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Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:02 PM Mar 2016

Dear Sanders supporters

I am sick and tired of reading people who justify saying out-of-pocket stuff with the "you shouldn't be listening to what supporters say" excuse.

It's very weak tea.

At bottom, the very PRACTICE of politics is about communication and discussion in a community context.

The discussions we have here at DU (and other places) are every bit as valid a criterion as the discussion that take place in the agora, an inner circle of royal courtiers, or in a public square.

If many (I didn't say "most) of a particular candidates supporters says racist, sexist, homophobic or otherwise inappropriate or stupid shit, chances are that it is less likely that I will support that candidate.

I'm not saying that's the ONLY factor, only that it might BE a factor.

There are an entire range of influence on a range of decisions that are made based on what someone else says or how they say it.

Political decisions are no different.

106 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dear Sanders supporters (Original Post) Chitown Kev Mar 2016 OP
I won't suppport more wars RobertEarl Mar 2016 #1
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #4
South Carolina just took down the confederate flag RobertEarl Mar 2016 #8
The overwhelming reason Clinton won Illinois Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #9
I see what you are not getting RobertEarl Mar 2016 #15
I disagree with what you are saying/excusing/justifying/rationalizing Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #23
I see this as you copping out RobertEarl Mar 2016 #25
I Agree. snowy owl Mar 2016 #28
He. Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #30
It was ambiguous RobertEarl Mar 2016 #33
Her win in IL was far from overwhelming. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #51
Never mind that she won't do a damn thing for those voters. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #57
Well obviously of that 13%, more voted for Hillary than Bernie since she won. So you need to ask politicaljunkie41910 Mar 2016 #66
the war issue is huge for me, and HRC is on the wrong side of it Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #85
I can respect this, even if I disagree with you on Clinton. Chan790 Mar 2016 #2
How do you disagree with me on Clinton? Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #5
We've been told that Bernie supporters are mostly white male BernieBros jfern Mar 2016 #7
Some Sanders supporters DO have racism and sexism issues Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #11
I hope you agree it is a very small minority, right? Duckhunter935 Mar 2016 #49
Some Hillary supporters are too, but no one is running a campaign against them jfern Mar 2016 #63
FYI some Clinton supporters also have racism and sexism issues and are Antisemitic too nt Autumn Mar 2016 #98
I think after today's apologies on DU, that isn't just Sanders supporters... nt revbones Mar 2016 #102
I'm sorry, I thought you were a supporter of the Secretary. Chan790 Mar 2016 #16
And there it is. The point. NCTraveler Mar 2016 #36
Uhh...what attack? Chan790 Mar 2016 #44
My sincere apologies and thank you for elaborating... NCTraveler Mar 2016 #80
What the hell are you talking about? Justify the nonsense. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #75
Sometimes one just needs to apologize, not justify. NCTraveler Mar 2016 #82
I still have no idea what you're trying to say. Let's leave it at nevermind. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #83
I apologized to the poster. NCTraveler Mar 2016 #84
There's no shortage of Hillary supporters saying stupid shit jfern Mar 2016 #3
There actually appears to be an active campaign to protect them NWCorona Mar 2016 #6
And you are free to hold that stance NWCorona Mar 2016 #10
Jane Sanders is playing an active role in her husband's campaign Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #13
That wasn't the point at all NWCorona Mar 2016 #14
It wasn't about "siding with Joe" Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #19
Why do you gloss over the obvious intended aggression and intimidation NWCorona Mar 2016 #22
Arapaio is a bully and a drama queen....of course he would do all of those Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #26
But that doesn't change my point. NWCorona Mar 2016 #31
Jury Results IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #12
Thank you Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #17
I support Bernie for a lot of reasons. IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #29
But black people should not find a number of posts here from some Bernie supporters Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #35
I don't care which candidate someone supports - racist, IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #38
Thanks for popping up Fairgo Mar 2016 #37
If I let the behavior of the supporters dictate who I vote for, No way would I support HRC as nom. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #18
I never said that supporters "dictate" my vote Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #21
Maybe. I fully concede that I may not be "normal" Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #24
We're getting somewhere with this now Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #27
Define "isolation". Isolation from, say, the voting record of a Senator from 2002-2006? No. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #34
I didn't "pull the lever" for Bernie OR Hillary in my primary Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #39
Really? Now we're getting somewhere. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #40
I voted for Martin O'Malley Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #45
I was impressed with many of the things MO'M said during the debates. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #59
I'm voting for him in the first round at my caucus too bravenak Mar 2016 #67
I love that vote! JustAnotherGen Mar 2016 #74
"I dont let the blargle of some random ginkuses on the interwebs..." Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #89
DU rec for truth. nt LexVegas Mar 2016 #20
I don't approve of racist comment or antisemitism dragonfly301 Mar 2016 #32
I gave my reasons for reccing that comment at Kos at the time Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #41
You've made us all aware of your O'malley vote dragonfly301 Mar 2016 #43
No flogging, just recognition noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #47
The calvary normally swoops in to defend that poster... SMC22307 Mar 2016 #61
Yeah, funny how the outrage is only against Bernie supporters? jfern Mar 2016 #78
You'll do what you'll do irrespective of any of the rest of us. I'll do the same. The rest is DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #42
So you are calling me racist, sexist, homophobic Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #46
If you are not racist, sexist, or homophobic Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #50
your Alert faild. stonecutter357 Mar 2016 #90
Agreed that no one's supporters should say anything offensive Ken Burch Mar 2016 #48
I made a reference to the Athenian agora for a reason Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #55
You can't seriously think Bernie's campaign approves of the bad comments. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #58
FFS, I am so tired of these lectures from people who are clueless. nt Logical Mar 2016 #52
"Pull your head out of your ass and vote to Hillary" JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #53
good one! Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #88
When I see offensive shit from a Hillary supporter like that quoted below... SMC22307 Mar 2016 #54
That shit should be answered for. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #64
Obvious bigot should be booted from DU. SMC22307 Mar 2016 #65
It's shocking to me. And the OP here is really part of the smokescreen for that reality. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #69
Yep. The Swarm is conspicuously absent, SMC22307 Mar 2016 #70
Gave it a try melman Mar 2016 #96
There's a lot of whining on DU. SMC22307 Mar 2016 #99
They're the moral arbiters of nothing, and they can shut the fuck up with lectures. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #76
What WillyT did was unacceptable and also identical to what others are doing, he and they made up Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #92
For what it's worth, I don't hate you, not by a long way. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #93
Most interesting. Especially your selecting a response to other posts Amimnoch Mar 2016 #79
So the other posters made her make that vile comment? SMC22307 Mar 2016 #94
Obviously. It rolled right off. Amimnoch Mar 2016 #106
No melman Mar 2016 #95
And thus ends Chitown's participation in his own thread whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #97
Wonder if he'll run to Thom Hartmann. SMC22307 Mar 2016 #100
Sorry...someone who doesn't think for themselves...meh....Sanders or Clinton. libdem4life Mar 2016 #56
Gotta say Kev, ever since Hillary put Ronald Reagan's foot in her mouth we've seen an endless stream Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #60
Pure poppycock. Be a big boy/girl...make an intelligent decision based on facts, libdem4life Mar 2016 #62
unrec to the max. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #68
The game is up. quit while you're still standing. bbgrunt Mar 2016 #71
Apparently, you are being taken to task for not responding to something bravenak wrote on another Number23 Mar 2016 #72
When one candidate votes and kills people around the world, I won't support that candidate. artislife Mar 2016 #73
Exactly. Just once-- ONCE!-- I would like to hear an HRC supporter justify that shit Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #87
I think anyone can vote for or support anyone for any reason. joshcryer Mar 2016 #77
You call this "discussion?" Vinca Mar 2016 #81
As a Sanders supporter, it really frustrating getting tagged with something i've never done Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #86
Dont' take their criticism to heart. . . every day they make up this nonsense to blame everyone for pdsimdars Mar 2016 #103
thanks... they really don't do a good job of trying to sway anyone to their side though... Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #105
K&R! stonecutter357 Mar 2016 #91
How lopsided . . . pdsimdars Mar 2016 #101
Listen to whatever you want, and, of course, you will. No one should choose a President based on merrily Mar 2016 #104
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
1. I won't suppport more wars
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:24 PM
Mar 2016

One candidate is going to bring more war.

Also one has supported the incarceration of poor people for minor crimes that the police use to suppress certain populations.

Then there are the campaign financiers who didn't get rich by playing fair with the American people and who strive to get laws made in their favor. Nope can't support any of that.

But that's just me.

Response to RobertEarl (Reply #1)

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
8. South Carolina just took down the confederate flag
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:35 PM
Mar 2016

Yeah, that slavery mentality still exists. Do you deny that?

And why is it just 13% voted in SC? IOW, why did 87% ignore the election?

The only reason Clinton won there was because so few voted.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
9. The overwhelming reason Clinton won Illinois
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:39 PM
Mar 2016

was because of black voters, primarily in Cook County in Chicago...in the land of Lincoln.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
15. I see what you are not getting
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:47 PM
Mar 2016

Since there are far more whites in SC, it is they who mainly were the ones who ignored the election.

I look at those white people who let that flag fly so long and call shame on them, not the people they have been oppressing.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
23. I disagree with what you are saying/excusing/justifying/rationalizing
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:56 PM
Mar 2016

and think that you have a severe case of amnesia but thanks for playing...

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
25. I see this as you copping out
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:59 PM
Mar 2016

You misread me and now you have decided that I am a bad guy. There is a name for such mindsets, and such has been used to suppress people for ages. I kinda thought you might be past that but I see you are still caught in that quagmire.

My bad.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
28. I Agree.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:03 PM
Mar 2016

I'm still kind of trying to figure out her original post. It is ambiguous to me. Sounds like she has a very specific expectation for what she's willing to accept...

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
30. He.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:08 PM
Mar 2016

To be fair, the issue goes very far beyond Sanders-Clinton but the premise is simple.

People tend not to develop views about much of anything (esp. politics) in isolation although, yes, there is work that people need to do by themselves.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
33. It was ambiguous
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:10 PM
Mar 2016

Such discussions are tough. There is a lot of history - bad history - that most of the US has not come to grips with and anyone exposing that history can be deemed to be on the wrong side. Much empathy is required especially from those who control the history due to the historic power holders.

When I was young, I decided that I was a Democrat because of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. That's where I am coming from.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
57. Never mind that she won't do a damn thing for those voters.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:43 PM
Mar 2016

They have a right to do what they want, but is it really fair to still claim that Bernie hasn't addressed race sufficiently?

I get that he didn't say enough at the start of the campaign, but why do any POC voters still act as if nothing has changed with him on this?

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
66. Well obviously of that 13%, more voted for Hillary than Bernie since she won. So you need to ask
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:28 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie supporters why so few of them chose to participate in the SC election.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
85. the war issue is huge for me, and HRC is on the wrong side of it
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:27 AM
Mar 2016

No amount of happy get-along articles and whitewashing will cover that up.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
2. I can respect this, even if I disagree with you on Clinton.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:26 PM
Mar 2016

It's like I said last month...nothing has solidified my resolve against Clinton like her supporters. Many (I also didn't say most) of them are real vile scumbags. Classist, elitist, proudly anti-progressive; some Clinton supporters are in-their-own-stead plenty racist, sexist, homophobic, and there has been even a few instances of antisemitism out of them.

They are certainly doing Hillary no favors in the reconciliation she will need to win back Sanders supporters and win the GE. Nobody is happy to reconcile with a gloating asshole or a poor winner supporting a lesser-of-two-evils...even when they know it's the right decision because the greater-of-two-evils is pretty fucking evil.


[font size="5"]This is not the smirk of a nice person.[/font]

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
5. How do you disagree with me on Clinton?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:32 PM
Mar 2016

I didn't vote for her in my state's primary...

But on the whole, some Clinton supporters have made "swipes" at Sanders supporters but not whole demographics...that's the difference.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
7. We've been told that Bernie supporters are mostly white male BernieBros
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:34 PM
Mar 2016

who have a race and sexism problems.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
11. Some Sanders supporters DO have racism and sexism issues
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:41 PM
Mar 2016

and it turns me (a non-Clinton voter) off.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
44. Uhh...what attack?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:21 PM
Mar 2016

I said I disagreed with him on Hillary, but agreed with his point.

He said he wasn't a supporter of Sec. Clinton.

I apologized for the misunderstanding.

It was possibly one of the more civil exchanges on the subject all day.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
80. My sincere apologies and thank you for elaborating...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:14 AM
Mar 2016

And setting me straight. <- not said in snark.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
84. I apologized to the poster.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:22 AM
Mar 2016

I read it wrong. I wasn't looking for your understanding. I was pointing out I apologized to the party my comment was directed at.

I also appreciated the manner in which they set me straight.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
3. There's no shortage of Hillary supporters saying stupid shit
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:28 PM
Mar 2016

But no one is running a campaign to make them look bad.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
10. And you are free to hold that stance
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:39 PM
Mar 2016

I'm frankly tired of people acting like Hillary supporter's aren't guilty of the exact same thing.

They threw Jane Sanders to the wolves yesterday because it was politically convenient.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
13. Jane Sanders is playing an active role in her husband's campaign
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:43 PM
Mar 2016

and visited Arapiao's tent city in that capacity...she's fair game (just as Hillary Clinton was and Michelle Obama was and even Kitty Dukakis was).

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
14. That wasn't the point at all
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:46 PM
Mar 2016

Her role isn't in doubt. What I'm talking about is the siding with Joe. Whether you want to admit it or not Bernie was right and Joe did ambush Jane.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
19. It wasn't about "siding with Joe"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:51 PM
Mar 2016

Jane Sanders seemed to be unprepared for the possibility that Arapaio would show up at a place that he runs (and had every right to show up).

My critique would be that the Sanders campaign was (yet again!) caught flat-footed and unprepared in the context of running a national campaign.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
22. Why do you gloss over the obvious intended aggression and intimidation
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:55 PM
Mar 2016

In his tweet and actions. Jane handled herself excellently.
How many was in his armed press posse again?

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
26. Arapaio is a bully and a drama queen....of course he would do all of those
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:59 PM
Mar 2016

but the optics on that are not good...and anyway, this sub-thread is a derailment now.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
12. Jury Results
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:42 PM
Mar 2016

I was juror #5 and voted to hide.

On Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:29 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Dear Sanders supporters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511533688

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The OP tried to be cute and clever, but just called DU Bernie supporters racist, sexist, homophobic stupid shits. Offensive and rude. To be clear, the op is about DUers. It is DUers they are calling those names.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:38 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The poster might have gotten away with this if they had used a hypothetical, but they did not. They address their comments to "Sanders Supporters" and then assert that many - with a specific "I didn't say most" (as if that makes it acceptable) - make racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., comments. Putting "If" in front of this comment does not deflect from the assertion; it only makes it more obvious that the purpose of the OP was to level these accusations at "many" of Sanders' supporters on DU.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I went back twice: yes, it was said politely, but Sanders supporters just got called "racist, sexist, homophobic" etc. Hiding for insulting DU members. If poster sees this type of problem (which is against TOS), they need to alert instead of make blanket insults to Sanders supporters.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Free speech.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
17. Thank you
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:48 PM
Mar 2016

I can appreciate both you and Juror #2...at least you were very deliberative about this and gave solid reasons for your vote (I disagree with it...I did say "otherwise inappropriate or stupid shit...)

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
29. I support Bernie for a lot of reasons.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:04 PM
Mar 2016

I am not a racist, homophobe or misogynist. I personally found your post insulting, but I decided to hide your post for the same reason I would hide "Hillary supporters love corruption" - inappropriate and untrue.

As I said in my (minority) opinion, I think this type of insulting people with different viewpoints is not somethings that belongs on our message board.

Have a nice evening.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
35. But black people should not find a number of posts here from some Bernie supporters
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:12 PM
Mar 2016

as insulting, including the OP of someone commenting in this thread right now and who continues to double-down on his thesis.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
38. I don't care which candidate someone supports - racist,
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:15 PM
Mar 2016

Homophobic and misogynistic comments violate TOS. Hit the alert button, then alert on the jury results so the mods can take care of business.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
18. If I let the behavior of the supporters dictate who I vote for, No way would I support HRC as nom.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:50 PM
Mar 2016

I would stay home or play frisbee golf or something.

At least, the supporters ive encountered on the internet. My mom is a hillary supporter, and I suspect she is more indicative of the demographic than the drama-obsessed crowd that has spent the past 8 months in a nonstop low valence, basically incoherent ad hominem attack against those of us who dare to support a different primary candidate.

Fortunately, I'm not twelve, and I dont let the blargle of some random ginkuses on the interwebs influence that extremely important choice.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
21. I never said that supporters "dictate" my vote
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:54 PM
Mar 2016

I am saying that they do influence to some degree...and I am saying that it's actually a normal thing...I said that it was ONE criterion.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
24. Maybe. I fully concede that I may not be "normal"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:57 PM
Mar 2016

Because no, I make that decision based upon specific policy positions and what I want us as a party to stand for as defined by the leadership of those we choose to represent us, not because "so and so is a poop-poster!"

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
27. We're getting somewhere with this now
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:00 PM
Mar 2016

I don't develop my views on anything (including politics) in isolation. Do you?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
34. Define "isolation". Isolation from, say, the voting record of a Senator from 2002-2006? No.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:11 PM
Mar 2016

Isolation meaning random shit which doesn't have any actual policy implications but instead are the disgruntled electronic farts of continually cranky people on the internet who would be complaining about something else if it wasn't an election year?

Yes.

So let's look at this non-isolation calculus you're doing, here, Kev. Because the vote itself is binary. Either/Or. Or maybe multiple choice. You either vote for Candidate A, Candidate B, or stay home. Right?

So if this allegedly statistically significant "widespread bad behavior", of which the people who talk about it endlessly insist is real because they're talking about it endlessly, natch, amirite-- if this is influencing your choice before you get to that binary decision, how much is it influencing it? 20%? 50%?

Are you suggesting that you honestly might have pulled the lever for Sanders instead of Hillary in your primary, "if it wasn't for...."?

Honestly?

Or is this just more of the same.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
39. I didn't "pull the lever" for Bernie OR Hillary in my primary
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:15 PM
Mar 2016

There were other ballot options and there was one that fit what I wanted to communicate as a voter.

As far as "the supporter" issue...it affected it a very little bit, yes.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
45. I voted for Martin O'Malley
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:22 PM
Mar 2016

1) He was the best "none of the above" option on my ballot that also reflected my own ideological views the closest.

I wound up having to take almost all of the personalities out of my process altogether (O'malley was a real doofus when he was in the race, IMO)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
59. I was impressed with many of the things MO'M said during the debates.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:54 PM
Mar 2016

I thought he came across well.

In a normal year, I think, he would have stood out more. But this is not a normal year.

My plan is to vote for Bernie in May, even though it likely won't make a difference. I did, honestly, give HRC a chance- if we're talking calculus, in 2008 the IWR vote was a dealbreaker for me; it precluded me from supporting Edwards, Kerry, Clinton or Biden (not that I would have supported Biden anyway, what with his record as architect of and apologist for the drug war). unfortunately my fear was the HRC would run an excessively poll-tested, light on specifics campaign, and my fears turned out to be more than justified, to my mind. In addition she has run a campaign 20 years out of date not just in terms of tactics but in terms of understanding the electorate.

Still, I'll vote for her in November, if I have to.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
67. I'm voting for him in the first round at my caucus too
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:35 PM
Mar 2016

Then I know he will not make the cut so I will move over to the Hillary side. I want OM counted.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
74. I love that vote!
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:22 AM
Mar 2016

I'm writing him in! There is not a single word in his white papers I disagreed with - and his humility in Baltimore was so impressive.

dragonfly301

(399 posts)
32. I don't approve of racist comment or antisemitism
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:09 PM
Mar 2016

the following antisemitic comment made by a Hillary supporter who participates here, on a different blog and recc'd by you Chitown Kev - before you preach you might want to clean up your own house.

I cannot stand him. His fans are racists who run around calling blacks racist and wonder why we hate him and them. I don't even LIKE Hillary but I will vote for her just so his fans can feel the sne BERN that they have been passing out. Look at the racist comments here. I did not know jews hated us blacks so much. Good to know. I will return it in kind. There are so few of them It's a wonder they have the gall to think about being racist against blacks.


All that being said, I'm not basing my vote on the actions of supporters - there is enough that I dislike about Hillary's policies that would keep me from voting for her.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
41. I gave my reasons for reccing that comment at Kos at the time
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:18 PM
Mar 2016

and (I thought, anyway) that I had removed my (temporary) rec.

If you want to flog and browbeat me about it, though, I can't stop you...

remember, I didn't vote for Hillary, either.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
61. The calvary normally swoops in to defend that poster...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:24 PM
Mar 2016

where are they? Was that anti-Semitic garbage even too much for them?

jfern

(5,204 posts)
78. Yeah, funny how the outrage is only against Bernie supporters?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:56 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary supporters say plenty of things in very poor taste, including racism, sexism, anti-semitism, and crickets about that.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
42. You'll do what you'll do irrespective of any of the rest of us. I'll do the same. The rest is
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:19 PM
Mar 2016

posturing.

Nice sermon about Sanders supporters. I reject every word.

 

Jenny_92808

(1,342 posts)
46. So you are calling me racist, sexist, homophobic
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:29 PM
Mar 2016

because I am a Bernie supporter. To the ignore box for you. Good riddance.

Edit: Alert for calling us racist, sexist, homophobic.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
50. If you are not racist, sexist, or homophobic
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:35 PM
Mar 2016

then I am not talking about you.

There are enough Bernie Sanders supporters that have engaged in racist, sexist, and (on rarer occasions) homophobic rhetoric that it's hard NOT to notice it.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
48. Agreed that no one's supporters should say anything offensive
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:31 PM
Mar 2016

two other things should be considered:

1) Have most of that candidates supporters condemned and called out offensive comments?(in my estimation the vast majority of Sanders supporters have done exactly that)

2) This is the Internet-can we really be sure that people who are making offensive comments while claiming to support a candidate are really supporters at all? It's likely that at least a lot of those who have said offensive things(probably a majority)were either people who were just trolls who saw a chance for fun or sabateurs in the service of other candidates. Not hard to recruit cyber-wreckers...a lot of them will post any shit someone wants them to post for the price of a month's worth of Hot Pockets.

The comments you have seen here that were offensive don't reflect the spirit of the Sanders campaign...and Bernie and the rest of us have called out the bad actors over and over. There's no way to absolutely control what people post online.

That said, as I've said elsewhere, I'm glad the particularly offensive poster who was banned yesterday got banned, whatever his motivations were.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
55. I made a reference to the Athenian agora for a reason
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:40 PM
Mar 2016

it was a "commons" of sorts in Athens that along with being a marketplace was also a place where ideas and politics were discussed...like the public square.

Now yes, in an internet "agora" you always have to be mindful of trolls (then again, you had to be mindful of those in the agoras and public squares IRL). If it were just "trolls", I don't think there would be that big of a problem.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
58. You can't seriously think Bernie's campaign approves of the bad comments.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:45 PM
Mar 2016

He's condemned them again and again. A lot of us have. What more can we do about this?

We can't just end the campaign...that would mean giving up working for change.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
53. "Pull your head out of your ass and vote to Hillary"
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:39 PM
Mar 2016

To be clear, I am quoting a Hillary supporter speaking to a African American man today at a Donald Trump rally, which wasn't supposed to be about Hillary.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/711273345849946112

This is why we should be voting on the basis of what the candidates say, because there are assholes on both sides.

I concur with Warren DeMontague above.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
54. When I see offensive shit from a Hillary supporter like that quoted below...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:39 PM
Mar 2016

it has ZERO impact on how I vote.

Quote# 117360

I cannot stand him. His fans are racists who run around calling blacks racist and wonder why we hate him and them. I don't even LIKE Hillary but I will vote for her just so his fans can feel the sne BERN that they have been passing out.

Look at the racist comments here. I did not know jews hated us blacks so much. Good to know. I will return it in kind. There are so few of them It's a wonder they have the gall to think about being racist against blacks.

Bravenak, Frontpage Mag 6 Comments
Fundie Index: 3

WTF?! || meh

http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=117360


Yes, let's indeed flesh out "racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise inappropriate or stupid shit." Start with the above.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
65. Obvious bigot should be booted from DU.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:06 PM
Mar 2016

It's been an endless stream, starting way back with that gleeful "old white men are dying off" thread. Perhaps there were more offensive posts before that, but that's the one that first caught my attention.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
69. It's shocking to me. And the OP here is really part of the smokescreen for that reality.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:44 PM
Mar 2016

Finger pointing to distract from the brutal truth. Transparent.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
70. Yep. The Swarm is conspicuously absent,
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:58 PM
Mar 2016

but Kev did give it the ol' college try.

Who are Skinner, et al. really looking at when they speak of "division" on this board? Wait, dumb question. Never mind.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
99. There's a lot of whining on DU.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:51 PM
Mar 2016

Is Kos that way? Kos's design gives me a headache so I spend very little time there. DU's design is superb.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
76. They're the moral arbiters of nothing, and they can shut the fuck up with lectures.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:43 AM
Mar 2016

WillyT just got banned for A LOT LESS than what Bravenak has done with her racist discussion post at another site.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
92. What WillyT did was unacceptable and also identical to what others are doing, he and they made up
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:57 AM
Mar 2016

a whole fight for everyone to have. He said 'Civil rights don't matter' and they said 'He defines Bernie Sanders'.
I called out both sides so everyone on both sides hates me and that's fine with me, I welcome hate that comes to me for telling the truth and being a bit better reader than the average poster.

On that last part, I do not read Skinner's amnesty statement as a pardon but as a lure. And people are biting pretty hard on that hook if you ask me.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
93. For what it's worth, I don't hate you, not by a long way.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:12 AM
Mar 2016

You have a formidable memory and a knack for calling on it at the right time.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
79. Most interesting. Especially your selecting a response to other posts
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 07:13 AM
Mar 2016

And failure to even consider what that reply was on. Let me fix that oopsie for you. Here are some of the other posts for reference of what this post was about:


Pssst. Daniel: FORBIDDEN TRUTH ALERT - Check the most recent Gallup Poll on anti-Semitism. Blacks hate Jews. The group officially designated as being Victims Of Bigotry also despises gays and is by far the most misogynistic sector of American society (although apparently the anti-Semitism trumps the misogyny). The preceding has been an unauthorized departure from the approved societal narrative


Blacks in America are turning into our 'palestinians'. They're always angry about everything all the time forever.


They can always repatriate themselves with their ancestral homelands if they wish. I hear Zaire is nice.


Those are a few of the responses to which Bravenak was responding.
But yeah, Bravenak was soooo out of line. I guess you think she should know her place.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
94. So the other posters made her make that vile comment?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:09 PM
Mar 2016
ALWAYS someone else's fault... even the fan club buys into it.

The words came out of her mouth and she knows she fucked up, for there are at least two apologies on this board. Knowing her posting history, I doubt the sincerity.

Don't pull the "she should know her place" crap with me... it rolls right off. Trust me on that one.
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
95. No
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:38 PM
Mar 2016

It looks like you are the one that made an "oopsie". Those are comments she didn't respond to.

As the person in this Kos thread points out, the only comment she made was the one quoted here.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1497565/60170036#comment_60170036

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
56. Sorry...someone who doesn't think for themselves...meh....Sanders or Clinton.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:41 PM
Mar 2016

If someone says a bunch of really nice things about Trump...???? Doesn't pass the smell test. Give me a freaking break.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
60. Gotta say Kev, ever since Hillary put Ronald Reagan's foot in her mouth we've seen an endless stream
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:03 PM
Mar 2016

of lecturing, condescending and exploitative attempts by straight Hillary supporters. Insulting, transparent and the exact same sort of shit you find fault with on the other side. But you only find the other's fault. You don't call them out for doing this. And that's not fair play at all.

Your own candidate said insanely false things to praise a Republican villain for doing the exact things he did not do at all. Then her supporters here went on a lecture tour instead of making a round of apologies.

So really at the end of the day, let the Supporters who are without sin cast stones. And Hillary's Team on DU is no more fucking sinless than Bernie's. And that's that. Fair is fair. Equal is equal.

I'm pretty sick of the posturing. I've read some really ugly antisemitism out of people who affect that they are the judge and the jury of others. I think that is very, very fucked up. Those who play along with that are a bunch of bigoted creeps. That's right, bigoted creeps who are a slim toupee's hair in difference from Trump supporters or the recently departed Stockholm Man.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
62. Pure poppycock. Be a big boy/girl...make an intelligent decision based on facts,
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:45 PM
Mar 2016

not emotion and least of all on some random, anonymous internet posts.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
71. The game is up. quit while you're still standing.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:19 AM
Mar 2016

I support BLM and I support civil rights for all. If, indeed, I were a homophobe or racist, your lectures are not going to change my opinions, especially after what I've seen around here the last week.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
72. Apparently, you are being taken to task for not responding to something bravenak wrote on another
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:47 AM
Mar 2016

board. Because apparently it's our job as black posters to police each other. I'm sure you catch the irony of that as much as I do.

Never mind that many of the same folks that are demanding that every black poster here atone for bravenak were the main ones who were quiet as farts in church when BBI or Manny or WillyT were taken to task or perversely, actually loudly and clearly SUPPORTED these individuals when black posters and clued in white folks repeatedly called them out for their racist and/or offensive posts.

This place has lost its mind. And I just saw your hidden post so I know you can't respond anyway. But I know you see these people every bit as clearly as the rest of us do. Their unending obsession with shutting bravenak up is sure as hell bringing out the most astonishing, ILLUMINATING reactions.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
73. When one candidate votes and kills people around the world, I won't support that candidate.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:01 AM
Mar 2016

You see, to me, cluster bombs and regime changes hurt a lot more than words.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
87. Exactly. Just once-- ONCE!-- I would like to hear an HRC supporter justify that shit
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:32 AM
Mar 2016

All I ever get is crickets.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
77. I think anyone can vote for or support anyone for any reason.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:54 AM
Mar 2016

While I put "supporter antics" on an extremely low list of priorities for me (I still am a huge fan of Sanders despite disagreeing with the antics of a huge number of his "supporters" on this site and other sites), it's still a valid reason.

People seem to think that they can only support or vote for someone over strict issues. That's not the case. People might chose Clinton solely because of her Planned Parenthood endorsement. Who cares. Sanders could get support from F35 ops people in Vermont. Who cares. That's their right.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
86. As a Sanders supporter, it really frustrating getting tagged with something i've never done
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:31 AM
Mar 2016

any certainly only a small fraction of his supporters have done.

Given the nature of anonymous discussion boards, it wouldn't even surprise me if some of these bad actors were agents provocateurs of a sort.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
103. Dont' take their criticism to heart. . . every day they make up this nonsense to blame everyone for
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:14 PM
Mar 2016

their failures. Ignore their criticism. . .it is the criticism of hypocrites. . . calling out others as they lie, cheat, swift boat and smear Bernie every day. . . .and then plead with Bernie supporters to cut it out. They need to cut it out themselves, then they might have SOME credibility.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
101. How lopsided . . .
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:11 PM
Mar 2016

Every day there is a new round of articles coming out from the Hillary campaign and supporters on some new theme, some latest strategy to smear Bernie, lie about his record or diss his supporters.
Look in the mirror for once. She is running the dirtiest campaign in recent history. If you don't like it, then talk to the Clinton campaign and her supporters and have them knock of all the lies and swift boating.
Until then, stop insulting us with your one sided equality. Start changing your tactics and then many you have any kind of standing to talk about others.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
104. Listen to whatever you want, and, of course, you will. No one should choose a President based on
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:19 PM
Mar 2016

what some of his millions of supporters do or say, though.

BTW, I say the same thing to those disgusted with Hillary's supporters, all of whom are by no means angels, despite all the self-righteous and holier than thou.

You have millions of people in any group, her supporters, his supporters, Americans in general, you will get bad apples.

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