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reformist2

(9,841 posts)
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:41 AM Mar 2016

Camp Hillary can't hide from the fact that Sanders does way better against Trump than she does.

Bring up these polls - dozen of them now - and it's hilarious how they robotically respond with "You can't trust general election polls this far out. Mr. 538 says so. Oh, and math. Or not math. Whatever."

But there really is no getting away from the fact that every poll shows Bernie doing 7-10 points better than Hillary against Trump. Sure, they both win according to these polls, but her margin of victory against Trump is uncomfortably thin. The Hillary fans can't deal with this, so they tell us not to look at those polls. The sudden distrust of polling from the polling-addicted Hillary Camp seems more than a bit disingenuous.

On a closing note, if they were that sure Hillary had the nomination, couldn't they at least let us Bernie fans have this one little thing? It says a lot that they can't.

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Camp Hillary can't hide from the fact that Sanders does way better against Trump than she does. (Original Post) reformist2 Mar 2016 OP
General election polls this far out are only good for one thing Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #1
Sure. revbones Mar 2016 #3
If HRC were polling better than Sanders ... NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #8
So the hypocrisy is ok then? nt revbones Mar 2016 #9
It has nothing to do with hypocrisy. NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #13
And opposing followers will discredit polls, etc.... nt revbones Mar 2016 #14
Well, I have always found it surprising ... NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #15
10 points for deflection revbones Mar 2016 #16
Apparently, tonight's secret word is ... NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #17
Sure. revbones Mar 2016 #19
BSers - oh aren't you just adorable? jillan Mar 2016 #18
I don't know what you're on about. NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #25
+ 1 JoePhilly Mar 2016 #36
We can't hide the fact she has gotten many more votes than Sanders has gotten. Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #2
You must be wearing those wonder woman bracelets revbones Mar 2016 #5
Bye Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #35
And yet Bernie can't even win the nomination redstateblues Mar 2016 #4
Nobody has won the nomination. dchill Mar 2016 #10
Who needs to hide?? He can't beat Hillary. Lil Missy Mar 2016 #6
LOL.....exactly!!!!!! UMTerp01 Mar 2016 #11
+ 1 JoePhilly Mar 2016 #37
538 said not to take Trump seriously jfern Mar 2016 #7
Even if you totally trust the polls, you have to admit that there have been no attacks on Bernie. anotherproletariat Mar 2016 #12
actually there have been plenty of highly coded antisemitic attacks nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #20
...and there have been plenty of blatant sexist attacks on Hillary Clinton for at least 25 years now blue neen Mar 2016 #22
My dear, I cannot wait for Trump nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #24
Your nieces and nephews thank me for what? blue neen Mar 2016 #27
Because he will nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #28
Again, your nieces and nephews will thank me for what? blue neen Mar 2016 #29
Listen nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #30
That video is over an hour long, and I'm not going to watch it right now. blue neen Mar 2016 #31
It is not like you could not make time for it later nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #32
Well stated. blue neen Mar 2016 #21
Camp Hillary can and does hide from facts. Impedimentus Mar 2016 #23
Bernie is great griffi94 Mar 2016 #26
Would you support Hillary if she did better in the polls than Sanders? Onlooker Mar 2016 #33
He is our best hope in the GE - K&R for truth Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #34
I am highly skeptical of those polls. DCBob Mar 2016 #38
She doesn't have to do better than Sanders in the General. JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2016 #39
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
1. General election polls this far out are only good for one thing
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:43 AM
Mar 2016

Wiping your bum if you run out of toilet paper.

They're pretty much useless.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
3. Sure.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:47 AM
Mar 2016

You can bet though, that if she was polling better than Sanders, there'd be about a thousand posts about it from Hillary supporters saying it proves her electability argument.

It'd be nice if people just recognized the hypocrisy and avoided this sort of thing. Discrediting every source and item that isn't wholly positive to Hillary just supports the whole insult about it being a cult of personality. It does you guys no credit whatsoever and does nothing to further legitimate discourse.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
8. If HRC were polling better than Sanders ...
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:57 AM
Mar 2016

... against Trump, you probably would see posts about it.

But that doesn't change the fact that these polls are useless, regardless of who posts about them and who doesn't.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
13. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:05 AM
Mar 2016

It has to do with human nature - supporters will always point to polls that favour their candidate.

But doing so does not validate a poll's findings as being accurate, nor does it make them more credible.

The only polls that count right now are the ones at which voters are casting their ballots. And far more of them are casting those ballots for HRC than for BS.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
15. Well, I have always found it surprising ...
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:15 AM
Mar 2016

... that the same BSers who dismissed scientific polls last summer (when Bernie's numbers started to stagnate) as being manipulated in HRC's favour, or the result of "corporate math", and insisted that on-line polls were more accurate, are now fully embracing THIS particular poll.

(Actually, I'm not surprised at all.)

In other words, ALL the polls that showed Bernie falling behind HRC were WRONG, but these polls showing him beating Trump are RIGHT.

Got it!

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
16. 10 points for deflection
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:17 AM
Mar 2016

I've got to give it to you guys, it's like you are wearing those Wonder Woman bracelets or something. Nothing seems to stick. It's always someone else or you've got some weird example that just proves it's always somehow Bernie Sanders supporters that are wrong about everything.

Nice.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
17. Apparently, tonight's secret word is ...
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:33 AM
Mar 2016

... Deflection!!!

The only person "deflecting" here is you. I thought you would have noticed that by now.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
25. I don't know what you're on about.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:48 AM
Mar 2016

I have been using the short forms "BSers" and "HRCers" here for months.

If you want to "make a funny" out of people's initials, feel free.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
4. And yet Bernie can't even win the nomination
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:47 AM
Mar 2016

The only polls BSS believe are ones that are favorable to Bernie. The others are all fake and manipulated

 

UMTerp01

(1,048 posts)
11. LOL.....exactly!!!!!!
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:01 AM
Mar 2016

And Camp Bernie can't hide from the fact that you can't win a Democratic primary being in the toilet with Black voters. So, carry on.

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
12. Even if you totally trust the polls, you have to admit that there have been no attacks on Bernie.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:02 AM
Mar 2016

I'm talking about the kind of things that the Democrats would never attack him on, because we don't care about.

BUT, the repubs totally care that he's not christian (and agnostic at that), a self-declared socialist (don't worry, they won't pause to listen to any rebuttal about being a democratic socialist once they get the hammer and sickle image in their heads), wants to raise taxes, pro pot legalization, and far left on pretty much every issue they care about.

It really doesn't make me happy to say that his numbers would plummet in just a few weeks. I would love a country that would elect such a person (maybe a bit younger, more ethnic and more female than Bernie...but otherwise similar!).

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
20. actually there have been plenty of highly coded antisemitic attacks
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:38 AM
Mar 2016

as a Jew I find them icky by the way.

And red baiting, you kidding me right? There have been some from HRC herself during a debate (That comment about the Sandinistas)...

On the other hand, the artful smears from Sanders, which has run a pretty clean campaign by American standards, and HRC supporters have been screaming about... well if they are complaining about that, I cannot wait for Trump. He already started... and it will not be gentle or funny....

blue neen

(12,306 posts)
22. ...and there have been plenty of blatant sexist attacks on Hillary Clinton for at least 25 years now
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:43 AM
Mar 2016

Agree that Trump will not be gentle or funny, but there is an absolute gold mine of damaging information on The Donald---and it will come out.

The Republicans have not gone after Bernie at all. A few highly coded attacks is nothing compared to what he would face.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
24. My dear, I cannot wait for Trump
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:48 AM
Mar 2016

you will wish for the clean campaign that your favored candidate did not respond accordingly.

Regardless, I cannot wait to vote in November in another American pretend election. But I also cannot wait for Trump to really start the attacks in earnest. Because I am not the only that expects her not to handle it well. The only problem is the future of the country, but hey... what a show!!!

By the way, I also expect either of these two, HRC or Trump, to do butkis about things like Climate Change when all is said and done. My nieces and nephews thank you by the way.

blue neen

(12,306 posts)
27. Your nieces and nephews thank me for what?
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:57 AM
Mar 2016

?

And, you can't wait for Donald Trump to say even nastier and crazier things than he already does? Why?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
28. Because he will
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:00 AM
Mar 2016

and you and your friends will complaint and some of us will just have a good laugh.



Elections can be cruel, but at this point better learn to laugh. In fact, we do it often in this household anymore.

And given the stakes, history will not be kind (assuming the species survives), to first world nations like the US. It is called the long view of history.

blue neen

(12,306 posts)
31. That video is over an hour long, and I'm not going to watch it right now.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:16 AM
Mar 2016

I'm quite acquainted with fracking, though, as I reside in Pennsylvania and have been very actively involved in the fight for local regulations.

Pennsylvania has not had it's primary yet....which means I also haven't voted yet. And when, I do it will be for the candidate who at that time has the best chance of beating the Republicans, in both our Presidential and Senatorial Primaries.

Since you want to laugh when Donald Trump fires up his hate machine towards Hillary Clinton, I'll assume you feel Bernie Sanders no longer has a chance.

As for the "nieces and nephew" you mentioned, I wish them the best of luck. My own children are always foremost in my thoughts.

Over and out.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
32. It is not like you could not make time for it later
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:18 AM
Mar 2016

or perhaps... whatever,

Who I vote for is my business by the way, and it is between myself and my pillow, but this is the future, by the way.

Impedimentus

(898 posts)
23. Camp Hillary can and does hide from facts.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:43 AM
Mar 2016

It's the nature of too many there. Republican-medium comes to mind.

FEEL THE BERN - 2016

 

Onlooker

(5,636 posts)
33. Would you support Hillary if she did better in the polls than Sanders?
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:35 AM
Mar 2016

Of course not. There are many different reasons to support one candidate over another, but polls aren't normally one of them. Besides, among likely voters Clinton actually does slightly better than Sanders:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders#!hiddensubpops=A,RV&estimate=custom

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton#!hiddensubpops=A,RV&estimate=custom

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
38. I am highly skeptical of those polls.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 09:02 AM
Mar 2016

1) Way too early for these to mean much.
2) The GOP has yet to focus their attacks on him.. if they ever do it will get ugly.
3) I suspect many of those polled are Bernie supporters and are probable responding with wont vote or have not made up my mind. That will certainly skew the results.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,283 posts)
39. She doesn't have to do better than Sanders in the General.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 09:09 AM
Mar 2016

She only has to do better than Trump (or Cruz, or Romney, or Bush).

As long as she gets 50.1% of the delegates, then 50.1% of the electors, she gets to be president.

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