just curious... TCJ70 Mar 2016 #212
They don't disquilify him, but they would have disqualified PBO and HRC lunamagica Mar 2016 #223
That's a ridiculous statement. The leaps of logic are amazing. Armstead Mar 2016 #216
The author of the article is arguably sexist floppyboo Mar 2016 #219
No one said racist or sexist Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #220
You may have a point there but i still disagree with the premise Armstead Mar 2016 #222
True...quite frankly, I personally DO like some of those more "ethnic traits" of Bernie's Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #245
Honestly, her churchiness bothers me more than any of his traits ever could. bravenak Mar 2016 #262
See reply #223 lunamagica Mar 2016 #224
It's still BS Armstead Mar 2016 #226
Your 'guesses and "coulhaves" don't invalidate the facts as they are lunamagica Mar 2016 #228
Niether of us will ever know Armstead Mar 2016 #229
Do you really believe that women and PoC are playing on the same level as white men? lunamagica Mar 2016 #230
No I don't. Armstead Mar 2016 #231
I see you didn't real my post. The "quirkiness" (and there's a reson I put in in quotes) lunamagica Mar 2016 #232
I did read your post Armstead Mar 2016 #236
I don't know how we go into this point. My post was in reference to this in the OP lunamagica Mar 2016 #242
Thanks. SusanCalvin Mar 2016 #215
Good opinion piece, Bravenak. Thanks for posting it. kwassa Mar 2016 #225
You've GOT to look down ticket! floppyboo Mar 2016 #227
Without Congress, neither Hillary or Bernie can get much done. kwassa Mar 2016 #233
With Congress, either Hillary or Bernie can get much done. "in the beginning was the word" floppyboo Mar 2016 #235
Good points, many already addressed though Rebkeh Mar 2016 #237
That thing y'all do where you call us naive? bravenak Mar 2016 #259
Funny, smart blog post. wildeyed Mar 2016 #241
Good read. Thanks for posting... SidDithers Mar 2016 #248
Ahhh, so this is why the MLK quotes are popping back up again. Number23 Mar 2016 #251
Actually my Martin Luther King thread came before this one. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #256
They can't stop bravenak Mar 2016 #258

Response to bravenak (Original post)

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
2. If it is they can fuck off. I feel confident saying Sanders doesn't want those kind of people.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:32 AM
Mar 2016

I realize Sanders has had trouble reaching AA voters, but I sincerely hope its a difference over issues. I can accept that, but I think it would be vile for him to lose due to perceived racism that simply isn't their on his part.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
7. Personally, I think its the 40 Acres and a Mule offering
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:38 AM
Mar 2016

But I'm just one AA person, so don't take it to mean anymore than just me saying this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110744376

Cha

(295,929 posts)
68. Sorry, you got a hide, Frenchie. The good news is they can't suspend anyone anymore with their
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:41 AM
Mar 2016

incessant alerting on anything that doesn't show BS in a good light.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,705 posts)
112. That had to be the worst hide in the world.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:24 AM
Mar 2016

The gentleman on that facebook page is a cretinous , racist moron.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,705 posts)
163. It was only hidden because folks didn't want to discuss the content.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:53 AM
Mar 2016

And I have seen that sentiment expressed before, just not as overtly and ham handedly.



Number23

(24,544 posts)
252. That's it. These guys have burned 1000 calories pretending that Sanders supporters like that guy
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:14 PM
Mar 2016

don't actually exist.

And for someone to show -- for the 8,357,254 time -- that they actually DO exist and it was a black woman doing it, obviously some couldn't have that.

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
95. a bit of clarification
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:48 AM
Mar 2016

no one really thinks that sanders is gonna make college free his first term
electing him is largely symbolic
then again, unlike hillary, he doesn't also have to craft his speeches to please his corporate constituents
cheers

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
238. We don't have time for electing a candidate based on a "largely symbolic" platform.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:22 PM
Mar 2016

After 8 years of obstruction, we need a candidate with a platform that is realistic and who knows how to reach across the aisle and get things done. The time for symbolism has come and gone.

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
260. apparently monsieur sanders has been doing just this all these years
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:02 AM
Mar 2016

with his amendments
frankly i don't think "reaching across the aisle" works, look how it turned out for obama

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
254. B represents change
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:22 PM
Mar 2016

and he will fight for change. When folks do you finally want to start change. You must be pretty happy with the status quo.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,705 posts)
117. Skinner should unhide it so we can discuss it.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:01 AM
Mar 2016

Frenchie is citing what somebody else wrote. We need to flesh it out.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
138. Discuss it? We all know there are racist morons in the world
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:52 AM
Mar 2016

That post only has value as an associative smear, feeding the disgusting lies and memes about the nature of Bernie supporters that have been a cornerstone of this campaign. It's obvious why you want to "discuss it".

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
209. Yeah unhide it
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:19 PM
Mar 2016


You have no idea if this is really a Bernie supporter yet of course you believe it to be 100% true SMH....

dsc

(52,130 posts)
246. wow just wow on that hide
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 06:30 PM
Mar 2016

I hope some of those jurors have happen to them what is supposed to be happening when they vote in bad faith, because that was manifestly bad faith.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
11. I agree
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:42 AM
Mar 2016

I think this type of stuff hurts him. His advisors are doing him wrong in my opinion. They do not effectively manage his mesage.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
34. Yeah, about that "not managing the message" thing...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:06 AM
Mar 2016

This thread makes me think of this commercial for some reason.

Cha

(295,929 posts)
84. lol.. they got over it and united to make pull our country out of the hell hole that bush left.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 06:20 AM
Mar 2016

BS fans can't wrap their heads around that.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
89. Funny how people forget the smoking ruins that Bush and the republicans
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:41 AM
Mar 2016

left this country in after 8 years of teabag hell.

Then the republicans promised to fight and obstruct President Obama 24/7 and the scum still do to this day.

Refusing to vote on his SCOTUS pick is their latest unconstitutional, anti-american stunt.

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
93. history lesson:
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:46 AM
Mar 2016

teabaggers were the right's response to a black president. no hide or hair of them before 2008.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
111. Birthers too
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:21 AM
Mar 2016

Trump himself is one of the lead Birthers, wonder how many AA votes that scumball thinks hes gonna get in the GE?

The campaign ads just write themselves on that asshole Trump!!

Cha

(295,929 posts)
249. Right treestar.. a true friendship ensued.. did you see that vapid comment above..?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 07:40 PM
Mar 2016

Because "probably because their lawyers told them to.. " You can't make this shite up..

Thank you for the Pic!

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
40. Why is "Hillary Clinton is a liar" in quotations
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:10 AM
Mar 2016

When Barack Obama never said that?

And what does this have to do with Bernie Sanders, and this article of why Black folks aren't impressed with Bernie Sanders?

George II

(67,782 posts)
150. You could also post a picture of Obama hugging Clinton with a HUGE Obama-esque grin...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:17 AM
Mar 2016

....on his face, and maybe even some of his glowing comments he said about Clinton.

They're easy to find.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
207. Of course this type of stuff hurts him...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:15 PM
Mar 2016

...it's why the Hillary supporters here are so eager to post and "discuss" it.

We are shown an image but no link, so there is no way to verify who the person is or what other things they have to say.

On first blush I would say it looks like ratf***ing. But even if not, even if that person is sincerely as racist as they appear to be, I would not accept them as a Bernie supporter. As a fervent Bernie supporter myself, I say we don't need that person or anyone who thinks like they do.

Now I have a question for you: in what universe does this have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with "his advisors"????? In what universe does this have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with "managing his message"???

Random posts on the Internet are NOT UNDER THE CONTROL OF BERNIE'S ADVISORS or anyone else for that matter. Using this sort of thing as a smear against Sanders and his supporters is low. Not surprising, of course, considering the source; but low.

Cha

(295,929 posts)
4. OFFS. He did not say this!!!! there really are no words for that depth of stupid.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:34 AM
Mar 2016

My Black friends know who they want to vote for and it's not BS.

Cha

(295,929 posts)
6. The problem for bernie is.. it's not the AA voters fault they don't like him .. it's his fault.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:37 AM
Mar 2016

Starting with wanting President Obama primaried in 2012 and the continual disingenuous bashing of him right up until NOW.

Thanks brave~

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
90. "Starting with wanting President Obama primaried in 2012..."
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:44 AM
Mar 2016

Bernie killed all chances for winning the democratic base with that stunt.

Of course at that time he was still slamming the democratic party as no better than the republican party.

comradebillyboy

(10,119 posts)
141. Do you really want Bernie to be accountable for his
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:01 AM
Mar 2016

own unforced errors? Blaming Bernie for Bernie's campaign errors just lets Clinton off the hook because we all know every screw up by the Sanders team is Hillary's fault.

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
240. Great post Cha
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:31 PM
Mar 2016

It is not AA voters fault that they do not feel the bern. There are many people who are not buying what Sanders is selling

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
10. As a Black and Pinoy person...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:42 AM
Mar 2016

I feel as though Bernie represents the values that matter deeply in our respective communities. I may not agree with some of the criticisms but it is fair that criticism does strengthen the subject of the critiquing more often than not. His message really hits home in that poverty-stricken neighbourhoods strongly affect the AA community and with his ideas, these areas can see major improvements. Personally, I am tired of hearing about how we should settle for less and keep the status-quo. We need to reboot our economy and political structure and Bernie Sanders IMO is the right person for the job.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
13. If only Bernie had a plan besides a convenient political revolution
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:43 AM
Mar 2016

that has not manifested as of now, that would be helpful...doncha think?
especially since he says that's the only way he can do what he promises.....

Just sayin'...

Did you ever read this that I wrote a while back?
I'd like your take on it.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118744812

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
18. Well..
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:52 AM
Mar 2016

He has a solid criminal justice reform plan. However, he could maybe infiltrate a plan involving rebuilding AA jobs, AA schools, AA path to owning businesses, etc. The only problem is that it would be considered pandering and it would look as if Bernie is somewhat disingenuous. I hope he does continue to rail on AA issues he has addressed thus far and I think his ideas, although indirectly, truly help the AA community the most.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
31. Well, it's a bit late to....
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:04 AM
Mar 2016

to infiltrate a plan involving rebuilding AA jobs, AA schools, AA path to owning businesses, etc.

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
38. It's never too late....
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:08 AM
Mar 2016

if you truly care about those issues to lay out plans. It'll show that he's thinking beyond just winning states, it'll show that these ideas can co-exist and are tenets of a political revolution.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
96. A big problem is that Bernie has never evidence any interest in these issues until he started
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:49 AM
Mar 2016

running for President. Certainly, it can be said that this may be because he's from Vermont. But that's the problem. Black folks aren't waiting for a great white savior to sweep down from Vermont to rescue us. He hasn't been in the trenches with us but now is trying to convince us that he has all of the answers. It rings hollow and makes him seem clueless and condescending.

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
199. That's not entirely true.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:46 PM
Mar 2016

Although he's been a politician from Vermont, he has fought for Black folks through the Civil Rights Era to addressing how different trade policies, disastrous drug policies and economic injustices hinder the AA community. He's not perfect, but his honesty with the AA community is something I respect from him greatly.

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
22. I read the piece
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:57 AM
Mar 2016

I truly understand its premise, however we can't ignore that poverty has hindered our community time and time again. We have to address that and other institutionally racist issues in this nation before going forward with the idea that we are equal footing with whites/elites.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
25. I think racism has hindered our community....
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:59 AM
Mar 2016

as it is what leads to poverty....
lack of a level playing field, discrimination in employment and housing....
etc., etc., etc.....

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
29. I agree.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:03 AM
Mar 2016

I also think that instead of trying to just change racism in America, we could at least change what we can in the process. If this means that we'll gonna be in this fight for the long haul, then so be it cuz I'll be fighting. However, we have to keep addressing poverty, unnecessary imprisonment and so on if we're going to get to that ultimate goal of eroding racism in our politics.

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
33. Absolutely!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:06 AM
Mar 2016

It's how we can make this nation better. This status-quo stuff has got to change quickly if the AA community wants to progress.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
36. when a candidate is not willing to entertain reparation....
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:08 AM
Mar 2016

because it would be too hard to pass,
but is willing to entertain so many other promises that are un-passable too,
makes it hard for me to see that race ever played a part in his agenda to begin with....
from where I sit.

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
44. Yeah I was disappointed in him for that.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:14 AM
Mar 2016

I was also disappointed in Obama when he shared those similar ideas. Both deserve criticism for that, although as of now, the best reparations program is social equality and economic justice. Otherwise, we need to keep pushing Obama and Sanders to get on board with those ideas.
From your second part, the promises are not un-passable if people are willing to fight and lobby their representatives/senators. That's how a democracy is SUPPOSED to work, but we need people in the government who are willing to represent the voiceless. It's happened before in this nation, especially during the Civil Rights Era, and I'm damn sure we can fight now more than ever.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
19. I respect and appreciate your views.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:54 AM
Mar 2016

It's a difficult thing because there is so much overheated rhetoric. It's best we remain grateful for our differences and our similarities. I too like Sanders and feel his message is outstanding. I've gotten frustrated with some of his outlandish or ignorant supporters' more outrageous claims. But then I've felt the same about some of the more boisterous Clinton supporters' claims as well.

I've examined this from different sides and started out a Sanders supporter. Then I went to undecided and then to Clinton, and now I'm coming back around to Sanders. My state's primary is in June. I probably won't make up my mind until the day before our primary. I'm coming to a conclusion similar to yours. I will vote in November too. Actually that one means most to me including the congressional races. Thanks for your post.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
27. I'm doing that as best I can too!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:02 AM
Mar 2016

In my little local area. I'm going to make damn sure my friends vote in the primaries and in November. Hope you enjoy a great weekend.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
16. This part is good:
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:47 AM
Mar 2016
We are not impressed with the fact that he is supported by Killer Mike or any black celebrity for that matter. Did you really care that Adam Levine supported Barrack Obama…so why the hell do you think we give a shit that Killer Mike rocks with Bernie? Don’t get us wrong we love Mike, but you and him are fools if you think trotting his ass out there is going to impress us.


LOL.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
20. I'm just starting to read it now.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:56 AM
Mar 2016

I agree it's funny as heck. I like reading differing views. I'm picturing this writer as a great stand-up comedian with a lot of good points that hit home.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
28. The line about Iggy Azalea made me laugh out loud.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:03 AM
Mar 2016

This one too: 'Lots of our aunts and uncles took the same damn pictures, and we wouldn’t think that made them qualified to be president either.'

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
35. I know what you mean.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:07 AM
Mar 2016

Seriously, some of those photos just had me going: wtf? that is some crazy shit right there. I love that about great humor. Makes you think & laugh at the same time. Don't sell yourself short. Some of the stuff you write gets me laughing my ass off too.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
37. We could have our own show on comedy central
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:08 AM
Mar 2016

We are very funny. I still think about your talk like Trump thing. Oh hell yeah.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
42. I wanna be Keyed!!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:13 AM
Mar 2016

Or make it like broad city but with me and you. We could terrorize an entire city!! Think of the fun!!

shadowandblossom

(718 posts)
49. Thanks for sharing.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:27 AM
Mar 2016

It was interesting to read. Still learning and growing but there are some things I think I'm just not going to get. Here is another person's perspective on the same subject that I came across when I was curious about the demographic differences going on with voting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/472fj6/why_isnt_bernie_sanders_doing_well_with_black/

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
60. Every Thanksgiving he tells us his next plan
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:01 AM
Mar 2016

First he's going to study HVAC repair. Then he's going to do the IBEW apprenticeship*. Then he's going to be a paralegal. Then he's going to get TIPS certification and bartend until he can save up to open his own bar. Then...

All of these ideas are perfectly good ideas, but they have two things in common:

1. He mistakenly believes that if he can just make one of them happen, his horrific lack of financial discipline will no longer be relevant

2. He never does them even though he's perfectly capable of it. He lights up and plays World of Warcraft until he has to put on his hairnet and nametag for the next shift.

* side note to anybody looking for work: there is no age limit on the IBEW apprenticeship program, and halls literally all over the country are absolutely hurting for apprentices. My brother can't man his jobs and wants me to tell anybody interested to stop dreaming and go for it.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
98. Like my cousin who always has a great idea and wants me to help him "find a government grant"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:55 AM
Mar 2016

to fund it. No business plan, no design, no budget, no staff, but he wants someone to invest in his "vision."

Cha

(295,929 posts)
57. Ouch! I remember both these conversations being held recently..
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:54 AM
Mar 2016
"But despite all of his rhetoric, and the fact that his state hardly has any black citizens, black people in Vermont are 10 times more likely to be locked up than white people. The aforementioned Louisiana has a 4.7 for that same number. By the way how the fuck you gonna hate on Hillary for hitting the dab but not call out Bernie for riding around with Killer Mike in South Carolina. Pandering is pandering right?"

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
62. It looks to me like Fiq Blerdman holds a cynical, conservative ideology, has given up
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:12 AM
Mar 2016

on the ability for people of all races to grow and unite preferring to stay with the "comfortable" status quo establishment even though he condemns it as well.



True Hillary has some shit in her past. I’m pretty sure she says nigger when we’re not around. But you know what. You do to. Real talk we don’t really trust none of yall politicians black or white. All of yall are full of shit to us. All this pie in the sky revolution nonsense sounds like Iggy Azalea rapping Blacker the Berry in our ears. None of you cared so much about our vote until you realized it affected your desires for who you wanted the white house.



Fiq states a contradictory point of view



To all the Berniephiles out there the following message is for you. Warning: contrary to popular belief, black people are not a monolith so what I offer here is pure speculation.

It really comes down to this: Black people are not impressed with Bernie Sanders.



Furthermore he is wrong about Jessie Jackson

Black people did vote for him as did the overwhelming white state of Vermont for example, Jessie was only the second African American to run for the Presidency after Shirley Chisholm and he came closest to being nominated for the Presidency up until Senator Obama ran 20 years later.

Jessie won three-five contests in 1984 and eleven states in 1988 before he dropped out during a time when African Americans made up a smaller % of our nation's population.

As for my own beliefs, I don't blame African Americans, in my book the corporate media conglomerates are the primary culprit and Fiq despite his cynical belief of white society in general and government's treatment of African Americans poses no query as to this exclusive club of white billionaires' propaganda power in shaping people of all races' perception.

Bernie while still not where he wants or needs to be, does better with African Americans in the North than those in the South, would more conservative media in the South play a role in this?

I believe so.

Thanks for the thread, bravenak.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
63. I think he's right about both, we are not a monolith and we like the Clintons
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:20 AM
Mar 2016

We do not all vote the same but about eighty percent of us do, more in the deep south. Our reasons for this voting patter is terribly complex and needs to be viewed through the lens of race.

When the Clintons came in we had just spent eight years in the seven hells with reagan. The switch to the Clintons was like a dawn of a new day. He actually liked us. And worked with us. Not everything went well but we can deal with them because they respect us. They need us. They do not tell us what we need they ask us what we need.

See, we do not look up at billionaires as the oligarchy. We look at the white power structures our oligarchy. At white supremacy and institutional racism as our oligarchy. Unless you are willing to recognize our oligarchy as just as bad as yours, we cannot join you.

Cha

(295,929 posts)
65. "Conservative".. Yeah, I don't.. he's straight up saying why he's not Impressed with BS. For
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:25 AM
Mar 2016

actually the same reasons I'm not.

Doesn't make him conservative now does it?

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
76. "Conservative"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:08 AM
Mar 2016


1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

2. cautiously moderate or purposefully low:
a conservative estimate.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conservative?s=t

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
78. I don't see how supporting someone who has a strong possibility of being Americas first woman ...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:14 AM
Mar 2016

... president as conservative or wanting the status quo.

Only from a mostly white male perspective can mindset be grasped, she was right... how in the hell is she part of the establishment

The racial and gender establishment in the DNC is having its temper tantrum right now and bucking agianst the true revolution, hopefully they'll calm down before Nov

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
79. So if Carly Fiorina or Sarah Palin were elected that would progressive or liberal because
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:29 AM
Mar 2016

they're women?

The same could be said for Margaret Thatcher.

I'm not suggesting that Hillary is their equivalent on the political scale but electing a first of anything is only of symbolic importance, in and of itself has no bearing on whether something is liberal, moderate, progressive or conservative.

As for the establishment argument, gender is the only difference in regards to Hillary, she is most certainly part of our dysfunctional establishment.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
82. No, it wouldn't be conservative though and Hillary is not Thatcher... not on any scale, that's ...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:35 AM
Mar 2016

... ignoring her mostly progressive past and history and just going along with the bash Hillary cause she's Hillary crowd.

Her mostly progressive record is established and noted... a myriad of times in sundry places.

Gender is a big difference and Sanders being part of DC for damn near 30 years doesn't delineate him from her.

I've been consistent; I'm not going to vote for slightly better in 3 or 4 categories

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
83. Hillary's tendency for regime change, tacit support for military coup and waging war in
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 06:15 AM
Mar 2016

deference to corporate interests over the people both here and abroad, unfettered free trade, exorbitant speaking fees, the Clinton Foundation's ties to weapon sales, welfare reform, supporting mass incarceration, her ties to lobbyists with the for profit prison industry, the Keystone Pipeline, fracking, super pacs, mega-donors from Wall Street, support of the for profit "health" insurance industry's stranglehold on health care and a host of other issues suggest otherwise.

Hillary's penchant for regime change and waging war is not more liberal or progressive than Thatcher.

Bernie has consistently argued against war except in rare cases insofar as going into Afghanistan to take on Al Qaueda after 9/11 and Bosnia to prevent massacre, with Bernie war has been and is a last resort.

Bernie's long career and if you wish I will provide video evidence has been in championing the downtrodden, those living in poverty, rebuilding our middle class, taking on the big banks and their reckless speculation which crashed our economy, being against our dysfunctional campaign finance system and the mega-dollars corrupting influence on the electoral process and in turn our government, Bernie has promoted the fight against climate change much more aggressively than Hillary citing it in a debate as the greatest threat against our nation.

These are just some of the critical issues that separate the candidates regardless of gender, it's more than 3 or 4 categories and they have profound impacts on our society.

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
69. It's closer to 70% in the North and Bernie's message is all inclusive, in telling the "nation"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:47 AM
Mar 2016

what we need, after decades of listening and Bernie's economic policy proposals meshes with what Martin Luther King said we need.



Fiq criticizes Bernie for doing what you state he doesn't, when Black Lives Matter interrupted his rally, Bernie ceded the podium and for some time let them speak their mind, Fiq views this as a sign of weakness not strength, I disagree on that point, Bernie listened.

Fiq is gravely mistaken if he believes that Bernie would grant the same courtesy to a Republican interrupter.



Afterward Bernie met with African Americans including members of BLM in regards to their needs and addressed it in every speech since in regards to institutional racism and how our nation needs to address these injustices.

The white power structures are controlled by the billionaires, as in the case of the corporate media conglomerates giving billions of dollars in free airtime to the racist Trump, always playing on race in the "horse race" as a divider instead of the critical issues of the day including institutional racism, poverty, climate change the corruption of government from mega dollars, you can't effectively take on the former without challenging the latter.

The billionaire oligarchy which has overwhelming control of our government and the electoral process will never cede white power structures except on a most superficial basis, their power springs from keeping the people divided.



 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
105. Drop the mic, Bravenak!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:02 AM
Mar 2016

"Unless you are willing to recognize our oligarchy as just as bad as yours, we cannot join you."

Damn.


 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
108. I been hoping that repeating it might help them get it
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:05 AM
Mar 2016

But.... Yeah right.


I like that pic I'm gonna copy it.

Cha

(295,929 posts)
64. I made a comment there.. it isn't showing up yet.. but this is what I said..
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:22 AM
Mar 2016
"So much of what you're saying it absolutely what I've seen from my AA cyber friends.

Thank you, Fiq. I'm pretty sure Hillary does not insult African Americans when they're not around, though.

As a Scotch Irish lass I can say BS throwing shade on President Obama was what turned me totally of his rhetoric.. He wanted Obama primaried in 2012 for disingenuous bullshite. Shows me his thinking isn't sound and he's proven that to be more than true ever since".


We are not impressed by Bernie’s lack of polish and quirky persona. Do you know why Barrack Obama is the president right now? It’s greatly because he played the political game masterfully. You know why he played the game masterfully? Because as a talented African American I’m sure that years prior someone let him know he had to be twice as good in order to get half as much as the Bernie’s of the world. In his case he is three times as good so he became a two term president, who again Bernie had the nerve to throw shade at. I could say the same for Hillary Clinton. When you aren’t a straight, white, male legislating in arguably the whitest state in the country, you might come across a situation where you need learn how to wear a decent suit, how to speak with more finesse, and avoid odd tics in your speaking presence just so you can be taken seriously. When you’re black or a woman you don’t have the privilege of being quirky if you want to be a leader. The fact that Bernie flaunts these obvious flaws as some type of endearing trait lets us know that he really doesn’t get it.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
66. Good comment
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:25 AM
Mar 2016

That was the stuff I disagreed with myself.

And that other stuff? The excerpt? Spot on. It bothers me that she has to watch everthing she wears but he can just come as is and it's called authentic. She could not do that.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
75. yeap, shit we said damn near a year ago is still being said today about Sanders. The white gender
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:04 AM
Mar 2016

... establishment in the DNC will get over their temper tantrum soon though... well, most of them I hope.

I’m pretty sure she says nigger when we’re not around. But you know what. You do to.


lofl !! This is exactly what my brother said!!!

qdouble

(891 posts)
80. I think the points made in the article were excellent.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:31 AM
Mar 2016

Beyond that, a very large portion of black voters aren't far left liberals or socialists... Hillary being a moderate democrat makes her way more representative of 30+ year old black voters than Bernie. The reason why the overwhelming majority of blacks identify or lean democrat is it would make no sense to associate with a the party of racists (republicans)... not because blacks are hyper-liberal.

Also, even though there were unintended consequences behind some of the Clinton's policies in the 90's, most blacks who are old enough to remember that time period won't buy into the slander that Bill/Hillary don't care about black people. Their connection to the black community is much more evident than posting a civil rights picture of Bernie that no one was aware of.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
91. I LOVE this piece! It expresses what so many of us have been saying
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:44 AM
Mar 2016

Especially this:

"We are not impressed with the fact that he took a few pictures with civil rights leaders. Jessie Jackson was on the balcony with Martin when he got shot and we didn’t vote for him. Al Sharpton made his career in the streets and we didn’t vote for him. We appreciate Bernie’s contribution to the movement but it’s gonna take more. Lots of our aunts and uncles took the same damn pictures, and we wouldn’t think that made them qualified to be president either. The fact that you keep throwing this stuff out there starts to sound like when white people say “some of my best friends are black”. Also heard one of them photos wasn’t really Bernie but you keep posting it anyway."


and this:

"it isn’t hard to have a progressive voting record in one of the whitest and most liberal states in the country. When a state has less than 630,000 people and is 96% white with the vast majority of them being liberals, how hard could it be to vote to support affirmative action? There’s no black people in your state to even be mad at over it."


and this:

"He sounds like that one uncle who always has a business idea but no business plan and no bank loan."


and this:

"We don’t think he will heroically pry power from a system that he worked in for 25 years without making a dent. Why should we truly believe that Sanders of all people is the one to accomplish this? What has he shown us as a senator in the mighty state of Vermont to support this type of gumption?"


Did I mention I love this piece?

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
97. Hey Bravenak - posting for the sake of transparency and btw it was a thought provoking piece.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:53 AM
Mar 2016

On Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:31 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Very intersting opinion piece by a Black man on the Sanders campaign
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511529186

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is not an opinion piece, it is a hit piece. The whole article is garbage, but what stands out as making this over-the-top and inappropriate is the overtone of a swiftboating campaign against the well documented civil rights record of Bernie Sanders. Reducing it to "he took pictures with MLK" and whatnot. I should add that I seriously doubt that the author of this piece is who he claims to be. Game of Thrones references? WTF? - The person who posted the article is a well known serial disruptor, who would be on a timeout right now if not for the pardon issued by the admins (see Transparency page), and who has openly admitted that she believes none of the things she posts but does so only to generate negative responses ("trolling&quot . Shit like this fits that pattern exactly.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:40 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: frankly i think the blogpost is crap, but i'm sick of all the hides here
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see you alerter. This is of course an opinion piece and Bravenak states that she doesn't agree with it all. What's the problem?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The bros will hide this, but for no reason. It's an opinion piece, it makes some very good points. The poster was very clear about the fact that all might not like it. It won't last in the echo chamber, though, regardless of the changes to the "new DU."
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing wrong with the DU post. I didn't read the article though.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
107. Please consider hitting the alert button on that
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:03 AM
Mar 2016

alert. If you do,this bogus alert will go to Admins to review and they can see who made the alert.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
103. Results...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:01 AM
Mar 2016

On Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:31 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Very intersting opinion piece by a Black man on the Sanders campaign
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511529186

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is not an opinion piece, it is a hit piece. The whole article is garbage, but what stands out as making this over-the-top and inappropriate is the overtone of a swiftboating campaign against the well documented civil rights record of Bernie Sanders. Reducing it to "he took pictures with MLK" and whatnot. I should add that I seriously doubt that the author of this piece is who he claims to be. Game of Thrones references? WTF? - The person who posted the article is a well known serial disruptor, who would be on a timeout right now if not for the pardon issued by the admins (see Transparency page), and who has openly admitted that she believes none of the things she posts but does so only to generate negative responses ("trolling&quot . Shit like this fits that pattern exactly.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:40 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: frankly i think the blogpost is crap, but i'm sick of all the hides here
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see you alerter. This is of course an opinion piece and Bravenak states that she doesn't agree with it all. What's the problem?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The bros will hide this, but for no reason. It's an opinion piece, it makes some very good points. The poster was very clear about the fact that all might not like it. It won't last in the echo chamber, though, regardless of the changes to the "new DU."
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing wrong with the DU post. I didn't read the article though.

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
110. That article wasn't illuminating at all
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:19 AM
Mar 2016
True Hillary has some shit in her past. I’m pretty sure she says nigger when we’re not around. But you know what. You do to.

I don't. It begs an interesting question though, if video had emerged of Sanders going on some horrible racist rant decades ago, would that be considered as irrelevant as the photos of him in civil rights protests? I'll bet not.

The author justifies his claims about Sanders' image with the black community by filtering everything through his own perception, often distorting the past. For example:

We are not impressed with the fact that he took a few pictures with civil rights leaders.

Sanders did far more than pose for some photographs.

A lot of dubious rationalization:

Secondly, it isn’t hard to have a progressive voting record in one of the whitest and most liberal states in the country.

He's attacking Sanders for living in the wrong place.

And he managed to put in a few straight-up lies as well:

We don’t think he will heroically pry power from a system that he worked in for 25 years without making a dent.

The whole article is packed with bullshit. Hey, it's his article--he can write whatever he wants and hold any opinion he likes. But as far as illuminating why Sanders has such poor appeal in the black community, it's not very helpful.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
124. Look
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:12 AM
Mar 2016

Imma just say, that I agree. I do not think either think that or say that to themselves. Or to anyone. That is why I put a disclaimer saying it was controversial and I do not agree with everything.

1. If we found a rant of ANYBODY from 40 years ago, I do not think it would be very relevant at all, except maybe to show how much growth they had achieved in the intervening years. So, yes, pretty much, it would be irrelevany in my view. I think Robert Byrd shows that people can change.

2. Of course it is through his own filter, he is a minority and we often view thing differently than whites do. I can say from anecdotal experience, he is correct as far as I can tell you. We are very hard to impress. People need to remember, we came from slaves. Many if us can track our families back to the plantations we came from, at least on one branch or another. We have stories passed down of ancestors running to freedom through grave danger. Or living in jim crow. Or a lynched relative. We are HARD TO IMPRESS. Our lives are a march for freedom, our existance is a revolutionary act in itself. Getting arrested for just living our lives is a fact of life. No protest photos will impress people who have to protest just to get served at Denny's.

3. Sanders had a choice of where to live and chose there. I have no idea what the issue is here.

4. What dent has he made in the system?

It is an opinion piece.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
145. A question I can never get a good answer to
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:08 AM
Mar 2016

If participating in the civil rights movement 50 years ago is irrelevant now, does that apply to the participation of people like John Lewis and Jessie Jackson as well? Or is it only the white jew who is irrelevant?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
147. They continued the fight their enire lives
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:14 AM
Mar 2016

They are still in it fighting for marginalized African americans. Nobody deserves more credit for black liberation THAN BLACKS DO THEMSELVES. So this thing where folks want to make it a contest, or try to force us to be enthralled, is quite bizarre and off putting. It almost feels like people think we own him something, and that we are INGRATES, if we are not super dooper facinated by his civil rights record. We often save the top billing for OUR OWN civil rights heroes and do not like people trying to force us to be extra grateful. We thank him for his help but that is not a reason to vote for anybody.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
151. Nobody would disagree that no one is more central to the struggle than the oppressed themselves
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:25 AM
Mar 2016

It's true. That said, the wholesale rejection of Sanders early participation mostly seems to be a way to neutralize him so Hillary can look as good.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
154. It is less of a rejection and more of a response to the constant shoving of him at us based
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:35 AM
Mar 2016

on that history. It is offensive to constantly be told that because some guy marched years ago, you cannot criticize him ever. Nothing he says is wrong. In fact, if he makes a mistake, back out comes the "HE MARCHED FOR YOUR RIGHTS!', mantra, and they attack and attack the actual black person over civil rights in the name of 'correcting the record'.

It is at the point where if you even think about criticizing him they will track you down to ever site u ever posted on and try to use old posts to use as a club to try to intimidate you from criticizing Bernie. They will harass civil rights legends and call them sell outs as if Bernie is the civil rights legend and John Lewis is merely a background player. They call him the heir of MLK. They will send letters to my home. I am no where NEAR THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCED IT. If you are black and aware politically, and not a bernie supporter? You have most certinly experienced it full blast. Why is he not fighting for our rights? Why is he silent with all of this oppression going on? Why does he refuse to answrr questions about how blacks are tired of the stuff they deal with in his name? Where is he? Does he know and not care? If he does not know, why pick him to lead?

I find him to be DISTANT. A civil rights champ or leader ALWAYS worries about how marginalized folks are treated AMONG HIS OWN RANKS AND BASE. I am SKEPTICAL

I am absolutely sick of dealing with anything to do with him at this point. It is a wash in my view.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
162. I find part of what you're saying true and part untrue
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:52 AM
Mar 2016

True - It was a mistake for white progressives to throw his participation (minimal or not) at black voters. I can see it was obnoxious and insulting, and it didn't help.

Untrue - "I am absolutely sick of dealing with anything to do with him at this point."

Sorry, but your posting habits say otherwise.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
166. When I get sick of something?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:58 AM
Mar 2016

I fight it until it is DONE. We can either end this shit and move on and everybody stop and get it together, or people like me can point it out day after day after day after day after day after day after day until people are tired of the people who act like that ruining shit for everybody. Because I refuse to suffer in silence or to ignore it. By the time my kids die, I want this type of shit to be a distant memory. If I have to run my mouth until people beg me to please stfu, I will.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
178. Well... if you think Hillary Clinton is the path to that better place
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

I encourage you to walk it. I personally don't agree, and will seek a different path to a better world. Peace.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
181. We make our own paths
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:09 PM
Mar 2016

Anybody putting faith in a politician to solve shit is screwed before they start walkin

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
187. Hard to argue with that
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:14 PM
Mar 2016

From one shit stirrer to another, good tussle. Some of your responses did give me some things to ponder.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
184. Here's a good answer
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:11 PM
Mar 2016

You have to actually give a damn and do something AFTER the marching is over. It's the exact same thing with LGBT people.

And you want to really piss people off? Ignore them and then tell your supporters that you were a "champion" for those you ignored.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
194. You know...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:20 PM
Mar 2016

To cast Bernie as a giant of the civil rights movement is a mistake. For me, his history is about character. And yes, real character is still present after 50 years. That's the meaning of what he did back then.

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
257. Thanks for the response
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:47 PM
Mar 2016

Point-by-point:

1. I'm glad to hear that, but you're exceptional. A video like that would be used to crucify any politician in the public eye.

2. The photos aren't the point. During the civil rights era, white people in Sanders' position were pressured to just go with the flow and treat black people like dirt. Sanders demonstrated that in the face of that kind of pressure he has the morality and follow-through to tell people around him that they're wrong. Going so far as getting arrested. The photos are simply proof of that.

Sanders hasn't been parading around those photos for political gain all these years, though he certainly could have, so I find it hard to believe that his history could be fairly summed up as "protest photos."

And they're consistent with his behavior over the years--he opposed the Iraq war when nearly everyone was shouting "traitor" at him. Turns out he was right. He opposed DOMA when everyone was shouting at him. Turns out he was right. And he has been making noise about income inequality since he's been in the public eye despite people mocking him and calling him a kook--and today everyone's talking about the problems posed by income inequality--turns out he was right.

So diminishing another person's clear morality as "took a few pictures with civil rights leaders" is wildly dishonest.

3. I have no idea what the issue here is either, but when people want to criticize Sanders on race, his residency gets trotted out every time, including in the piece you linked.

4. Cancer registries, low income energy assistance, extensive effort to repair the VA, founding member of the congressional progressive caucus, etc.

I realize it's an opinion piece, but it's also repeating a wide swath of falsehoods. Wrapping those up in an opinion piece doesn't grant a pass--it's still very dishonest.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
113. Excellent article, bravenak!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:47 AM
Mar 2016

Lots to think about. In order to be president, you have to try to understand all the people you intend to serve. We all have blind spots, but the important thing is to keep trying to open our eyes. That requires humility, an open mind, and a willingness to listen. One of Sanders' biggest mistakes was to write off Democratic voters in southern states. A would-be president can't write off anyone, anywhere. A campaign can't let itself become an exclusive club.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
134. I agree
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:46 AM
Mar 2016

Everybody will make mistakes, but correcting ourselves takes a willingness to learn from others. I wish he had not written off the south. His campaign staff who advised him did him wrong in many ways.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
158. Devine and Weaver shot Sanders in the foot a number of times.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:44 AM
Mar 2016

Campaign managers should manage the campaign and steer the candidate away from controversies. Instead, Devine and Weaver talk too much, and they actually cause rather than prevent controversies. They lack finesse, diplomacy, and tact. I'm not sure how you can appeal to diverse groups or win an election without those traits. Strategies should be inclusive, rather than exclusive.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
159. I believe that is why Devine Does not win presidentials here at home
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:47 AM
Mar 2016

He is unable to help a candidate connect to diverse groups and is rather insensitiv himself

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
171. It is probably too late for Sanders to shake up his staff at this point.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016

That would give the appearance of a campaign in trouble.

But Sanders should have shown Devine the door a long time ago. Devine is an albatross.

I honestly believe that Sanders is a better man than the one portrayed by his campaign, which became too reliant on big rallies and preaching to the choir.

And what is the percentage of women and minorities among his closest advisors? I haven't seen that information.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
180. That is absolutely how I see it
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:08 PM
Mar 2016

I have no idea how many women or minorities on staff but I have been asking and looking for months.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
190. Listening...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:16 PM
Mar 2016

There are a lot of things I don't like about Clinton, but she is a good listener. She solicits many different points of view. That is the best way to make friends and influence people, which is essential in politics.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
202. Yeah, Weaver's been with Sanders since the 1990's
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:05 PM
Mar 2016

You don't stay around a politician that long unless you like them and care about them. Weaver has done and said some questionable thing but I give him a pass,,,he actually gives a shit about Sanders

Devine is a snake and more of a mercenary (and a bit of a loser)...and this is kind of the same strategy that he advised Al Gore in 2000.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
206. Good analysis.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:13 PM
Mar 2016

Devine seems to be the biggest winner (financially) in all the campaigns he has managed. It is my understanding that Devine approached Sanders initially, and not the other way around. Maybe Devine saw an opportunity there. He apparently talked Sanders into a few things.

Stuckinthebush

(10,816 posts)
116. Damn
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:59 AM
Mar 2016

My god that was powerful. So many good lines.

"We are not impressed with Bernie’s grand sweeping plans for change. First off we went for that with Obama in 2008 and we only got about 40% of what we were promised. Bernie is no Barrack Obama. In fact we can’t help but notice how often Mr. Sanders has thrown shade at Barrack Obama. He sounds like that one uncle who always has a business idea but no business plan and no bank loan."


My favorite paragraph:

We are simply not impressed with Bernie. Bernie is Ned Stark talking honor and duty to Cersie Lannister right before she put his head on a pike. He is a stripper telling us everything we want to hear for us to spend that money. He is the kid in elementary school running for class president, promising to make recess 3 hours long. Bernie is the recent graduate from a small liberal arts college that read some Karl Marx, and Emmerson, and Voltaire in undergrad, but never got around to reading Carter G. Woodson, bell hooks, Derrick Bell, or Alice Walker. Then, with hope and fire in his eyes he joins teach for America. He brings his ass to the 9th ward in New Orleans, or the Bluff in Atlanta, or Chicago’s Westside. He enters the classroom and sees his new students who he just knows are waiting for a person like him to come and save them, show them everything they didn’t know they ever wanted and needed from the world around them. Then he’ll do the Nene with them and they will love him forever. Of course they see immediately that he really has no clue what he’s in for. He is their third such teacher. They don’t respond to his impractical and overly simple solutions to the infinitely complex problems that they face. They don’t have the background experiences to make sense of the lesson planning ideas he got from an Upworthy article. They see right through his facade and he is gone after one term.

Stuckinthebush

(10,816 posts)
122. Thank you
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:08 AM
Mar 2016

Just know that I appreciate your voice and am so damn glad you are here, Bravenak. Thanks for finding and posting such thought provoking articles. The animosity you receive is evidence of the amount of cognitive dissonance you cause. Keep it up!

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
128. Thank you
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:19 AM
Mar 2016

We all know I ain't perfect, I make my mistakes, but I love discussing thing like this. I feel like we are on the cusp of a coming together, and it is painful and messy but we will learn from each other, and be better for it.
I have allowed myself to be drawn into negativity (I am done with that and my ignore list is getting long, lol), but I think it is time to ignore most bullshit and just find good discissions with people. And speak freely even if we say dumb stuff. As long as we talk it out, we will grow stronger as a group. And things will flow from there.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
129. I said there were things I did not agree with and put that disclainer so folks did not
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:22 AM
Mar 2016

go read something they did not want to read. Good morning, though!

(You know which part was just plain bullshit. They certainly do not call us nwords in private. I think that was very over the top and the author probably will wish they could take that back later)

thesquanderer

(11,955 posts)
125. What I'd suggest to the contrary would be...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:14 AM
Mar 2016

that polling has shown that Sanders and Clinton are equal in favorability percentage among Blacks who are familiar with both of them. The problem is, you can only vote for one person, and even if someone likes Bernie, that doesn't mean they like him enough to choose him over Hillary.

So I'd suggest that maybe the article is wrong about so much of the AA community not being "impressed" by Bernie, it could be largely that people are reasonably impressed but simply like Hillary even more, as the combination of that polling along with the actual election results would imply.

Also, of course, as always, it's not a monolithic community. In Michigan, while HRC still won the AA vote, Bernie did get about 30%, which is by no means an insignificant number of people.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
130. I agree that we like both pretty much the same
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:24 AM
Mar 2016

But we have a longer term relationship with her. She makes mistakes but tries to fix them. We do not know how he would act if he made similar mistakes because we have not dealt with him enough.

kath

(10,565 posts)
213. Very interesting. For those that didn't click on the link
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016

This is a little piece written by bravenak on 3/11/2016 at Frontpage Mag about Bernie's supporters (Frontpage Mag is an outlet for the extremely vile rightwinger David Horowitz)


I cannot stand him. His fans are racists who run around calling blacks racist and wonder why we hate him and them. I don't even LIKE Hillary but I will vote for her just so his fans can feel the sne BERN that they have been passing out.
Look at the racist comments here. I did not know jews hated us blacks so much. Good to know. I will return it in kind. There are so few of them It's a wonder they have the gall to think about being racist against blacks.

Bravenak, Frontpage Mag 6 Comments
Fundie Index: 10

http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=117360 (*)

(*) What is fstdt? " An archive of the most hilarious, bizarre, ignorant, bigoted, and terrifying quotes from fundies all over the internet! The FSTDT archive is the largest collection of fundie quotes on the planet."

One of our own DUers made it to a collection of the most vile, bigoted quotes out there. We should be so proud!!

kath

(10,565 posts)
255. It's also interesting that no one else thought that Vattel's post was interesting, after all these
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:17 PM
Mar 2016

hours, eh?

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
131. Seems the major and repeated point in the article is Bernie threw shade at Obama.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:35 AM
Mar 2016

Yes, he did. He saw things he thought were wrong and wanted them corrected. That bothered you. I respect a man for standing up for what he thinks is right, even if it means standing up to the President.

I'm not going to try and persuade any AA person to change their mind except about one thing. You should have voted for Jesse Jackson. We would have avoided a lot of problems if you had.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
132. That's not "throwing shade", most of Sanders critiques of Obama were unfair at best and included
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:41 AM
Mar 2016

... the premise that the historically and digitally gerrymandered GOP congress was of no affect on his policies.

That's the central premise of his campaign; that people will sway congress, they wont... that's fantasy.

Throwing shade is publicly dissing an acquaintance with mostly disengenuous critiques to bolsters ones own image; IE Cornell West

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
140. There was never more shade thrown at Obama than by the person who ran against him 2008
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:56 AM
Mar 2016

Of course that doesn't matter somehow...

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
142. That was a political campaign where shade is expected, even if they were best friends it would be...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:01 AM
Mar 2016

... expected because they're running against each other.

Sanders had no reason to "throw shade" when he said he'd support a primary against Obama multiple times, when he called him weak when dealing with the historically gerrymandered GOP congress and when he called him righward.

and

Cornell West, that's just a slap in the face

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
146. Why did she run against him?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:12 AM
Mar 2016

I mean, if it's a sin to challenge Obama in any way, it seems running against him is a direct repudiation of his performance. Facts matter.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
148. in 2008 she being Clinton and he being Obama... that's a known, what are you really asking here?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:14 AM
Mar 2016

Strawman, no one said it was a sin to challenge Obama just don't do it in a disingenuous way as Sanders has done.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
164. Or that he would get poor kids jobs sl they wont be hanging on street corners?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:54 AM
Mar 2016

Or that white folks dont know what it's like to live in the ghetto? Or 'I SAID BLACK FIFTY TIMES!!'
Or when his campaign peeps decided to basically say the South was not important to his campaign? Or that he would do better with northern blacks? Or when he lost in SC (because of black voters)and told his nice monochromatic (mostly non dark folks)crowd that they were 'TOO SMART' to not vote for him ( I know folks pretend we are not allowed to be offended, we xan only be offended at what they direct us to b offended by)?

Now. If he had said that he said the wrong thing I would accept that. But constantly bringing up one thing she said while completely ignoring hs stuff is a double standard and does not fly

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
174. Not the same, bravenak
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:03 PM
Mar 2016

There's a difference between clumsy language from someone who is well meaning, and an intentional bigoted statement. Also, given the context of the "too smart" statement, I don't buy that it was meant as a slight to southern blacks. But we can disagree.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
176. They were all ill considered and much more recent
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:04 PM
Mar 2016

And she actually apologized. Something he has never done.

Cowpunk

(718 posts)
247. "Throwing shade" seems to mean criticizing Obama from the left.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 06:45 PM
Mar 2016

That's what I took away from this article. I followed all the hyperlinks in the article that supposedly show Sanders "throwing shade", and all he was doing, every single time, was making a progressive critique of the President's policies and practices. So now I see why this article is so popular here-we're right back to the good old Obama wars. It's the loyalists saying "Chill out, Obama's got this" versus those who say "Obama needs pressure from the left to do the right thing." To the loyalists, Bernie is just another hater making common cause with Obama's enemies on the right, not the loyal opposition trying to keep the President on a more progressive path.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
133. The author is younger than I am, and I was about six in 1988
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:43 AM
Mar 2016

In eighty four, I was a toddler.
We could not vote for him. And, we might not have if we did not feel like he had a chance. I like Jesse.

pandr32

(11,447 posts)
135. Sanders has barely made a dent during his long political career
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:47 AM
Mar 2016

"We are not impressed with Bernie’s grand sweeping plans for change. First off we went for that with Obama in 2008 and we only got about 40% of what we were promised. Bernie is no Barrack Obama. In fact we can’t help but notice how often Mr. Sanders has thrown shade at Barrack Obama. He sounds like that one uncle who always has a business idea but no business plan and no bank loan...We don’t think he will heroically pry power from a system that he worked in for 25 years without making a dent. Why should we truly believe that Sanders of all people is the one to accomplish this? What has he shown us as a senator in the mighty state of Vermont to support this type of gumption?"

I couldn't agree more.
What was that old wives' cliche? "If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!"

pandr32

(11,447 posts)
196. Agreed!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:32 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary Clinton has been working hard to not "over-promise" in order to win. She has been working hard meeting with many different groups of people and looking at all kinds of problems. Her intent is to "walk the walk" and not just "talk the talk!"
It will be key to having support in the first midterm for the Congressional coalition that supports her. If Madame President Clinton tees off successfully we won't see a midterm slaughter that would weaken her support to push her progressive agenda through--and hopefully through a second term! We need to hold steady on course..."Thanks Obama!"

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
149. AMEN!!! - " What has he shown us as a senator in the mighty state of Vermont to support this type of
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:15 AM
Mar 2016

...gumption?"

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
264. Apparently Democrats in Vermont disagree with you.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:05 AM
Mar 2016

They voted, that is 86% of them voted to nominate Bernie for president.

Vermonters who know Bernie best are almost totally behind him. They are best situated to judge his accomplishments in Congress.

Feel the Bern!

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
156. K&R
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:38 AM
Mar 2016

That was heartbreakingly raw no matter who one is supporting for president, a very good read. I think there is a broader message there than for just Sanders and Sanders people and I am very glad you posted this

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
157. It really does relate to much more than just this
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:42 AM
Mar 2016

I hope that we can keep a dialog going after the election. I will make sure we do even if I have to write shit myself

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
168. Me too
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:01 PM
Mar 2016

The conversation needs to continue , because it's a far larger and longer conversation than the one about this election cycle. The topic of race and racism always has been--or should be, anyway.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
160. Very good article
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:48 AM
Mar 2016

My favorite part:

"He sounds like that one uncle who always has a business idea but no business plan and no bank loan. We don’t think his plans will ever come to fruition. We don’t think he will pass trillions of dollars of new spending by raising trillions of dollars of new tax revenue from white capitalist power structures that have been running their Ponzi schemes for generations. We don’t think he will heroically pry power from a system that he worked in for 25 years without making a dent."

KeepItReal

(7,769 posts)
167. Then why post this spiteful, nihilist, anonymous blogger stuff?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:00 PM
Mar 2016

So is everyone agreeing and REC'ing this OP disagreeing with the anonymous blogger "Fiq Blerdman" that Bernie and Hillary are both calling us the N-word when Black people are not around?

Is everyone agreeing and REC'ing this OP also disagreeing with "Fiq Blerdman" that Hillary is the "lesser of two evils"?

I'm sorry but saying you don't agree with so much of it, and then posting it anyway, doesn't give you a pass. You would get kicked off DU if you had posted this as an original thread.

KeepItReal

(7,769 posts)
179. Posting an blog that attacks both Democratic Primary candidates
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

Just because the post is primarily anti-Bernie Sanders, it does Sec. Hillary Clinton no justice, either.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
172. Why do you spend time worried about what I discuss?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016

I use ignore and will try it out right this second.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
173. I love this blog. This was my favorite part:
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016
We are simply not impressed with Bernie. Bernie is Ned Stark talking honor and duty to Cersie Lannister right before she put his head on a pike. He is a stripper telling us everything we want to hear for us to spend that money. He is the kid in elementary school running for class president, promising to make recess 3 hours long. Bernie is the recent graduate from a small liberal arts college that read some Karl Marx, and Emmerson, and Voltaire in undergrad, but never got around to reading Carter G. Woodson, bell hooks, Derrick Bell, or Alice Walker. Then, with hope and fire in his eyes he joins teach for America. He brings his ass to the 9th ward in New Orleans, or the Bluff in Atlanta, or Chicago’s Westside. He enters the classroom and sees his new students who he just knows are waiting for a person like him to come and save them, show them everything they didn’t know they ever wanted and needed from the world around them. Then he’ll do the Nene with them and they will love him forever. Of course they see immediately that he really has no clue what he’s in for. He is their third such teacher. They don’t respond to his impractical and overly simple solutions to the infinitely complex problems that they face. They don’t have the background experiences to make sense of the lesson planning ideas he got from an Upworthy article. They see right through his facade and he is gone after one term.


Great piece. Thanks for posting it.
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
191. It all comes down to this.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:17 PM
Mar 2016

"Hillary needs us. She has few others in her corner. In a way she is more beholden to the black vote than Obama was. This is a powerful position that is the product of political caprice. If she plays us she’s done. She’s predictable and familiar. We can’t say the same about Sanders."

And that's fine. That's the way politics is done in the US of A. Most of us don't like to admit it, and black people are more honest about it than other demographics. Sanders is trying to upset the relationship established between many white politicians and black voters, and that upsets the white politicians, of course, but -- Surprise! -- it upsets many of the black voters, too. By the way, there is nothing really offensive in the linked article, as far as I can see. Most of it makes perfect sense. You can say, "But...but...but... it shouldn't be that way!" But it is that way.

serbbral

(260 posts)
200. Thank you for implementing this piece to the board bravenak.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:47 PM
Mar 2016

Event though, I voted for Sanders I thought that many of the OP's points were on point. He said some things that needed to be said.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
204. What I got out of the article: "Lesser of two evils ... she is more beholden to the black vote"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:10 PM
Mar 2016

I was reading through all the negativity towards Sanders, waiting for the next paragraph to explain why Hillary is better - how she has proven herself to earn 'the better' perception. She's mentioned in the last couple of paragraphs. And the author concludes with:

"To black people, surviving in America is a series of choosing between the lesser of two evils. To most of us that person is Hillary Clinton. If all else fails we know one thing. Hillary needs us. She has few others in her corner. In a way she is more beholden to the black vote than Obama was. This is a powerful position that is the product of political caprice. If she plays us she’s done. She’s predictable and familiar. We can’t say the same about Sanders."

I can sympathize (note: I did not say empathize) with the anger, and yet I find it sad that, to some, looking for a way out of the owner relationship is an invisible door. Counting on Hillary being 'beholden' to you is NOT moving forward. It's a revenge mentality, imho.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
208. I see it as being used...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:18 PM
Mar 2016

...the author says she's predictable, but not how. What does this author expect? If they expect nothing, they're being used, plain and simple. They've also bought into it for some reason.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
211. but that's just it - the author DOES expect something
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:23 PM
Mar 2016

He expects Hillary to be the black vote's bitch. I'm probably too jaded to put much faith in that.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
214. That's a little cynical...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:25 PM
Mar 2016

...I do think that pandering is a trait that can't disappear fast enough. We need leaders that don't favor one subset over another to really move beyond the various forms of inequality that exist today. Sanders message really is universal, but apparently some people aren't into that.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
210. Great article! I'm glad someone finally said the following:
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:20 PM
Mar 2016

"We are not impressed by Bernie’s lack of polish and quirky persona. Do you know why Barrack Obama is the president right now? It’s greatly because he played the political game masterfully. You know why he played the game masterfully? Because as a talented African American I’m sure that years prior someone let him know he had to be twice as good in order to get half as much as the Bernie’s of the world. In his case he is three times as good so he became a two term president, who again Bernie had the nerve to throw shade at. I could say the same for Hillary Clinton. When you aren’t a straight, white, male legislating in arguably the whitest state in the country, you might come across a situation where you need learn how to wear a decent suit, how to speak with more finesse, and avoid odd tics in your speaking presence just so you can be taken seriously. When you’re black or a woman you don’t have the privilege of being quirky if you want to be a leader. The fact that Bernie flaunts these obvious flaws as some type of endearing trait lets us know that he really doesn’t get it."

This is SO true! In this day and age, minorities (PoC and women), still need to be twice as good to even be able to compete.

The fact that someone with Sanders "quirks" can run for president reeks of white male privilege. Neither Obama nor Hilary could have gotten away with it.

BTW, I'm very happy to see you back here, Brave!

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
212. Just curious...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016
The fact that someone with Sanders "quirks" can run for president reeks of white male privilege.

What quirks should disqualify him from running for president in your view?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
223. They don't disquilify him, but they would have disqualified PBO and HRC
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:02 PM
Mar 2016

Academically. HRC and PBO had to be academic stars, and reach the very top of their careers. Yet some still say they are not qualified to be POTUS

Sanders has a Bachelor of arts degree. He has described himself as a mediocre college student because the classroom was "boring and irrelevant,"

I can't imagine PBO or HRC running on that resume. Both of them being minorities meant they had to excel at virtually everything in order to be taken seriously.

Drifting from one job to another unil he was in his 40's years, while the other two were busting thir butt from an young age in order to have a career worthy of being considered for the highest job in the land.

Having a child out of wedlock. Do you really think that either PBO or Hillary would have been able to rin if eithjer of them had had a child out of wedlock? Seriously.

Pure white male privilege

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
216. That's a ridiculous statement. The leaps of logic are amazing.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

So now the fact that people have individual personalities is racist and sexist.

So Bernie should do what? Undergo plastic surgery and go to a vocal coach to look like George Clooney so he can also be "better than" to pass this ridiculous bit of logic and be certified as not racist or sexist?




floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
219. The author of the article is arguably sexist
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:43 PM
Mar 2016

As I woman, I find it offensive that I am being pitied as having to overcome 'tricks' of quirkiness. Thankfully, I was raised by a father that always treated women on even footing.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
220. No one said racist or sexist
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:43 PM
Mar 2016

For example, no way would a black person get away with the "revolution" talk that Sanders does; even Jesse Jackson didn't talk like that when he ran.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
222. You may have a point there but i still disagree with the premise
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:52 PM
Mar 2016

It is true that any "pathbreaker" does have to have gifts that are larger than the norm.

But there's also a difference though in not wanting to allow people to use stereotypes against you, and not having a distinct personality. Obama does not entirely avoid slipping into the cadence of AA ministers or street lingo on occasion, for example. That's going to put off true racists.But not most people.

On the flip side, many of the things people criticize Bernie for -- his accent, his occasional brusqueness -- are also ethnic traits associated with being a Jew -- and a New York Jew. So he is not immune from stereotypes eitehr.




 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
262. Honestly, her churchiness bothers me more than any of his traits ever could.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:10 AM
Mar 2016

But I have issues with church that are personal and still upset me at times.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
226. It's still BS
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:40 PM
Mar 2016

Obama has natural leadership abilities and star quality. . My guess is that if he had mediocre grades and just scraped out of law school, moved to Chicago and made a name as a community organizer, and started running for lower office, those gifts would have been noticed regardless, and he would have had the same ascendency.

Clinton likewise, could have done okay on college, somehow positioned herself in some classic "entry level comers" positions in DC and exercised her ambitions to advance. She is more problematic because she also married a comer with amazing political gifts, so it is impossible to tell how she would have done if she had either been single or married to some ordinary schmuck.

And despite his early adulthood (and I would NOT discount his years as a student civil rights activist) Sanders made his name by being an exceptionally capable Mayor (and got attention as a socialist) who was named one of America's Best Mayors, and then advanced to Congress where he was repeatedly sent back by unbeatable margins for many terms.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
230. Do you really believe that women and PoC are playing on the same level as white men?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:50 PM
Mar 2016

That they don't have to work twice as hard to be half as good?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
231. No I don't.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:54 PM
Mar 2016

But in this particular situation, that particular criticism strikes me as hollow.

In fact it's demeaning to both Obama and Clinton to say it.

You don't think Obama has a distinctive personality that is not occasionally quirky? You think he is just some preprogrammed robot who has been stripped of all of his individuality?

Likewise Clinton? You think she is just some perfect political mannequin?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
232. I see you didn't real my post. The "quirkiness" (and there's a reson I put in in quotes)
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:00 PM
Mar 2016

Has nothing to do with their personalities. It's about what is admissible for a white man is not the same for PoC and women

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
236. I did read your post
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:14 PM
Mar 2016

Did you read mine?

Bernie gets a lot of criticism for the way he comes across. But his personal mannerisms are overlooked (or celebrated) because he is genuine, and people appreciate that....And as I noted above some of what he gets criticized for are also based on ethnic stereotypes.

I think Obama is genuine too. He is who he is, and even when I have I have disagreed with him, I trust him implicitly, because his basic integrity shines through. And I admire and respect him because of his obvious intelligence and 3D understanding of the world. THAT's what people respond to. Not the fact that he is immaculately groomed or smooth....I think people would respond to him in the same way if he were a little sloppier, and less perfectly modulated in his speech.

Clinton, meh. I don't trust her -- but it has nothing to do with her gender.

I disagree with that generalization.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
242. I don't know how we go into this point. My post was in reference to this in the OP
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:52 PM
Mar 2016

"We are not impressed by Bernie’s lack of polish and quirky persona. Do you know why Barrack Obama is the president right now? It’s greatly because he played the political game masterfully. You know why he played the game masterfully? Because as a talented African American I’m sure that years prior someone let him know he had to be twice as good in order to get half as much as the Bernie’s of the world. In his case he is three times as good so he became a two term president, who again Bernie had the nerve to throw shade at. I could say the same for Hillary Clinton. When you aren’t a straight, white, male legislating in arguably the whitest state in the country, you might come across a situation where you need learn how to wear a decent suit, how to speak with more finesse, and avoid odd tics in your speaking presence just so you can be taken seriously. When you’re black or a woman you don’t have the privilege of being quirky if you want to be a leader. The fact that Bernie flaunts these obvious flaws as some type of endearing trait lets us know that he really doesn’t get it."

I replied how I was glad that someone pointed this out, agreed, and gave examples of it. I never said or implied anything about their personalities. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "quirk", but hey, I'm not as gifted as a writer as many on DU are.

The comparisons I made are not about personalities. It's about how much harder women and PoC have to work, and how they can get away with much less that a white man can.

Like for example, do you think PBO or HRC had had an out of wedlock child it would have gone practically unnoticed? I think that if it had been one of them, this would have been a BIG, BIG deal.

I don't know how can I make this any more clear, but the post you replied to was never about personalities.


kwassa

(23,340 posts)
225. Good opinion piece, Bravenak. Thanks for posting it.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:18 PM
Mar 2016

I found myself nodding my head all the way through. This is my main problem with Bernie: how is he going to get any of these things done?


We are not impressed with Bernie’s plans for a “political revolution”. We are skeptics. Life has taught us that. We have seen the government infect us with diseases, attempt to deny us voting rights, and create unfair prison sentencing practices. We have seen the lashing out against black figures being successful in the media, sports, and politics. We have seen the Trump rallies. We have seen the grand juries come back without orders to indict murderous police officers. We’ve seen some of you Bernie supporters at Ron Paul rallies 4 years ago. To quote a multi-millionaire artist and businessman that was recently called a drug dealer by some airhead news anchor. “We don’t believe you, you need more people”. (Because you really don’t know any black people you probably don’t get this reference) This is America, we are not safe here, yet Bernie swears that the same people that have stood idly by and watched/ignored horrible things happening to African Americans for generations are going to suddenly see the light and get on board. Sanders is not the charismatic revolutionary you seem to think he is. He will not be able to shout down conservative forces in the legislature, Bernie couldn’t even finish his own rally when #BlackLivesMAtter protestors came for him. Bernie will not pull people to the polls in droves to cause democrats to overtake congress into a filibuster proof super majority. By the way Barrack Obama, you know the first black president ever. The president that helped set records for minority voter turnout two elections in a row, the one that Sanders threw shade at; he had a super majority and still couldn’t get a ton done because democrats in red states are still beholden to their conservative constituents. The world you Bernie supporters believe in doesn’t exist to black people…or maybe it does in Vermont but few of us have ever seen Vermont.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
227. You've GOT to look down ticket!
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 02:43 PM
Mar 2016

"he had a super majority and still couldn’t get a ton done because democrats in red states are still beholden to their conservative constituents."

You've got to have the Congress! Voting for Hillary is only one piece of the puzzle. I'd start looking at house and senate where there are openings. Both Hillary or Sanders will perform well if they have some support there. The executive office is rather overblown in importance for issues on the homefront - except for setting tone. Go bank/corporate or grassroots, but its not going to matter a damn bit unless you activate locally. There is, imho, one candidate that supports grassroots, and can get people fired up. Sorry, but closed door lobby/fundraising meetings aren't going to inspire past November. And you may find yourself cooked.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
235. With Congress, either Hillary or Bernie can get much done. "in the beginning was the word"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:12 PM
Mar 2016

all powerful. Stay upfull.

Rebkeh

(2,450 posts)
237. Good points, many already addressed though
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:16 PM
Mar 2016

Here's what stands out to me, one right and one horribly wrong.

1. The Ron Paul thing ... that's true. A problem we are working on.

2. Fighting dirty, the long slog in the Washington muck is not how you get change, it's how you keep things exactly the way they are. It's no longer a winning strategy, it's a losing one. Clinton supporters are the ones being naive here, not Bernie's.

Yes, it's true Bernie is no Barack Obama, but he doesn't have to be. Besides, We don't want another Obama, he was the right guy then, he, or someone like him, would be the wrong person now.

And Clinton is no Obama, please. Be serious.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
259. That thing y'all do where you call us naive?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:27 PM
Mar 2016

That is condescending as hell. We are not naive. We just know better than to believe that by electing one dude, ohhh magnificent chnge will come.

No politician will make things right for us. Putting all type of energy into the new awesome saviour is the epitome of naiveté.

Nobody had ever said Clinton was Obama. Just that Bernie is not. We CAN discuss him without using her for a comparison.

About that fighting dirty??? Harassing John Lewis and calling him house nwords and sellouts for not being deferential to Bernie is FIGHTING DIRTY. She aint did no shit like that and he acts like int nothing wrong with it.

So rather than be upset that the rest of us are good and damn tired of his fans and their swarms and bullshit harassment and being told that we should be so impressed by his civil right wirk in the sixties, he should have taken the time to get to KNOW US and find out how to best connect with as many of us as he can.

Pointing at the Clintons when talking about him just makes me know that he cannot stand up to scrutiny. The deflection is all they can do.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
241. Funny, smart blog post.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:53 PM
Mar 2016

Not black, but I agree heartily that ALL politicians are full of shit and not to be trusted. All of them. Nature of the beast. Being mad at that is like being mad at gravity or rain. You can if you want, but you are going to mad a bunch.

Lover your trigger warning too, for all the delicate flowers..... You can just add "Trigger warning: white privilege" from now on

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