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Win or Lose, Bernie Sanders Has Changed America (Original Post) UglyGreed Mar 2016 OP
When or lose the power of his platform will continue to grow. ladjf Mar 2016 #1
The Democratic Primaries Have One Clear Loser: Third Way Centrism FreakinDJ Mar 2016 #5
Bernie Sanders has planted good seeds. FarPoint Mar 2016 #7
Yes, that's a great metaphor. Also, closeupready Mar 2016 #10
yes--we absolutely need a strong, elected, deliberating base. It's too much for one person. zazen Mar 2016 #20
Yes we do... FarPoint Mar 2016 #22
And politics. merrily Mar 2016 #2
+1. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #9
I don't see any evidence that Sanders has changed anything. We're still a center-right country. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #3
And Hillary will UglyGreed Mar 2016 #6
Big waves take a long time to form. ladjf Mar 2016 #8
I agree big waves take a long time to form. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #13
The changing racial demographic will not change it if they are sold the same bill of goods.... Armstead Mar 2016 #15
What do you mean by "access to these truths" ? Trust Buster Mar 2016 #16
If your screen name is sincere you already know this Armstead Mar 2016 #17
I agree with your well written post. But EVERYONE already has access to those truths. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #19
I disagree about access to the truth Armstead Mar 2016 #25
Sure people have busy lives but that's no excuse. The American people aren't seriously engaged. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #26
I'm not making excuses. It's just the nature of reality. That's why we have... Armstead Mar 2016 #28
We are not in disagreement on the topic of the "big wave" itself. ladjf Mar 2016 #24
I honestly don't know, at this point, whether Bernie winning (I hope) or losing will affect America djean111 Mar 2016 #4
We might not be able to make it over the finish line this year. ladjf Mar 2016 #11
I believe Bernie's movement will continue, whether he wins or loses. Elizabeth Warren already Cal33 Mar 2016 #21
I would love to see Bernie Sanders become active with PDA. FarPoint Mar 2016 #23
FOR THE BETTER. K&R Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #12
I'm SO glad you posted this Armstead Mar 2016 #14
Yes, Bernie and Elizabeth have started a movement that will grow and will survive Cal33 Mar 2016 #18
That won't be known one way or another for several decades hack89 Mar 2016 #27
 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
5. The Democratic Primaries Have One Clear Loser: Third Way Centrism
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:44 AM
Mar 2016
The Democratic Primaries Have One Clear Loser: Third Way Centrism

It’s worth taking a break from watching the implosion of the Republican Party to pay attention to intra-Democratic fighting. Liberal economics has had a pretty great run in the 2016 primary, and I’m optimistic about its chances going forward. I’m even more optimistic after reading this thrown-together op-ed from Jon Cowan, president of the centrist think tank Third Way, titled “3 Ways Hillary Clinton’s Super Tuesday Wins Upend Democratic Conventional Wisdom,” in which he tries to prove my optimism wrong.

Super Tuesday, to Cowan, shows that “the implications of Hillary Clinton’s winning streak are significant: Liberal populism can’t possibly be the future of the Democratic Party.” Even better for centrism, “Mrs. Clinton has not tacked left to beat Mr. Sanders; she is beating him because she has attacked his core premises.” (If Clinton goes on to lose in 2016, he’ll blame centrism for that loss, right?)

Young Voters Are Liberal

If anything stands out in the primary, it’s that young people are very liberal. Sanders has been winning them by overwhelming margins. And it makes sense. A 25-year-old voter right now was negative three years old when Michael Dukakis lost in 1988. They simply aren’t of an era in which the old Reagan battles are relevant. They don’t know that being a liberal (or a socialist!) is obviously a dirty thing in D.C. circles. A place like Third Way makes no sense to them. They’ve grown up in a world of war and economic stagnation, and they think a more expansive version of liberalism is crucial to challenging this. Polling work we’ve done here at Roosevelt shows that a robust liberal message is the best way to increase enthusiasm among these key groups, enthusiasm that will be necessary for the general election.


http://rooseveltinstitute.org/democratic-primaries-have-one-clear-loser-third-way-centrism/

FarPoint

(12,209 posts)
7. Bernie Sanders has planted good seeds.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:49 AM
Mar 2016

Now, organizations like PDA need to take the seeds sown and farm, grow a strong base to actually make changes in Congress and locally... To regain of social, health and racial diversity gains we lost with the GOP...

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
10. Yes, that's a great metaphor. Also,
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:53 AM
Mar 2016

his popularity grew out - in part - from Occupy Wall Street, demonstrating the power of liberal ideas.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
6. And Hillary will
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:48 AM
Mar 2016

carry that on since it was Bill and Hillary who had a great deal of influence in bringing us to this point.... It's just one more step to the right. Perhaps this why Bill encouraged Trump to run so Hillary's right center approach would be seen as progressive.........who can get things done.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
13. I agree big waves take a long time to form.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:55 AM
Mar 2016

Where we disagree is that you think that a 74 year old man will ride and be responsible for that wave. I believe the rapidly changing racial demographics in this country will be responsible for that wave.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
15. The changing racial demographic will not change it if they are sold the same bill of goods....
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:59 AM
Mar 2016

The issues at stake trandscend demographic category.

Unless EVERYONE is given access to these truths, and have political alternatives to the corrupt status quo in both parties, nothing will change.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
17. If your screen name is sincere you already know this
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:08 AM
Mar 2016

It is infinetly complex but can be summed up in a simple sentence or two.

As long as we allow a handful of large corporations and financial institutions to keep swallowing up competition, purchasing our government and politicians and screwing workers and consumers and all citizens -- we will never again have an economy in which the benefits of growth and prosperity are distributed fairly.

We will instead devolve into a New Gilded Age, and ultimately a much bigger social and economize collapse that will make 2008 look like a garden party.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
19. I agree with your well written post. But EVERYONE already has access to those truths.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:17 AM
Mar 2016

For instance, Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, worked closely with the progressive magazines of his day to convince the opposition's base that the Trusts were killing competition with their monopolistic power. Can you really see a President Sanders meeting with FOX, Limbaugh, Beck or Breitbart in the White House to seek their help in convincing the Republican base that special interests now own this country ? Hell, Democrats couldn't even convince Republicans to allow a vote on the Disclose Act which would have merely required PACS to disclose who gives them money.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
25. I disagree about access to the truth
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:00 PM
Mar 2016

Yes, people who are political junkies and/or heavily invested in issues can find out a lot.

But most people are too consumed with daily life and struggles to do much digging. They rely on both the Corporate Media and the Corporate Political Parties for information. That's not being judgemental. It's just the reality of human nature.

Plus, when you know the truth, but don't see any vehicle for representing real solutions in the political system, it leads to some combination of alienation, apathy and cynicism.

That's a big reason Sanders campaign has caught on as much as it has. His message, and the truths he is telling, resonates with a LOT of people, who finally see their own views and values being represented within the system....I would also add that a lot of people agree with Sanders, but will vote for Clinton for "pragmatic" reasons based on the media sculpted meme that she is the one who is more "electable."




 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
26. Sure people have busy lives but that's no excuse. The American people aren't seriously engaged.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:17 PM
Mar 2016

I think it was Ben Franklin that said that democracy is not a spectator sport. A recent study showed that only 42% of respondents could name the three branches of the Federal Government. I think the American people are woefully disengaged. I thought the 2008 financial fraud would awake the American people, especially middle class Republicans. But it didn't. Only time will tell if the fire that Sanders lit amongst Millenials will continue to burn strong after this 2016 cycle has passed. I'll have to see it first to believe it.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
28. I'm not making excuses. It's just the nature of reality. That's why we have...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:26 PM
Mar 2016

representative government.

People tend to go the "path of least resistance" not because they are self-centered or anything. I know plenty of well meaning intelligent people who don't have time of energy to go digging below the surface for information on issues after jobs, kids, paying bills and other personal pressures and commitments.

A relative minority are inclined to do that because of circumstance, personal interest or after being affected by an issue directly.

Also, no one can be an expert on everything. I'm a total moron on science, for example, so I have to choose to trust someone on the details of climate change.

The theoretical basis of representative government is to elect people we trust who will represent out own interests and values (ideology) and those of society. Those representatives have a responsibility to be honest, and explain the big picture.

The Democrats have not been doing their job. They could and should but they have chosen not to represent the left half of the spectrum. That's what needs to be changed.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
24. We are not in disagreement on the topic of the "big wave" itself.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:52 AM
Mar 2016

In my post, I didn't mean to make it sound like Bernie was the originator of the "wave". Only that at this point he has been on the front line describing the nature of the "wave". That description became the platform of values upon which he is running for President. He has done a great job of clearly defining
the goals toward success for ALL Americans. If he succeeded in being nominated and became President, I'm confident that he would "get the ball rolling" toward reversing the financial inequity that now prevails. And when his term is over, he would have done what's necessary to assure continuity of leadership.

There is no doubt that the "elephant in the room" of American politics is changes in racial demographics. In fact, it moves so rapidly that it can easily create more problems that it solves.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
4. I honestly don't know, at this point, whether Bernie winning (I hope) or losing will affect America
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:43 AM
Mar 2016

more. The newly politically aware are absolutely not fodder for the DNC processing plant. They do not see Hillary as an acceptable substitute for Bernie. The differences are too massive.

Should be interesting!

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
11. We might not be able to make it over the finish line this year.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:54 AM
Mar 2016

But the wave continues to Build.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
21. I believe Bernie's movement will continue, whether he wins or loses. Elizabeth Warren already
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:23 AM
Mar 2016

has her group of followers. To me, the two are so similar that they should join and become
one. My hope is that they will help our nation out of the gutter we are in, and bring real
Democracy back to America again. It will take time and effort, but it can be done.

FarPoint

(12,209 posts)
23. I would love to see Bernie Sanders become active with PDA.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:28 AM
Mar 2016

An activism source where changes have evolved from this very progressive organization.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
14. I'm SO glad you posted this
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:56 AM
Mar 2016

It was on my Facebook page but I couldn't figure out how to post it here.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
18. Yes, Bernie and Elizabeth have started a movement that will grow and will survive
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:12 AM
Mar 2016

them after they have retired from the political scene. They will bring
real Democracy back to America again.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
27. That won't be known one way or another for several decades
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:20 PM
Mar 2016

there is always a lot of ebb and flow in American society and politics.

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