2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumCamp Hillary can't hide from the fact that Sanders does way better against Trump than she does.
Bring up these polls - dozen of them now - and it's hilarious how they robotically respond with "You can't trust general election polls this far out. Mr. 538 says so. Oh, and math. Or not math. Whatever."
But there really is no getting away from the fact that every poll shows Bernie doing 7-10 points better than Hillary against Trump. Sure, they both win according to these polls, but her margin of victory against Trump is uncomfortably thin. The Hillary fans can't deal with this, so they tell us not to look at those polls. The sudden distrust of polling from the polling-addicted Hillary Camp seems more than a bit disingenuous.
On a closing note, if they were that sure Hillary had the nomination, couldn't they at least let us Bernie fans have this one little thing? It says a lot that they can't.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Wiping your bum if you run out of toilet paper.
They're pretty much useless.
revbones
(3,660 posts)You can bet though, that if she was polling better than Sanders, there'd be about a thousand posts about it from Hillary supporters saying it proves her electability argument.
It'd be nice if people just recognized the hypocrisy and avoided this sort of thing. Discrediting every source and item that isn't wholly positive to Hillary just supports the whole insult about it being a cult of personality. It does you guys no credit whatsoever and does nothing to further legitimate discourse.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... against Trump, you probably would see posts about it.
But that doesn't change the fact that these polls are useless, regardless of who posts about them and who doesn't.
revbones
(3,660 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)It has to do with human nature - supporters will always point to polls that favour their candidate.
But doing so does not validate a poll's findings as being accurate, nor does it make them more credible.
The only polls that count right now are the ones at which voters are casting their ballots. And far more of them are casting those ballots for HRC than for BS.
revbones
(3,660 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... that the same BSers who dismissed scientific polls last summer (when Bernie's numbers started to stagnate) as being manipulated in HRC's favour, or the result of "corporate math", and insisted that on-line polls were more accurate, are now fully embracing THIS particular poll.
(Actually, I'm not surprised at all.)
In other words, ALL the polls that showed Bernie falling behind HRC were WRONG, but these polls showing him beating Trump are RIGHT.
Got it!
revbones
(3,660 posts)I've got to give it to you guys, it's like you are wearing those Wonder Woman bracelets or something. Nothing seems to stick. It's always someone else or you've got some weird example that just proves it's always somehow Bernie Sanders supporters that are wrong about everything.
Nice.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... Deflection!!!
The only person "deflecting" here is you. I thought you would have noticed that by now.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Your hypocrisy is stunning.
jillan
(39,451 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)I have been using the short forms "BSers" and "HRCers" here for months.
If you want to "make a funny" out of people's initials, feel free.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)Since you deflect so well.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)The only polls BSS believe are ones that are favorable to Bernie. The others are all fake and manipulated
dchill
(38,320 posts)Let's see if Hillary can. Your post is just so much flatulence.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)And Camp Bernie can't hide from the fact that you can't win a Democratic primary being in the toilet with Black voters. So, carry on.
jfern
(5,204 posts)538 has been an epic joke this election
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)I'm talking about the kind of things that the Democrats would never attack him on, because we don't care about.
BUT, the repubs totally care that he's not christian (and agnostic at that), a self-declared socialist (don't worry, they won't pause to listen to any rebuttal about being a democratic socialist once they get the hammer and sickle image in their heads), wants to raise taxes, pro pot legalization, and far left on pretty much every issue they care about.
It really doesn't make me happy to say that his numbers would plummet in just a few weeks. I would love a country that would elect such a person (maybe a bit younger, more ethnic and more female than Bernie...but otherwise similar!).
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)as a Jew I find them icky by the way.
And red baiting, you kidding me right? There have been some from HRC herself during a debate (That comment about the Sandinistas)...
On the other hand, the artful smears from Sanders, which has run a pretty clean campaign by American standards, and HRC supporters have been screaming about... well if they are complaining about that, I cannot wait for Trump. He already started... and it will not be gentle or funny....
blue neen
(12,306 posts)Agree that Trump will not be gentle or funny, but there is an absolute gold mine of damaging information on The Donald---and it will come out.
The Republicans have not gone after Bernie at all. A few highly coded attacks is nothing compared to what he would face.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)you will wish for the clean campaign that your favored candidate did not respond accordingly.
Regardless, I cannot wait to vote in November in another American pretend election. But I also cannot wait for Trump to really start the attacks in earnest. Because I am not the only that expects her not to handle it well. The only problem is the future of the country, but hey... what a show!!!
By the way, I also expect either of these two, HRC or Trump, to do butkis about things like Climate Change when all is said and done. My nieces and nephews thank you by the way.
blue neen
(12,306 posts)?
And, you can't wait for Donald Trump to say even nastier and crazier things than he already does? Why?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and you and your friends will complaint and some of us will just have a good laugh.
Elections can be cruel, but at this point better learn to laugh. In fact, we do it often in this household anymore.
And given the stakes, history will not be kind (assuming the species survives), to first world nations like the US. It is called the long view of history.
blue neen
(12,306 posts)?
Um, you don't know me or my friends.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Then think fracking for example
blue neen
(12,306 posts)I'm quite acquainted with fracking, though, as I reside in Pennsylvania and have been very actively involved in the fight for local regulations.
Pennsylvania has not had it's primary yet....which means I also haven't voted yet. And when, I do it will be for the candidate who at that time has the best chance of beating the Republicans, in both our Presidential and Senatorial Primaries.
Since you want to laugh when Donald Trump fires up his hate machine towards Hillary Clinton, I'll assume you feel Bernie Sanders no longer has a chance.
As for the "nieces and nephew" you mentioned, I wish them the best of luck. My own children are always foremost in my thoughts.
Over and out.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)or perhaps... whatever,
Who I vote for is my business by the way, and it is between myself and my pillow, but this is the future, by the way.
blue neen
(12,306 posts)Impedimentus
(898 posts)It's the nature of too many there. Republican-medium comes to mind.
FEEL THE BERN - 2016
griffi94
(3,731 posts)now all he needs to do is win the nomination and he'll be president.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Of course not. There are many different reasons to support one candidate over another, but polls aren't normally one of them. Besides, among likely voters Clinton actually does slightly better than Sanders:
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders#!hiddensubpops=A,RV&estimate=custom
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton#!hiddensubpops=A,RV&estimate=custom
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)1) Way too early for these to mean much.
2) The GOP has yet to focus their attacks on him.. if they ever do it will get ugly.
3) I suspect many of those polled are Bernie supporters and are probable responding with wont vote or have not made up my mind. That will certainly skew the results.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,283 posts)She only has to do better than Trump (or Cruz, or Romney, or Bush).
As long as she gets 50.1% of the delegates, then 50.1% of the electors, she gets to be president.