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So what is Bernie doing wrong? (Original Post) Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 OP
I really don't think he is doing a lot wrong. NCTraveler Mar 2016 #1
+1 Historic NY Mar 2016 #28
He clearly can't motivate voters to vote. onehandle Mar 2016 #2
Stomach turning whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #25
It is disgusting Politicalboi Mar 2016 #29
I might go back to I, I'm so fed up with the DNC and DWS. If this is the trend of the democratic RKP5637 Mar 2016 #106
He took too long to join the Democratic party brush Mar 2016 #50
Well said... Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #80
Since so many Bernie supporters think money treestar Mar 2016 #99
+1 stonecutter357 Mar 2016 #93
She has done this before, made her mistakes, and learned from them. bravenak Mar 2016 #3
+1 It's about Clinton, not necessarily Sanders. Nt NCTraveler Mar 2016 #6
I agree. She has the political experience Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #9
Bernie's not doing anything wrong, Clinton's not doing great. Ron Green Mar 2016 #4
I'd say it's pretty close for someone starting with pretty much zero name recognition NWCorona Mar 2016 #5
.^that 840high Mar 2016 #32
That is spot ON Politicalboi Mar 2016 #34
He wasn't prepared for this race Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #7
He actually hadn't planned on running, but there was a vacuum... Ken Burch Mar 2016 #10
What's really messed up about that is... TCJ70 Mar 2016 #19
It's his job to MAKE people pay attention. kennetha Mar 2016 #22
Voters have a role in that as well... TCJ70 Mar 2016 #24
In order to be heard choie Mar 2016 #44
Yep, exactly. The DNC, DWS and M$M are all stacked against Bernie. It's obvious what's going RKP5637 Mar 2016 #102
Please point me to them , I've been trying to find these post-1963 pkdu Mar 2016 #54
I was talking about this campaign season... TCJ70 Mar 2016 #98
He's corrected his campaign's initial omissions on race completely now. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #8
"He's addressed race completely now." NCTraveler Mar 2016 #11
OK...i'll rephrase... Ken Burch Mar 2016 #12
"that's all I'm going to say about that" NCTraveler Mar 2016 #14
To be fair about the DNC, they weren't exactly neutral in 2000, either Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #20
They did seem pretty freaking sold on Kerry. n/t. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #35
... OZi Mar 2016 #13
Taking on the corporate media, large financial institutions, drug and insurance companies is not... slipslidingaway Mar 2016 #15
exactly! Also, his name recognition was not the same coming in Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #95
So true! nt slipslidingaway Mar 2016 #116
He didn't plan on becoming a major force kennetha Mar 2016 #16
Yep. Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #23
Haha what a load of shit whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #27
Excellent analysis. nt Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #30
Like the DNC choie Mar 2016 #45
Bravo. shadowandblossom Mar 2016 #49
So Sanders wasn't 'really' serious hunh?!?! Lol... The excuses abound uponit7771 Mar 2016 #62
Yes, in a word. Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #82
Great post. Nicely done! NurseJackie Mar 2016 #87
Great post. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2016 #101
That seems about right, but there's another thing. MineralMan Mar 2016 #111
He has no track record, couldn't get SP passed in his own state so his words of his leadership ring uponit7771 Mar 2016 #17
There is nothing that choie Mar 2016 #47
She also eats baby bunny rabbit ears : rolleyes: uponit7771 Mar 2016 #53
Another incomprehensible post choie Mar 2016 #63
I Uhgree, thier consummate wingerish villianizing of Hillary makes no sense uponit7771 Mar 2016 #66
no she's not a villain choie Mar 2016 #68
as is Sanders, in myriad and noted ways uponit7771 Mar 2016 #69
Bullshit. choie Mar 2016 #71
Nope, he can throw no stones... It's fantasy to think he can uponit7771 Mar 2016 #72
Not only can he throw stones choie Mar 2016 #73
So is he, he lobbies the same people she does for money... Sanders can't pass the clean hands test b uponit7771 Mar 2016 #75
And now, I'm done with you. choie Mar 2016 #74
Typical uponit7771 Mar 2016 #76
"In myriad and noted ways"? Start noting.. whathehell Mar 2016 #84
Hillary spent the last 8 years griffi94 Mar 2016 #18
I think your last paragraph could prove to be a silver lining Lucky Luciano Mar 2016 #48
Spot. On. Should be an OP. nt pkdu Mar 2016 #58
"...mostly pointed out", one of the main reasons Im voting against him, he's great at pointing thing uponit7771 Mar 2016 #60
Now, that's a passle o' truth right there! Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #83
Perfectly said. randome Mar 2016 #109
Everything is incremental? Then how do you explain the Civil Rights Movement, Land of Enchantment Mar 2016 #110
All of those things were done in steps griffi94 Mar 2016 #112
He's going after big money, they want their gravy train kept intact Waiting For Everyman Mar 2016 #21
Your title is what it's ALL about... 4nic8em Mar 2016 #118
We haven't even voted yet Politicalboi Mar 2016 #26
Many Clinton voters are duped into thinking she's the only one who can beat Trump. SMC22307 Mar 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow Mar 2016 #33
Derp. You're talking about mostly Dumbfuckistan States. And consider this: Lorien Mar 2016 #36
How would you define a "Dumbfuckistan" state? Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #37
The same way DU has ALWAYS defined them Lorien Mar 2016 #39
Nothing is ever Bernie's fault... Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #41
Interesting.....the photo you just posted is about Bernie getting support in Utah.... Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #42
And one of the whitest...I can't see how an ultra progressive has one of the most racially ... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #57
Clinton did it... Sanders is doing nothing wrong /sarcasm uponit7771 Mar 2016 #56
Must be talking about Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma...I probably shouldn't say that Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #40
Isn't it interesting? Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #43
Yeap Utah is red and exceptionally white uponit7771 Mar 2016 #59
Lol... He deserves less time now. No track record and s mostly racially homogenous uponit7771 Mar 2016 #55
One other thing...I'm fine with Jeff Weaver (Weaver has been with Sanders over 20 years) Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #38
Win or lose, you really hve to at least acknowledge that what Bernie did was amazing. Lucky Luciano Mar 2016 #46
I don't HRC supporters want to give him any credit at all except for ruining her coronation Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #96
In my eyes, nothing. I believe he's getting screwed. dmm80 Mar 2016 #51
Nothing wrong. Second place is pretty good! 6chars Mar 2016 #52
The DNC doesn't want him. The media doesn't want him. PoliticalMalcontent Mar 2016 #61
The dem voters don't want him either, Obama had a lot to overcome too... I know Obama is hated among uponit7771 Mar 2016 #64
We live in a country of dumb-asses folks .. got it. Good. YOHABLO Mar 2016 #65
Yeap millions of people voting for a guy who's been in Washington for 30 years claiming he's the new uponit7771 Mar 2016 #67
Sigh... Lucky Luciano Mar 2016 #88
Wrong question but PATRICK Mar 2016 #70
It's About The Media november3rd Mar 2016 #77
Regarding winning the presidency lovemydog Mar 2016 #78
^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #86
Your point about Sanders supporters continuing by getting MineralMan Mar 2016 #113
He's not doing anything wrong Onlooker Mar 2016 #79
appealing to the wrong demographic DrDan Mar 2016 #81
I don't think he's doing anything wrong gwheezie Mar 2016 #85
He's been too nice to his unscrupulous right-wing opponent. Broward Mar 2016 #89
Nothing. Vinca Mar 2016 #90
Bernie biggest problem is he took on a very strong candidate. DCBob Mar 2016 #91
Given that the expectation last May was he might hit 5 percent karynnj Mar 2016 #92
God you are redundant. Iowa results: Clinton 49.9% Sanders 49.6%. Here is you in December: Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #94
So not only did Bernie end up losing Iowa.... Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #104
Smug is ugly,always. Manny and I do not get along, why would you toss him at me? Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #107
Why should I give a shit if you and Manny get along or not? Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #108
Obviously you do, you brought him up and tried to play association guilt ball at me. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #114
1. He based his "revolution" on the age group workinclasszero Mar 2016 #97
You probably don't remember but Hillary beat Obama with the popular vote. Loudestlib Mar 2016 #100
Absolutely nothing! ananda Mar 2016 #103
Sanders is too dependent on the Millenial vote IMO. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #105
Running on a discontent platform in an expanding economy Recursion Mar 2016 #115
He spent the past 50 years criticizing others and not building relationships The Second Stone Mar 2016 #117
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
1. I really don't think he is doing a lot wrong.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:43 AM
Mar 2016

I think Clinton is simply doing great.

My answer to why he is down a couple of million is Clinton herself.

You and I get a little credit as well.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
29. It is disgusting
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:48 AM
Mar 2016

They support the Queen of lies and Wall Street money and they have the nerve to say anything.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
106. I might go back to I, I'm so fed up with the DNC and DWS. If this is the trend of the democratic
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:35 AM
Mar 2016

party, then I need to rethink what I'm doing. The democratic party has left me as it's morphed into something else.

brush

(53,475 posts)
50. He took too long to join the Democratic party
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:12 AM
Mar 2016

Last edited Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:09 AM - Edit history (3)

Bernie the joined the party just eight months ago so he could more get media and name recognition. He certainly wasn't going to get that running as an independent socialist. He and Jill Stein would be in the same boat. People outside of New England would be asking "Bernie who" if he hadn't made that move.

He was literally late to the party though. He should have joined years ago and made a name for himself nationally outside of Vermont — you know, to get name recognition and media coverage, form relationships with constituent groups, especially ethnic constituents so his support does not just come mostly from white dems. He should have put in work for the party, raised money for other dem candidates — you know, the kinds of things that earn super delegates.

Eight months in the party of course puts him behind Clinton on those things, which when you think about it, explains why he's behind in both pledged and super delegates.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
3. She has done this before, made her mistakes, and learned from them.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:45 AM
Mar 2016

Experience helps. Alot. And those pesky relationships with diverse groups and organizations don't hurt.

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
4. Bernie's not doing anything wrong, Clinton's not doing great.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:46 AM
Mar 2016

This country just isn't ready for the big change. And that's too bad, because we need it right now.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
5. I'd say it's pretty close for someone starting with pretty much zero name recognition
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:47 AM
Mar 2016

And poll numbers around 6%

If anything we should be asking why is Hillary doing so poorly for someone running since 1992?

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
34. That is spot ON
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:52 AM
Mar 2016

She ran in the 90's with Bubba, and then she ran in 2008. She's a liar and a loser.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
7. He wasn't prepared for this race
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:48 AM
Mar 2016

and I don't think that he thought that he would be even this competitive.

It does make me wonder how he would have done in the 2008 GE campaign, though...

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
10. He actually hadn't planned on running, but there was a vacuum...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:52 AM
Mar 2016

...Once Elizabeth Warren bowed out, if Bernie hadn't run, there would have been no strong progressive candidate in the race.

He should have had the racial justice/criminal justice reform planks in the platform to start with. Once he did have them there, that should have put the attacks on him on those issues to rest.


TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
19. What's really messed up about that is...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:20 AM
Mar 2016

...that he actually had a racial justice portion on his issues page LONG before Clinton did. Anyone who says he wasn't addressing these things wasn't paying attention.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
24. Voters have a role in that as well...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:39 AM
Mar 2016

...and when we have dismal voter turn out it's a reflection of how much people actually look into our political situation. It also helps to have the media highlighting you like Trump and Clinton. It's not the only reason their doing well, but it's a majorly helpful factor.

choie

(4,102 posts)
44. In order to be heard
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:42 AM
Mar 2016

you have to have a media that is fair and willing to cover all Democratic candidates, not only the anointed ones.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
102. Yep, exactly. The DNC, DWS and M$M are all stacked against Bernie. It's obvious what's going
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:25 AM
Mar 2016

on, but many just don't get it. And IMO the DNC/DWS are clueless as to the mood of this country. I think they are going to cause a republican win in 2016.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
98. I was talking about this campaign season...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:48 AM
Mar 2016

...but it's not like he wasn't aware of the potential consequences of things like the crime bill. There's video of him railing against it on the house floor to his colleagues.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
8. He's corrected his campaign's initial omissions on race completely now.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:49 AM
Mar 2016

It's mainly an issue of messaging problems and media blackout, combined with the fact that, even though the Democratic National Committee is supposed to be completely neutral in a non-incumbent presidential election year, that body has been relentlessly biased towards HRC.

Why would you even start this thread? You have no need to bait the Sanders campaign.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
11. "He's addressed race completely now."
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:58 AM
Mar 2016

No one running has "addressed race completely."

Seriously? What does that even mean?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
12. OK...i'll rephrase...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:03 AM
Mar 2016

He corrected all his shortcomings on the issue compared to HRC within one month after entering the race.

Of course no one has addressed race completely in that sense...certainly HRC has no claims to superiority on that in terms of her actual record(obviously she got the votes, for whatever reasons, and that's all I'm going to say about that).

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
20. To be fair about the DNC, they weren't exactly neutral in 2000, either
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:29 AM
Mar 2016

Sanders, to his credit, has done quite a bit better than Bradley.

Also, I think that it was probably the DNC that ix-nayed a second Gore run in 2004 (and I think Gore would have beaten Bush in 2004)

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
15. Taking on the corporate media, large financial institutions, drug and insurance companies is not...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:10 AM
Mar 2016

an easy task.

Contrast that with a candidate who started with nationwide name recognition and a huge amount of corporate cash, it is easy to see what an uphill battle he has climbed.

Saving the middle class is hard work!





 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
95. exactly! Also, his name recognition was not the same coming in
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:37 AM
Mar 2016

The question isn't why is he losing but why is Hillary not cleaning up completely. Why is Sanders competitive at all?

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
16. He didn't plan on becoming a major force
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:14 AM
Mar 2016

He ran to raise issues and to shape the debate, not to actually win the nomination -- not at first.

Then a funny thing happened, a certain segment of the electorate resonated to his message beyond his wildest dreams and started pouring more money than he had anticipated by far into his coffers.

But because he had not planned on a serious competition with Clinton, he wasn't prepared for it -- not on the idea front, not on the logistics front, not on the data front. He did not bother, for example, to shore up his glaring area of weakness -- foreign policy. He did not really bother to flesh out his main policy ideas. They were more gestures than substantive proposals.

He did not think hard enough about building a disparate coalition. He stuck to one clear message and repeated it over and over again, in every context, without variation, elaboration, or nuance. He believed so deeply in the message that he has blind to the limits of it. He thought very little about how he might appeal to those who were not likely to be moved by it, in its pure unadulterated form. He was prepared to market his message only to those who would buy it hook, line and sinker. He did nothing to bring even the slightly skeptical over to his side. Indeed, he tended to dismiss them as disingenuous servants of the ruling class, whose concerns were unworthy of taking seriously.

And when the fight was on, he vastly underestimated Clinton's appeal to many elements of the democratic coalition.

He also vastly underestimated core democrats attachment to the legacy of Obama. He implicitly was running against Obama, without really fully owning up to that fact explicitly. But Hillary did a pretty decent job of smoking him out on that score.

He failed to build any very deep relationships with the foot soldiers, sergeants, lieutenants, captains and general of the democratic party that he purports to want to lead. He ran as a democrat, not because he deeply believes in the party or its legacy, not because it represented a culmination of a career standing with and fighting for the party, but merely as a matter of convenience.

He tried to lead a one man political revolution, fueled mostly by those disenchanted with the party and many outside the party, and at considerable arm's length from all those party soldiers who have been fighting in the trenches for the party for their entire political lives.

Other than that, he's done a damned fine job. He started from nothing and unexpectedly made a real race of it. Clearly he tapped into to something deep among a certain constituency.

choie

(4,102 posts)
45. Like the DNC
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:46 AM
Mar 2016

and the establishment Dems welcomed him? They've done everything to thwart his candidacy. Don't act like it had been an even playing field.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
111. That seems about right, but there's another thing.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:21 AM
Mar 2016

There has been an assumption on the part of some Sanders supporters that is based on the idea that everyone will fall in line if only they hear Bernie's message. That assumption is always incorrect, regardless of when it is applied, and to whom.

Bernie has run a primary race that has been very focused. He's behind because people don't all buy his focus. He's behind because more Democratic primary voters want Hillary to be the nominee than want Bernie to be. It's really simple.

We have a primary race with two choices. People are making the choices they prefer. The results of those choices are reflected in the results from the primary elections and caucuses.

It's not that Bernie has done anything wrong in his campaign. It's that people are deciding to vote for Hillary. Two candidates. One wins. That's how it goes.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
17. He has no track record, couldn't get SP passed in his own state so his words of his leadership ring
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:16 AM
Mar 2016

... hollow to people who expect results and have to gamble on him to deliver.

If Sanders had real results HRC wouldn't even have ran

choie

(4,102 posts)
47. There is nothing that
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:49 AM
Mar 2016

would have prevented Clinton from running. Her ambition and thirst for power fuels every cell in her body.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
75. So is he, he lobbies the same people she does for money... Sanders can't pass the clean hands test b
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 05:19 AM
Mar 2016

Believe what you want.

He's a good guy. Just slightly better isn't good enough

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
84. "In myriad and noted ways"? Start noting..
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:13 AM
Mar 2016

one of the 'myriad' ways. Put your money where your mouth is...If you can.

Oh..That's right..you can't.

griffi94

(3,731 posts)
18. Hillary spent the last 8 years
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:18 AM
Mar 2016

preparing to win the Democratic nomination. She put together the various coalitions she was going to need.
She worked on strengthening the relationships she had already had with the different
groups who make up her base.
She's actively campaigned and helped raise funds for other Democrats.
She enjoys a good working relationship with President Obama and has made a point of
expressing the need to keep and expand the policies he's started.
She's even Gasp compromised.

So now with the primary halfway over she is leading and she has a broad coalition of Democratic voters as well as congressional
endorsements and fellow Democrats willing to campaign for her and a bedrock of solid base support.

Bernie spent the 8 years since our last Democratic Presidential primary in the senate as an Independent.
He's mostly pointed out what's wrong with our economy and our political process (he's spot on in his observations)
He hasn't built the coalitions needed or the bedrock solid base support.
He hasn't earned the cooperation of fellow Democrats.
Most of his support is based on his ability to point out how things should be.

Bernie is a lot like a critic. He's been great at pointing out how it should be and since
his senate chair is safe he can remain politically pure and not compromise.
That's all admirable but it doesn't translate into votes.
Bernie hasn't been particularly effective at getting his progressive agenda implemented.

There's not realistic reason to believe he'd do any better getting his agenda implemented if he were president.

Bernie's had 20+ years as a senator. At any time he could have started his revolution and built it from the ground up.
He hasn't done that.

His message resonates with a lot young voters because they want it now.
Our political system doesn't work like that. Everything is incremental.

I'd wager that if Bernie could become president, in 2018 his biggest supporters right now would
take a look around and notice that tuition still isn't free, we don't have single payer healthcare, wages are still
not high enough, and then not show up for the midterms, claiming "What a disappointment he was, he's just another politician".

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
48. I think your last paragraph could prove to be a silver lining
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:51 AM
Mar 2016

If he did fail to achieve anything (which is possible with Congress), people might give up on him the way people did with Obama quite often...however, now he will be in the senate with a great deal more power than he had before - people will have to pay attention when he speaks.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
60. "...mostly pointed out", one of the main reasons Im voting against him, he's great at pointing thing
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:29 AM
Mar 2016

... out

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
83. Now, that's a passle o' truth right there!
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:10 AM
Mar 2016
"I'd wager that if Bernie could become president, in 2018 his biggest supporters right now would
take a look around and notice that tuition still isn't free, we don't have single payer healthcare, wages are still
not high enough, and then not show up for the midterms, claiming "What a disappointment he was, he's just another politician"."
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
109. Perfectly said.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:53 AM
Mar 2016
Before 8 months ago, he wasn't even mentioned on DU. This is OWS all over again. No sense of organization, no long-range plans, just full speed ahead and hope for the best. That never works.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

Land of Enchantment

(1,217 posts)
110. Everything is incremental? Then how do you explain the Civil Rights Movement,
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:12 AM
Mar 2016

the advent of the Women's Sufferage Movement, the LGBT movement, the Labor Movement, etc?
Don't you find it interesting Mrs. Clinton was actively putting together coalitions and strengthening relationship all those years while saying she had not yet 'decided' on running for president?

http://worldanimal.net/our-programs/strategic-advocacy-course-new/module-1/social-change/social-change-movements


Social movements develop because there is a perceived gap between the current ethics and aspirations of people and the present reality. As Wilson said: ‘Animated by the injustices, sufferings, and anxieties they see around them, men and women in social movements reach beyond the customary resources of the social order to launch their own crusade against the evils of society. In so doing they reach beyond themselves and become new men and women.’

Because social movements are the consequences of new elements of civil society, which are not incorporated into the social order, they are always unconventional. Civil society is normally in a state of change, but social structures tend towards stability. That is why social movements almost always exist. If the discrepancy between civil society and social order is large, then social movements are strong and numerous. If the discrepancy is small, then social movements are weak and more conventional.

This ‘disenfranchisement’ leads to mobilization – first organizational, where resources are harnessed in support of the cause. Resources include: people, time, skills/expertise and funds. Then mass mobilization, where society is recruited behind the cause.

There is inevitable resistance to social change. Many do not want their vested interests or status quo threatened. There is also simple inertia.

griffi94

(3,731 posts)
112. All of those things were done in steps
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:46 AM
Mar 2016

and are still being done.
The rights we have now weren't granted full blown and
all at once.

The ACA while nowhere near where I wish it was, is a start. I expect over the next
20 or so years it will be improved hopefully to single payer.
Single payer was never going to be the first step the same way marriage equality
wasn't the first step, a 40 hour work week and safe workplaces weren't the first step
de-segregation wasn't the first step.

I agree with Bernie that these things seem pretty basic, but he seems to be promising
things that he will not be able to deliver.
That's just the political reality.

He's really fired up the younger voters but if they really want to reach the goals
that Bernie is talking about it's going to take more than getting
one man elected president and it's going to take more than a couple of election cycles.



Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
21. He's going after big money, they want their gravy train kept intact
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:32 AM
Mar 2016

and are largely blacking him out, and calling in favors to round up votes against him. It's not surprising.

But wod of mouth and the internet are beginning to get the word out anyway. And some people are proving that they can't be bought, or threatened.

Trump has had $2 billion in free publicity. Hillary gets a lot too and is already nationally known (not always in a good way, but it's still name recognition).

This is kind of self-evident.

4nic8em

(482 posts)
118. Your title is what it's ALL about...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:40 PM
Mar 2016

"He's going after big money, they want their gravy train kept intact".

The big money powers that control virtually everything do not want an insurrection from the "people" who they govern and control. This is why Bernie has caught on with the "common" folk who align themselves with the Dem party even with a virtual media blackout. He has tapped into the notion of shifting the control of government power BACK to the American populace. His message has been somewhat more successful than the "99%" could have imagined or dreamed of since the 1980's. Bernie says "I" can't do it alone, but that together "we" can through a TRUE democratic process. His platform is a continuation of OWS (which was also an insurrection) and is slowly coming to fruition.

Comparatively, Trump has gained his right wing popularity through a similar but misguided message for much different reasons using racism/elitist division (take our country back, make America great again) 24/7 for months on ALL MSM. This is why the "common folk" align themselves with the Republican party. However, Trump's motivation is self aggrandizing. With Trump it's all about him maintaining power for his own personal/corporate/ego enrichment. This is also why the RNC/GOP will never allow Trump to to ascend to the Presidency (either outright or via brokered convention).

In my opinion, the growing outrage and disenfranchisement of the 99% (right and the left) will continue although for different justifications. Surprisingly, even some within the GOP now publicly acknowledge that Reagan's voodoo economics/trickle down economy since the 1980's was in fact a tremendous lie for those at the middle/bottom of the income ladder.

Peace




SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
31. Many Clinton voters are duped into thinking she's the only one who can beat Trump.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:49 AM
Mar 2016

Many voted for her because of the first female President factor.

Others voted for her because her husband was "the first black President."

It's not what Bernie is doing wrong. He's up against the Clinton Machine and doing surprisingly well, barely losing in Clinton's home state of Illinois. Bernie's doing something right - he managed to surpass O'Malley quite handily. We've got till June.

Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
36. Derp. You're talking about mostly Dumbfuckistan States. And consider this:
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:08 AM
Mar 2016

your warmongering Wall Street coddling Fracker is only 300 delegates ahead of a candidate who got a GRAND TOTAL OF TEN MINUTES OF MSM COVERAGE IN 2015! She's struggling against someone with a long career but little name recognition and near zero media coverage. That makes her one &^%$!~* weak candidate!

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
39. The same way DU has ALWAYS defined them
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:21 AM
Mar 2016

deeply Red.There were also election shenanigans in MA, FL, NC, NV and of course Iowa. Florida hasn't had a semi-honest election since 1996.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
41. Nothing is ever Bernie's fault...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:25 AM
Mar 2016

I mean, at least you didn't bring up IL and Cook County...gots to be grateful for the small things nowadays.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
42. Interesting.....the photo you just posted is about Bernie getting support in Utah....
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:30 AM
Mar 2016

Which is one of the most Republican red states in the country.

Is that state also part of "Dumbfuckistan" in your opinion?

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
57. And one of the whitest...I can't see how an ultra progressive has one of the most racially ...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:26 AM
Mar 2016

... homogenous "revolutions"

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
43. Isn't it interesting?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:38 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary wins states like South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama.......and Bernie supporters write those states off because they're red states.

Meanwhile they applaud Bernie when he wins states like Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska.

I guess importance to them isn't based on whether or not a state is considered to be a red state. Importance depends on how many black people live there. If there are a lot of black people there, they dismiss the state.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
55. Lol... He deserves less time now. No track record and s mostly racially homogenous
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:22 AM
Mar 2016

... Revolution from the ultra progressive candidate

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
38. One other thing...I'm fine with Jeff Weaver (Weaver has been with Sanders over 20 years)
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:11 AM
Mar 2016

Sanders is supposed to roll with Weaver.

Why he hired Tad Devine (who can't win an American national election to save his life), I'll never know.

Maybe he didn't have to choose an alternative who had won a national election, but someone that ran and won an election in an ethnically diverse state. He may have been able to get better messaging out there to the extent where he may not have beaten Clinton, but he could have made her sweat a little bit more (which I would have liked to see, personally)

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
46. Win or lose, you really hve to at least acknowledge that what Bernie did was amazing.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:47 AM
Mar 2016

From total obscurity to where he got against the biggest juggernaut ever (i.e. a non-incumbent was expected to win the primary almost as easily as the incumbent!) is impressive anyway you slice it.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
52. Nothing wrong. Second place is pretty good!
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:18 AM
Mar 2016

His message is appealing to a number of Dems. Just not quite as many as Hillary's.

61. The DNC doesn't want him. The media doesn't want him.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:30 AM
Mar 2016

That's really hard to overcome.

At first the media ignored him and Debbie Wasserman Schultz did her best to hold as few debates as possible. Then the media started pounding him with negative opinion pieces. The Washington post is especially good at this (probably because Jeff Bezos stands to lose so much).

When so many people consume TV and print media that's a huge hurdle to overcome. His message is clearly resonating though. Those voters who support him passionately (of which I have been).... Well... we kind of feel screwed by the DNC as of late and don't trust Clinton whatsoever. So... there's that.

Another assumption: people tend to stick with what they know and Clinton, for better or worse, has some of the highest name recognition on the planet. That's another significant hurdle.

(Gonna throw in one last one: Being labeled a socialist probably hurts with people who don't educate themselves as to his actual platform. Some people hear the word socialist and they automatically think communist. We do not live in a smart country.)

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
64. The dem voters don't want him either, Obama had a lot to overcome too... I know Obama is hated among
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:36 AM
Mar 2016

... some so called progressives and he's had just a so so presidency but with the rest of Democrats he's loved and endeared.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
67. Yeap millions of people voting for a guy who's been in Washington for 30 years claiming he's the new
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:40 AM
Mar 2016

.. New

PATRICK

(12,227 posts)
70. Wrong question but
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 05:04 AM
Mar 2016

according to some successfully discouraged young people he hasn't slammed Hillary hard enough or played hardball politics the way someone actually hungry for the presidency would have done. That is only judging by his fearless foray of honesty into the debates and rigged town halls.

In actual fact he is up to superior organization, finance and a great lack of fairness on the part of a rather cowardly and self-dumbed down leadership machinery. And the media that has otherwise destroyed the GOP for ratings does not want its money feast questioned, destroyed by Sanders and his ideas. In party position, not ideology or talent of course, he is being given the Ron Paul treatment of a unified party front(excuse me, leadership, machinery, insider donors) who will use the two pronged approach(media muffle/"rigging&quot to exert political power over the insurgency(of the voters).

In a vacuum trying to fill it needs air. The vacuum is being maintained by and for Hillary. Oh, I suppose you could cobble together another "ideal" challenger and see that one destroyed in detail too but there is no real organization of any support that could have given sanders the incredible surge he has experienced- but for prejudicial doubts of an undemocratically anointed runner up from the last real primary.

 

november3rd

(1,113 posts)
77. It's About The Media
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 05:27 AM
Mar 2016

For a hundred years the suits have been perfecting the art of mass media mind control.

Let's not fool ourselves.

Truly independent, revolutionary thought and action is impossible for most Americans.

Our public discourse is OSSIFIED.

What Bernie is doing is lightening.

It's up to all the rest of us to bring the storm.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
78. Regarding winning the presidency
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 05:31 AM
Mar 2016

maybe he underestimated the size, scope and sensibilities of the Obama coalition and Hillary Clinton's popularity among the majority of that coalition.

Regarding raising economic issues our country should engage with and address, I think he's been successful. At least I hope so.

Regarding social issues, I think he's been good. Some of his self-described online supporters and perhaps trolls did his candidacy harm via ignorance and insensitivity.

As for effecting lasting positive change, it remains to be seen. It depends in part on whether his supporters engage effectively into local, state and federal involvement. Both politically and non-politically in other areas where change and growth can occur. I hope they're successful in both areas because they are much needed to move the country on a better path toward peace and prosperity for all.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
86. ^^^This!^^^
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:34 AM
Mar 2016
"It depends in part on whether his supporters engage effectively into local, state and federal involvement."

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
113. Your point about Sanders supporters continuing by getting
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:52 AM
Mar 2016

involved locally is especially pertinent. I hope they don't abandon organized politics in a fit of pique over losing the presidential race in 2016. Politics is a long-term commitment, and change is also a long-term goal to pursue.

Bernie Sanders has done remarkably well this year. That should be a sign of hope for those who want to overhaul Democratic politics, but it will take continuing efforts to become a more integrated part of the Democratic Party to make real change happen.

 

Onlooker

(5,636 posts)
79. He's not doing anything wrong
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 05:33 AM
Mar 2016

He's a white male Jewish socialist running against a white female Christian liberal Democrat. For some good and some bad reasons, he faced long odds from the start because of those differences. It's amazing he's doing as well as he is. He's introducing the possibilities of Democratic socialism for the first time in over 100 years.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
85. I don't think he's doing anything wrong
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:30 AM
Mar 2016

He is who he is, he is presenting his agenda and not enough people are voting for him. It doesn't help that the msm is dazzled by trump non stop.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
90. Nothing.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:16 AM
Mar 2016

He was treated very badly by voters in the south who should have had the opposite reaction to him. I guess that's a lesson in no good deed going unpunished.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
91. Bernie biggest problem is he took on a very strong candidate.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:27 AM
Mar 2016

He actually did much better than most thought he would.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
92. Given that the expectation last May was he might hit 5 percent
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:29 AM
Mar 2016

He is doing well. Hillary was and is the prohibitive favorite. She had the name recognition, overwhelming party support and significant media support.

She also had and has a huge team if people who have enormous government experience. She and they have contemplated a Presidential run at least since 2000.

The surprise is not that Sanders is behind, but that Sanders turned out to be more competitive with HRC than any of the people who ran against John Kerry were against him or than Bradley was against Gore. Edwards, Dean and Bradley were all considered more likely than Sanders before he ran. So, is HRC running a worse campaign than Kerry and Gore or is Sanders really surprising people as a more compelling candidate than anyone could expect.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
94. God you are redundant. Iowa results: Clinton 49.9% Sanders 49.6%. Here is you in December:
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:37 AM
Mar 2016

"Bernie has almost no ground game in Iowa."
Memo to Bernie supporters: Voting dozens of times in unscientific online polls is not going to win Bernie the nomination.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251879648

Great thread, full of the repeating nasties and the zany cast of characters we've come to expect here on DU, folks who say 'Hillary is a liar' then later 'Hillary is my hero, Bernie is a liar' and expect to be taken seriously by readers.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
104. So not only did Bernie end up losing Iowa....
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:30 AM
Mar 2016

But now he's down by more than 300 pledged delegates and 2.5 million votes.

BTW, I noticed Manny Goldstein made an appearence in that thread.

Whatever happened to him?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
107. Smug is ugly,always. Manny and I do not get along, why would you toss him at me?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:48 AM
Mar 2016

Strikes me as a bit biased on your part. Manny hates my guts. But to you, we are all one big giant voter with a Jewish name and a gay household. I get it. I always have but more are getting it now.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
108. Why should I give a shit if you and Manny get along or not?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:50 AM
Mar 2016

I'm just laughing about what happened to him.

Thanks for the chuckles.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
114. Obviously you do, you brought him up and tried to play association guilt ball at me.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:53 AM
Mar 2016

'I don't give a shit about the things I go out of my way to type' is not a very truthful response. You tried to smear me with a person who is not me and who does not even respect me. You are playing 'Bernie supporters all the same' but this is not a good day for that ploy. You went out of your way to say that, then you say you don't care about what you yourself dragged to the table hoping to make into a center piece.

See, I don't play those clique games you enjoy because I respect democracy and American voters. I call out bigots who say 'Bernie' and bigots who say 'Hillary' and anyone who does not do the same is just playing accomplice and proxy for the bigots.

People who don't give a shit don't comment at all. And you comment very much on DU.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
97. 1. He based his "revolution" on the age group
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:44 AM
Mar 2016

that hardly ever shows up to vote.

They love rallies, reddit, Facebook, online polls, bumper stickers and yard signs.

They hate registering to vote and showing up at the ballot box on primary day, go figure.

What if Bernie gave a revolution and nobody showed up?

2. He tried to bypass a whole section of the Untied States and the base voters of the democratic party. POC in the south.

We have seen and heard the insults and paternalism for months.

"Stockholm syndrome", "Confederate states", "Insert state state name..is a red state in the general so it doesn't count", etc.

3. Overpromising what a BS presidency would accomplish to a ridiculous level.

There's more but that's enough. And its just IMO if we are allowed to have one, on the Bernie Underground.

Loudestlib

(980 posts)
100. You probably don't remember but Hillary beat Obama with the popular vote.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:15 AM
Mar 2016

What was Obama doing wrong? (I expect zero replies.)

ananda

(28,783 posts)
103. Absolutely nothing!
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:28 AM
Mar 2016

He is doing everything right.

But the power elite, their dirty tricks and
smear campaign and lies, exacerbated
by the mainstream media, are making
sure that many voters with eiher low-
information or seeking bias confirmation
do not understand him or his message,
which by the way, is the only good and
right message of the entire campaign.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
105. Sanders is too dependent on the Millenial vote IMO.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 09:32 AM
Mar 2016

Sure he can go to college campuses, promise free education, free healthcare and a $15/hr. national minimum wage and get away with such pandering. But, the older the Democrat voter, the easier it is to see through Sanders' smoke and mirrors routine.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
117. He spent the past 50 years criticizing others and not building relationships
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:19 PM
Mar 2016

and as a consequence his upper limit in votes are people who are just like him: criticizers who cannot build a coalition with someone who disagrees slightly.

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