2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI have to think the people voting for Hillary don't care all that much about corruption.
Because if Hillary Clinton isn't corrupted by Big Money, then NOBODY is. Maybe honest people can argue about the degree of her corruption, but after a candidate takes tens of millions of dollars from Wall Street banks both personally and for her campaign, it cannot be credibly argued that she hasn't been significantly corrupted by this money.
So, why are Hillary supporters voting the way they are? Clearly, they have other priorities. Perhaps they think Hillary's experience and qualifications are more important than going with a true-blue liberal who might be ineffective as president. Or maybe they're worried about the general election, and think that Hillary is the better bet against Trump, despite what the polls currently say. I'm not putting those viewpoints down. They're perfectly understandable, and reasonable, even. I just think it's important to understand what's driving everyone here. It might help down the road, when we finally decide on a nominee.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)think
(11,641 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)TheFarseer
(9,322 posts)It's much better to not try anything and complain the republicans won't let you do anything. Now that's success!
casperthegm
(643 posts)So we don't really know much about our candidate? I've got a small list of actual issues to start with. Want to compare?
Opposes Citizens United and proves it by not taking outsider money
Doesn't give speeches to Wall Street for hundreds of thousands of dollars each
Voted against Iraq War, as it would lead to instability in the region, ie the rise of ISIS. And he was right.
1% and corporations pay their fair share
Marriage equality from the beginning
For Glass Steagall
Opposed NAFTA
Opposed the TPP (from the start)
Sincere about the environment; opposed Keystone from the start and is against fracking
Sincere about income inequality
Supports healthcare coverage for everyone, expanding upon the ACA
Supports free college for all, as an educated society benefits all
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Both are Democrats, if the trolls on DU and other sites are successful in dividing the Democrats in two camps who can't vote for the other, we lose the White House to Donald Trump, or worse, Ted Cruz. This just plain needs to stop.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)punch you in the face and then cry "peace, peace"
Get real. If the Clinton campaign stops all the lies and smears, THEN they have a leg to stand on. But until they do, they can't expect others to stay silent. I mean, REALLY!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)supporters have very little to do with why we do not like her. This year we have two candidates who are going in exact opposite directions. That is the division and nothing else. They also run two totally different kinds of campaigns.
I personally that it is not about supporters. It is about real divisions that do not have a central uniting line. There is no way that the goals can be united.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Corruption is the way the people's business gets done in Washington, it's the order of the day and all the Very Serious People are quite fine with it as long as they get their share. Only far left kooks like Sanders try to rain on the parade of lucre and all it does is make them look unSerious.
PAMod
(906 posts)wrote about that very thing in "A Thousand Days" in 1965:
"From the start of the republic American progressivism has had two strains, related but distinct...pragmatists accepted the responsibility of power and thereby risked corruption. The utopians refused complicity with power - and thereby risked irrelevance...
Seems relevant to this, um, discussion.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)If that bad policy originates from a Democrat, does that make it off limits for criticism?
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)IT IS ALL ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE CANDIDATE... LIKE CHARACTER, INTEGRITY, QUALITY OF PAST JUDGEMENT(S) AND DECISION MAKING... YA KNOW THE IMPORTANT STUFF! Hillary being a Democrat might just be a "Tool" to enable her to achieve her personal goals? Think about it...
insta8er
(960 posts)decisions
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)There is never a shred of substance to these kind of posts. Be respectful that you're at a site to support Democrats. Take it somewhere else.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Not every issue can be a top priority. It's OK.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Be respectful that you're at a site to support Democrats. Take it somewhere else.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Ain't we lucky?
ETA: Note the implication. Corruption itself is OK.
But TALKING ABOUT IT might get you into trouble around here.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Evidently "Wall Street" was raising embarrassing questions.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)astrophuss42
(290 posts)Was pretty blown away but everyone comes from their own perspective I guess.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)doc03
(35,325 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)doc03
(35,325 posts)bee presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Maybe not in Bernie's country.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Hilly has so many appearance of impropriety that it's difficult to summarize them all.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)doc03
(35,325 posts)the judge, jury and executioner when they shoot someone. But when it comes to Hillary Clinton
you declare her guilty just because she is being investigated. You people really need to quit polluting DU with your
Republican talking points.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)She hasn't been charged, no one has said that. If charged, it's up to a judge or jury if she's found guilty.
However, the FACTS are that she is currently under an FBI investigation. It's not a Republican talking point, it's not conjecture, it is a fact. It is also a fact that none of the other candidates are currently being investigated by FBI.
doc03
(35,325 posts)why do you think you have to repeat their bullshit. Your concern has been noted so you can rest now.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Your head been in the sand the past 6 months?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Please take your posts to reddit or a place you can bash Hillary 24/7
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Answer that and then you have some ground to stand on. Until then it's nothing but good old fashioned double standard hypocrisy.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)She is focused on the GOP
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)ebayfool
(3,411 posts)The guy running on the Democratic ticket?
Broward
(1,976 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)Exact same type of cluster mentality. I observed it closely for years as I monitored freerepublic.com.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)This is why most of the zombies on her are all "For good of the party" Both parties have mind fucked them so bad that they can not see how both sides are bad. What is sad is that GOP right now are actually more aware of corruption flocking behind Trump. It is sad really that HRC is in lead. At least Trump is pandering fighting against crocked politicians.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)They are basically telling you to ignore this because I assume it makes they ashamed. Deep down they know you can not get paid millions of dollars then have record as HRC does of changing votes once she gets paid is honest. Funny the ones who say What has she done illegal. I guess they are so low-information they never even heard of the changes to camping finance laws that have been done over last 20 years.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)You will have to do better than this is you want to be one of DU's High Priests of Liberalism who gets to look down and judge everyone else here.
But hey ... good luck. I hear a spot just opened up.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)they just don't care about corruption, democracy the economy or National Sovereignty
You have to be able to ignore one hellova lot to go there.
Because it's her turn. goodgod
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Is primary in my decision. In this case Hillary is more in line with my values. As I have said, if Bernie is the nominee I will vote for him because he is the nominee of my party. I don't denigrate Democrats.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)but I don't give a rats ass about Corporate puppets
....oh, you know.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)OhZone
(3,212 posts)And despite rich doners and friends, he did the right thing, as will Hillary.
So go to freerepublic.com with these democratic smears, OP.
Also - just about all the scandals and attacks on the Clintons from day one turned out to be lies, so, yes, we care about corruption, but we don't think she's corrupt. The Clintons are the victims of the GOP smears and corporate media.
This site is supposed to set the record straight and fight the corporate GOP lies, not pass them on.
Oh Goddess, I can't wait till the primaries are over!
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Policies are.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)And FDR wouldn't have been as socialist without a Great Depression. Revolutions don't happen in America without something, excuse the expression, HUGE! Sorry.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Money is the reason nothing is getting done.
Newkularblue
(130 posts)Whether the Clintons are crooks or saints is completely irrelevant; especially to the repubs.
When your career is dedicated to civil or military service you're automatically held to a higher standard. Fair, no. But it is what it is.
They dont have to be corrupt or on the take if they engage in activities that allow them to be labeled as crooked. Just think of the hours and hours of Clinton foundation "scandal" that low info voters will be constantly subject to should Hillary win out.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Wait until she wins Arizona and Utah
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... apparently.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... 2 days before my sentence would have ended!!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Feels nice to post again.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... it was like the first few years I came here ... I lurked and never posted anything.
By not participating, the trollish behavior from some of those pretending to be Bernie supporters became very very obvious.
Some of them are still here ... but you can already see them being a little more cautious after WillT went supernova ...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Du can be addictive. The primary battles have made me jaded and snarky.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... and that works much better in person than it does on line sometimes.
But I went 20k posts with less then 2 hides. And then got 2 in the fall, and 3 in a span of a week ... clearly stalked.
But its ok ... those folks are going to flame out very soon.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)to flame out.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I have known Evangelical Baptists Priests who are less self-righteous.
Here's an idea.
You think you are part of a "movement".
Maybe if you spent half as much time promoting Bernie and your "movement" as you do attacking Hillary, and other Democrats, you'd be winning more primaries.
Now ... if your sermon is over, perhaps you can come down from the lectern.
LexVegas
(6,059 posts)FarPoint
(12,338 posts)Yes, our current political environment is toxic...she can breathe there and survive and advance our needs....It is what it is and first and foremost, we need someone who can survive the evil onslot of GOP deeds... You can't bring a bundt cake to a gunfight.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)FarPoint
(12,338 posts)I just addressed the nugget issue.....Hillary will be brilliant as President.... She knows how to play the " Game of Thrones ".
You see, my comment came with peaceful discussion... Your message feels snarky and mean spirited. So, Bye
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)She's just like Cersei.
FarPoint
(12,338 posts)Tyrion Lannister.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)After all, she is within the law. I don't like what she is doing, but it appears legal. There are other things not to care about. We better get used to not caring about capital punishment, significant healthcare reform, getting into another bogus war, etc. There are several issues where it's difficult to see exactly where Clinton stands, so we better be ready to not care abut any of them. That way, we won't be disappointed.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)It's all about the history. Facts, positions, track record do not matter.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Envy is an ugly emotion
think
(11,641 posts)The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.
~Snip~
The article adds that there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clintons involvement in the case and the banks donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton. Maybe its all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasnt even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.
But even that wouldnt make accepting the $1.5 million excusable.
If youre Bill Clinton and your wife has recently intervened, in her capacity as a cabinet secretary, to help a giant corporation avert a significant threat to its bottom-line, the very least you could do, if only to avoid the appearance of impropriety, is to avoid negotiating seven-figure paydays with that same corporation. This is particularly jaw-dropping because ultra-wealthy Bill Clinton has virtually unlimited opportunities to give lucrative speeches to any number of audiences not directly implicated by decisions that his wife made as secretary of state....
Read more:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/
AzDar
(14,023 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)(At least that is how I see them viewing it)
MerryBlooms
(11,767 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sat Mar 19, 2016, 06:13 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I have to think the people voting for Hillary don't care all that much about corruption.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511533169
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Broad, unjustifued smear of Clinton supporters
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Explanation: Just an expression of opinion by an anti Clinton poster A little light on facts and substantiation but no rule violation that I can see
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Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)"People who contribute get the ear of the member and the ear of the staff. They have the access and access is it. Access is power. Access is clout. That's how this thing works." - Romano Mazzoli
Anyone who thinks Hillary Clinton is immune from the power of corporate money is naive. Often , Hillary supporters post here they are the "grown ups". Well, if they believe this money doesn't have a corruptive influence then they simply are not "grown up".
reformist2
(9,841 posts)I actually respect some of the reasons people choose to support Hillary. But honesty and being above board is certainly not one of those reasons - especially when you have someone like Bernie running!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)of Sanders supporters must be really working well as they are ratcheting it up. It sure makes me want to join their "we are superior" campaign. It's very appealing!